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+--- Thread: Nanoha StrikerS (/showthread.php?tid=8714)
Re: RE: Caro - ECSNorway - 05-09-2007
Hmmm. Expanding on that thought.
Whenever we see Nanoha or Fate use their cartridge-system, we see them using the standard, Mid-type, round rune-circles.
Theory: They are in fact using a hybrid of Mid-type magic boosted and fueled by the Velka cartridge, but not actually building their spells Velka-style.
Subaru, on the other hand, is definitely using Velka-type for the gauntlet - we see both cartridge use and the triangular rune-circle (I've got to find a better term than that), but the skates seem to be Mid-type (and I believe we see a round rune-circle when she activates them).
Theory: Subaru may be the first to fully make use of both Velka and Midchildan mage-technologies, as opposed to Nanoha and Fate's dabbling hybrid setup.
Thoughts?--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
Re: RE: Caro - Valles - 05-10-2007
Quote:IIUC, the Gauntlet is one of a pair inherited from her parents - her sister is using the other one.
Theory: Subaru may be the first to fully make use of both Velka and Midchildan mage-technologies, as opposed to Nanoha and Fate's dabbling hybrid setup.
The original skates, she designed and built herself.
The way her equipment all shows up as part of the same sequence might or might not indicate that they've both been integrated into the full 'Mach Caliber.' I'm inclined to think that she only has one device now, because, from her reaction, its displayed personality didn't exist in a meaningful sense until the 6th Division tech people got ahold of it... like she hadn't gotten even a hint from either of its predecessors. That'd make it a different sort of hybrid from Bardiche and Raging Heart, where, rather than using the same components in different ways, it has two full sets and switches between them according to the needed function. Like comparing a Harrier to a Yak-38, or a hovercraft to a swimming car.
Eh. We'll see.
Ja, -n
===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Re: RE: Caro - Berk - 05-10-2007
It seems to function something like this...
The technician for Section 6 tells Subaru that they refined dimensional storage, allowing Mach Caliber to store her gauntlet. I presume that before this, Subaru was lugging the poor thing around the hard way
Subaru herself uses a technique called 'Modern Velka.' My best guess is that someone developed this style of magic to facilitate the training of Velka-style Knights without using master-apprentice programs like the Saint Church used to train Acous. Considering that Hayate's formal title is not 'Knight' but 'Mage Knight' she might be a likely candidate for the person responsible for this. (But this is mostly speculation on what information we have been given so far. The proliferation of Velka Knights in the TSAB did not start until AFTER Hayate volanteered herself.)- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Re: RE: Caro - ECSNorway - 05-10-2007
Also, just to correct my previous mis-remembering...
I just re-watched the first ep of StrikerS.
Subaru uses a Velka-type circle, and at one point openly mentions that she's specialized - she can't do illusions or flight, so she's got to just go in and get the enemy with one shot while Tia distracts it.
Tia, on the other hand, uses a Mid-type circle, and some very versatile spell-slinging - invisibility, illusionary duplicates, and a Shooter apparently cast /without her device/ - she'd just used it as a decoy - although she may've used the ID to prep the spell first.
Rein also uses a Velka-type circle, we can see it in white under Nanoha's net at the 'crash' at the end. It's not terribly clear how independent she is, magically, from Hayate...--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
Re: RE: Caro - Berk - 05-10-2007
Rein is sufficiently independent that she has her own Mage ranking.- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Intelligent Devices - Valles - 05-14-2007
Even granted that Subaru and Tia are 'merely' talented rather than prodigies, the degree of difference between Mach Caliber and Cross Mirage's original hand made forms and their post-upgrade ones, given that they were being built in their owners' early teens, makes it extremely unlikely, in my mind, that either of the first two devices we met were created by their original users.
Bardiche is fairly easy to explain; given that I understand Precia as having been one of Midchildia's leading mages before she lost it, it'd be perfectly reasonable for her to have put him together to make her tool more effective or just to have had him lying around for one reason or another.
But what about Raising Heart (*stuffs the little voice yelling "Raging! RAGING!" back into its box*)?
