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All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Printable Version

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RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-08-2021

(10-08-2021, 10:04 AM)LulzKiller Wrote:
(10-08-2021, 08:17 AM)robkelk Wrote: Bread and Circuses has a noreallife tag, giving the reason "By definition controversial and depressing."

Is this something that we inherited from TV Tropes and should jettison, or do we need to get rid of everything listed in Category:Depressing Tropes? We can't have it both ways -- either we list depressing things or we don't.

First question: Do we already have a policy regarding this?

Second question: If we don't, do we want to ask the Tropers whether they want one?

I think the easier solution is to just keep NRL for the controversial aspect due to the fact that it would descend into political shitflinging/conspiratorial nonsense (they're trying to keep you pacified bruh open ur 3rd eye). I agree that something being depressing isn't a reason to avoid troping, we'd have to remove Tear Jerker if we did.

Yeah, that works. Done.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-08-2021

Do we have the Odagiri effect as a trope yet? If we do, what do we call it?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Bob Schroeck - 10-08-2021

Estrogen Brigade?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-08-2021

That would work.


Just noticed that we never actually asked for opinions on merging "Lover and Beloved" into "Sexy Mentor" three years ago. I've done that now on both pages, and pointed to the existing discussion (what there is of it).

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Black Aeronaut - 10-09-2021

(10-08-2021, 10:57 AM)robkelk Wrote:
(10-08-2021, 10:04 AM)LulzKiller Wrote:
(10-08-2021, 08:17 AM)robkelk Wrote: Bread and Circuses has a noreallife tag, giving the reason "By definition controversial and depressing."

Is this something that we inherited from TV Tropes and should jettison, or do we need to get rid of everything listed in CategoryBig Grinepressing Tropes? We can't have it both ways -- either we list depressing things or we don't.

First question: Do we already have a policy regarding this?

Second question: If we don't, do we want to ask the Tropers whether they want one?

I think the easier solution is to just keep NRL for the controversial aspect due to the fact that it would descend into political shitflinging/conspiratorial nonsense (they're trying to keep you pacified bruh open ur 3rd eye). I agree that something being depressing isn't a reason to avoid troping, we'd have to remove Tear Jerker if we did.

Yeah, that works. Done.

That said, I don't think that a YMMV subpage would be out of the question.  Case in point: during a brief skimming, Doctor Doom as an example came up.

YMMV because in most incarnations, Doom loves his people and he loves his country.  The only reason he is a dictator at all is exactly to prevent the Bread and Circuses scenario, or worse.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-09-2021

Anybody know why we can't have DPL or DPL3 any more?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - LulzKiller - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 10:34 AM)robkelk Wrote: Anybody know why we can't have DPL or DPL3 any more?

DPL1 doesn't work with current MediaWiki. 

DPL3 might be this: https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T8099

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 10:40 AM)LulzKiller Wrote:
(10-09-2021, 10:34 AM)robkelk Wrote: Anybody know why we can't have DPL or DPL3 any more?

DPL1 doesn't work with current MediaWiki. 

DPL3 might be this: https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T8099

Patched two days after it was reported... but the option is still grayed out.

For now, I've put a workaround in place for the Works Needing Pages list on the Community Portal and commented out that particular DPL list. (Bonus: the workaround sorts the list alphabetically.)

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - GethN7 - 10-09-2021

Rob, I've already backed up all the current Navbar pages (and related pages it links to) as an offline XML dump. I can try importing importing updated stuff from Wikipedia to fix our current one showing the error text, and I can rollback if need be.

Also, I'd like to explain something, in case it wasn't clear.

When you download templates, typically you have to check the box in Special:Export to grab all pages connected to said template, else it will be broken on arrival. One of the reasons my earlier attempt to fix things went bad is because of this. I should be able to avoid anything that cannot be quickly rolled back if you deem it unsuitable, and when I do import the updated files, I will include an edit reason that will note which files need reverted if something goes wrong to the import to minimize any potential issues.

Is that acceptable?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-10-2021

(10-09-2021, 07:20 PM)GethN7 Wrote: Rob, I've already backed up all the current Navbar pages (and related pages it links to) as an offline XML dump. I can try importing importing updated stuff from Wikipedia to fix our current one showing the error text, and I can rollback if need be.

Also, I'd like to explain something, in case it wasn't clear.

When you download templates, typically you have to check the box in Special:Export to grab all pages connected to said template, else it will be broken on arrival. One of the reasons my earlier attempt to fix things went bad is because of this. I should be able to avoid anything that cannot be quickly rolled back if you deem it unsuitable, and when I do import the updated files, I will include an edit reason that will note which files need reverted if something goes wrong to the import to minimize any potential issues.

Is that acceptable?

That's fine, but it doesn't address my concern. What I asked for is a timetable:

(10-04-2021, 05:45 PM)robkelk Wrote: Let's treat this the way we should have treated it all along: as a software upgrade project.

Issue #1: Undesired text is appearing in infoboxes.

Issue #2: The patch applied to resolve Issue #1 caused images and headers in infoboxes to change alignment from centered to left-aligned.

Question #1: Can Issue #2 be resolved by re-applying the patch to resolve Issue #1 and then modifying that patch?

Question #2: If the answer to Question #1 is "yes", does the person who applies the patch to resolve Issue #1 know what needs to be done to resolve Issue #2?

Question #3: If the answer to Question #2 is "yes", what is the timetable for resolving Issue #2?

Exactly what, in the specific, do you want to do, and in what order?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-10-2021

I just spent some time cleaning up All The Tropes:How to Write An Example.