My theory is that civilian mages usually have devices, too... and that they buy them. From dealerships. Professional like. Raising Heart was one of your coming-of-age gifts from proud parents - the Midchildian equivalent of a young man's first car.
Given that she's apparently able to keep up with Nanoha, when we know that it's possible for a mage to power spells that at least some devices can't take, I suspect the lady was a top-of-the-line model, too.
Ja, -n
===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Re: Intelligent Devices - Berk - 05-14-2007
From the drama CD's....
Intelligent Devices are rare, Storage Devices (such as Durandal, Song To You and others) are the norm. Storage Devices retain pre-arranged spell formulas for the user where Intelligent Devices retain entire spell libraries and can devise new magics on the fly. Interestingly, a Storage Device operating within its area of optimization is actually faster and more powerful than an Intelligent Device... which encourages mages to get creative when working with a Device. (Remember how Chrono demonstrated dozens of different variations of cutting magic when he was using S2U?)
Intelligent Devices carry a slight connotation of being more difficult to use to their utmost potential, because they encourage 'laziness' in a mage. (Remember Teana's comment about needing to not rely on Cross Mirage too much?) Nanoha trained constantly when she was younger to overcome any reliance on Raging Heart for spell design, which means that when she and RH work together they're even MORE dangerous.
Raging Heart is a mystery. She was found by the Scrya Clan on a dig. She could actually be a low ranked Lost Logia and we'd never know.
Bardiche was purchased 'at great cost' by Precia's Familiar for Fate's use during her initial training. There's the remote possibility some part of said familiar remains in Bardiche's systems, which would explain the cat's eye that often appears in the crystal.- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Re: Intelligent Devices - Valles - 05-15-2007
Hm. I'd seen RH's origin described that way in fanfic, but not known that there was canon backing for it. Ah, well.
*fidget*
Oh, and yesy has ep six up.
And I don't have my internet back yet... I'm internally debating the morality of using the campus computer lab to take a look at the direct download version - I figure maybe an hour or two before I break down and do it anyway. Bad idea/don't worry about it, d'y'all think?
EDIT: On rereading... sort of like the distinction between sorcerers and wizards as portrayed in D&D?
Ja, -n
===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Re: Intelligent Devices - Valles - 05-15-2007
Uni comp doesn't speak fansub codec. AAAAAAAAAAAAAIGGHHHHHHHH!!!
*grump*, -n
===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Re: Intelligent Devices - The Hunterminator - 05-15-2007
Well, I've just watched episode 6, and it's a good one. A lot of development and information comes to light, and some pretty good questions along with it.
The notable things I've spotted in the episode are,
1: The glimpse in Elio's past is dark, even though you only have everyone's reaction to where he was raised to judge from.
2: What seems to be the power source for the gadgets inspires several grim theories.
3: Mystery girl from intro is almost certainly genetically engineered and a dragon summoner. She also has an unknown connection to Carol if their mostly identical devices are any indication.
Re: Sorcerer vs Wizard - Berk - 05-15-2007
The distinction isn't quite so precise.
An Intelligent Device sacrifices top end speed for the ability to think independently and offer up new spell designs. A Storage Device doesn't have to worry about developing new spells, it just worries about slinging what spells it does know as quickly as possible.
This is why Nanoha was able to rapidly develop spells by observing other people, Raging Heart was basically robbing them blind and putting her own spin on them.- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Re: Sorcerer vs Wizard - CattyNebulart - 05-15-2007
A storage device has no personality, unlike an inteligent device. That is why with an inteligent device there is a possibility of a personality conflict whih lowers the output of the devie. My guess is that Yuuno and Raising Heart did not get along all that well magically speaking, which is why Raising Heart is that much more powerfull in Nanoha's hands.
Then there are unison devices like Rein-chan for whom it's acctually rare to find a matching master.
Fairly sure that the wikipedia article on this is pure cannon:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mag...erminology
And is it just me who is annoyed by Rein-chan's annoyingly high pitched voice?
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Re: Sorcerer vs Wizard - The Hunterminator - 05-15-2007
Quote:On one hand, I can understand that they wanted to make her cute, and she IS small so a small voice is logical.
And is it just me who is annoyed by Rein-chan's annoyingly high pitched voice?
But you're right, that voice is annoying, makes it impossible to take Reinforce seriously and makes my brain go "Bwah?" whenever the fact that she outranks a lot of people in the show is mentionned.
Re: Rein-tan - Berk - 05-15-2007
Bah, I love Yukana's work as Reinforce's voice.
It's impossible to portray Reinforce Zwei wholly seriously since there's something inherently silly about a Master Sgt who stands at a mighty 7 inches in height.
She's going to be small and squeaky. It comes with the territory.- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Re: Rein-tan - HoagieOfDoom - 05-15-2007
I don't particularly mind it myself; I just find myself chuckling whenever she talks.*********
Touched By His Noodly Appendage
www.venganza.org
Re: Rein-tan - Berk - 05-15-2007
You can really tell Yukana's having fun.
(Even if she has been typecast as slightly surly silver haired girls.)- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Is Nanoha t3h Sechs? Yes. Yes, she is. - Valles - 05-16-2007
So, one week of frustration and one new fucking OS later, here I am, properly alive again at last.
Ah, well. At least I've got a good inagural product.
I age rather than her apparent one is always going to be a hoot.
I'm not sure why I find 'casual' clothes so much more affecting than outright fan-service outfits, but at least it's consistent. So, yeah. Yay, Fate! *fans himself*
Cross Mirage now takes magazines, rather than breech-loading. Makes sense. Also makes a good way to demonstrate that Nanoha isn't any more merciful on her students than she is on herself - check out the pile of empties Tea's standing in.
Subaru's ancestors? Hmm. Raises questions about the Bureau's lifespan, and yet more about the nature of its contacts with Earth.
"Don't pet me!" Boy, life is hard for you, isn't it, Vita-san? ^_^
And in the preview... oooooh. Dressy-dresses. Nummy.
In other news, I was rereading Academy Blues and the investigator guy sparked a thought: what if the political jealousy and such that sparked the personal limiter system isn't actually of or by individuals, but between the TSAB's sponsor nations?
Ja, -n
===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Re: Is Nanoha t3h Sechs? Yes. Yes, she is. - Berk - 05-16-2007
Cross Mirage accepts a very interesting form of reload, a caseless barrel replacement. (Do a search on Wikipedia for 'Metal Storm')- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Re: Is Nanoha t3h Sechs? Yes. Yes, she is. - ECSNorway - 05-16-2007
Yeah, it does.
I think this ties in to my theory earlier -- Tia doesn't use cartridges in the normal sense, as one-shot super-boosters, but as slow-discharge batteries, providing a longer-term, less-intense but constant boost to her magical abilities.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
Re: Is Nanoha t3h Sechs? Yes. Yes, she is. - Berk - 05-17-2007
It looks kind of like a Mid take on Caseless Velka ammo. Though I get a headache trying to figure out how they manage to segregate quanta of magical power.- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Ep5 - SkyeFire - 05-17-2007
I'm running behind everyone else (slow connection, dang it), but I'm finally watching Ep5, and...
Okayyy... apparently, now that Fate and Nanoha aren't lolibait anymore, it's apprently been decided that they're fair game for naked twirly lightshow transformation sequences, complete with dissolving underwear and gainaxing. Not that I can *complain,* exactly, it's just... weird, to see that happen to girls I first 'met' when they were, what, 12?
Still, it could get old fast. Hopefully the producers will follow their previous pattern, and devote the screen time that most genre shows give to stock henshin sequences to plot development, instead.
Poor Carol. Her people must have had a bad experience some time in the past, otherwise they'd probably realize that they're crafting a self-fulfilling prophecy with this policy.
Is Hayate visiting Carim incognito, or is she just trying to fit in with the area's apparent social mores?
Personal flight is restricted in Mid airspace? Well, sod *that* -- if *I* could fly, I'd live someplace with unrestricted flight rules. Heck, you'd *never* get me out of the air.
Not sure if it means anything... but Carol and Tea seemed to be hitting it off real fast earlier, but it's Subaru who's washing Carol's hair in Ep4.