We have a very long list of "don'ts". How many of these can we rephrase so that they aren't negative, and which ones need to remain as absolute prohibitions?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-10-2021

The character is about to die. He's at zero hit points. He's not long for this mortal coil.

What the heck do we call this trope?

EDIT: Never mind - I found it. "Almost-Dead Guy"

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-10-2021

Out of all of our annual award navboxes, the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor appears to be in the best shape - it only has five redlinks as I type this.

I'd like to go for zero... but I don't have time right now.

Anybody have time to create Creator pages for any of [Jonathan Winters, Carl Reiner, Bob Newhart, Lily Tomlin, or Julia Louis-Dreyfus? Not only would creating the pages turn their navbox links blue, it would turn their Names to Know in Comedy links blue as well.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - GethN7 - 10-10-2021

(10-10-2021, 09:18 AM)robkelk Wrote:
(10-09-2021, 07:20 PM)GethN7 Wrote: Rob, I've already backed up all the current Navbar pages (and related pages it links to) as an offline XML dump. I can try importing importing updated stuff from Wikipedia to fix our current one showing the error text, and I can rollback if need be.

Also, I'd like to explain something, in case it wasn't clear.

When you download templates, typically you have to check the box in Special:Export to grab all pages connected to said template, else it will be broken on arrival. One of the reasons my earlier attempt to fix things went bad is because of this. I should be able to avoid anything that cannot be quickly rolled back if you deem it unsuitable, and when I do import the updated files, I will include an edit reason that will note which files need reverted if something goes wrong to the import to minimize any potential issues.

Is that acceptable?

That's fine, but it doesn't address my concern. What I asked for is a timetable:

(10-04-2021, 05:45 PM)robkelk Wrote: Let's treat this the way we should have treated it all along: as a software upgrade project.

Issue #1: Undesired text is appearing in infoboxes.

Issue #2: The patch applied to resolve Issue #1 caused images and headers in infoboxes to change alignment from centered to left-aligned.

Question #1: Can Issue #2 be resolved by re-applying the patch to resolve Issue #1 and then modifying that patch?

Question #2: If the answer to Question #1 is "yes", does the person who applies the patch to resolve Issue #1 know what needs to be done to resolve Issue #2?

Question #3: If the answer to Question #2 is "yes", what is the timetable for resolving Issue #2?

Exactly what, in the specific, do you want to do, and in what order?


Very well, timetable is:

1. Backup current broken templates to offline XML in case fix goes poorly. (Done)

2. Export improved version from Wikipedia.

3. Import to ATT.

4. Make sure fix did not break anything.

5. If fix broke something, rollback fix to files saved prior.

Yes, this is easily fixed by me, and can be rolled back if something goes wrong, either by me or anyone else, all imported files will be marked by an edit reason stating they need to be rolled back if they broke something so any new breakage, if any, can be quickly reverted.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-10-2021

Looks good to me. No objections.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - GethN7 - 10-10-2021

(10-10-2021, 01:33 PM)robkelk Wrote: Looks good to me. No objections.

Fix implemented, all changed files:

Apparently, we were also missing a few key templates for collapsing templates, this should fix that. Still see some issues with the translate tags, but it may take some time for the internal cache of the servers to catch up so we can be sure there were no issues, but nothing has broken thus far. If it does, above list can be reverted if need be.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-10-2021

(10-10-2021, 03:28 PM)GethN7 Wrote: Apparently, we were also missing a few key templates for collapsing templates, this should fix that.

It also helps if we set navboxes to "state = {{{state|autocollapse}}}" - that one was my fault.

All the Academy Award, Golden Globe Award, and BAFTA Award templates are now set to autocollapse - we'll see what happens once the cache clears. (The English Patient is still showing them uncollapsed, but I just changed the templates a few minutes ago.)

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Umbire - 10-12-2021

Regarding this unpatrolled edit - have we gotten a copypaste check on it?

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - LulzKiller - 10-12-2021

(10-12-2021, 09:53 AM)Umbire Wrote: Regarding this unpatrolled edit - have we gotten a copypaste check on it?

Already cross-referenced with TVT at the time, and IIRC it only had one line or so that was similar; the rest was distinct enough (the examples were also rather distinct). Moderated edits don't become patrolled because I don't think the two extensions interact at all.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-12-2021

Amazing how few disagreements we discovered as to whether pages should have no real life examples... until we got to the Sex Tropes.

List in progress here

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Umbire - 10-12-2021

(10-12-2021, 10:13 AM)LulzKiller Wrote:
(10-12-2021, 09:53 AM)Umbire Wrote: Regarding this unpatrolled edit - have we gotten a copypaste check on it?

Already cross-referenced with TVT at the time, and IIRC it only had one line or so that was similar; the rest was distinct enough (the examples were also rather distinct). Moderated edits don't become patrolled because I don't think the two extensions interact at all.

Bet. Just wanted to be sure before I marked it as patrolled.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Umbire - 10-12-2021

Got these errors while trying to get a start on the disambiguation for the fic "A Hero".

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - robkelk - 10-13-2021

As did I while cleaning up some redirects. The issue appears to be resolved now.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - Bob Schroeck - 10-13-2021

I still see these everyone once in a while, apparently at random. They rarely repeat.

RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII - LulzKiller - 10-13-2021

I add complete monsters took from https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MoralEventHorizon/SuperMarioLogan to add a CM example to a YMMV page.

I nicked one of LT's responses to a Copyright violation and changed a few words.