(And Erio, done washing up well before the girls, is sitting on the steps with Freid wondering what's taking them so long. Just proves there *are* some universal constants that just can't be broken...
)Fate's car has magically-stored and -deployed windows and cop lights, but can't drive itself home? Technological mismatches, hm. Either that, or it was going to take enough time to get flight clearance that she could afford to drive back to base. Either way, she made it to the battle at the same time as the rest of the team. Speaking of which -- Fate in high-speed flight mode? *BEAUTIFUL.*
Okay... why doesn't anybody transform *inside* the helicopter, before jumping out? I know, I know, drama. But *still*....
More Naked Twirly Lightshow henshins -- Subaru and Tea I can understand, but *Carol*? At least hers is much more understated.
OTOH, in a blatant display of sexism, Erio stays clothed the entire time. Not that I'm *complaining* about that....
(And can *someone* explain to me the rationale behind these combat outfits? *None* of them make any sense, from an armor standpoint. Heck, Carol's probably makes more sense, coverage-wise, than any of the others. Subaru's is the worst, but even Nanoha's and Fate's leave large chunks of their legs exposed (and why do you want leg armor to look like thigh-high stockings, anyway?), as does Erio's. Sigh... someday I'd like to see a mahou-armor series where the armor actually looks like it was designed by someone who knows what they're doing. Like Sylia Stingray, or Tony Stark....)
Subaru goes wall-blading...
SUBARU!!!! STOP TALKING TO YOUR AI IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT!!!!!!!!
Whoa. The Big Ball Gadget disperses Erio and Strada's magic, and Erio *still* manages to push it back by pure physical force? What have they been *feeding* this kid?
And... am I the only one who thinks he could almost pass for Signum's little brother? Not so much in looks as in 'tude and style.
Sooo... depending on how well she summons them, Carol's dragons have varying levels of intelligence? That's an interesting twist.
And does anyone else get a Mai/Kagutschei vibe from Carol/Big Fred?
Carol and Erio's styles and magic seem *awfully* complementary, don't they? And if Erio reminds me of Signum, Carol's incantations when boosting him seem an awful lot like Hayate's....
Project F? What's Project F? And is it only connected to Erio and Fate, or is Subaru part of it as well? ARRGH!!! MYSTERIES!!
Re: Ep5 - Valles - 05-17-2007
I've already said my piece about Caro's clan's choice, so...
Quote:Dude, they've always done that.
Okayyy... apparently, now that Fate and Nanoha aren't lolibait anymore, it's apprently been decided that they're fair game for naked twirly lightshow transformation sequences, complete with dissolving underwear and gainaxing.
Well, except the last bit, anyway.
Quote:Tea and Subaru are kinda a package deal, yesno? Plus Subaru strikes me as being everybody's friend... Hm. She really is a lot like Nanoha, sans genius.
Not sure if it means anything... but Carol and Tea seemed to be hitting it off real fast earlier, but it's Subaru who's washing Carol's hair in Ep4.
Oddly, given what sort of show MSLN has proven itself to be (and that it positively embraces that status), I get no gay love vibes from Subs and Tea. They strike me mostly as siblings.
Quote:Hmmm... *brain clicks over to CoH mode* ...lemme get back to you on that.
(And can *someone* explain to me the rationale behind these combat outfits? *None* of them make any sense, from an armor standpoint. Heck, Carol's probably makes more sense, coverage-wise, than any of the others. Subaru's is the worst, but even Nanoha's and Fate's leave large chunks of their legs exposed (and why do you want leg armor to look like thigh-high stockings, anyway?), as does Erio's. Sigh... someday I'd like to see a mahou-armor series where the armor actually looks like it was designed by someone who knows what they're doing. Like Sylia Stingray, or Tony Stark....)
...no, wait, Moldiver did that.
Anyway, since the meta rationale is probably fairly obvious, I'll only say that I think it's canon that the battle costumes aren't, in fact, intended to provide any sort of direct, physical protection, since that role is provided by a series of static barrier fields set up during the transformation. I'm guessing that the visible clothing serves as a sort of emitter for the real barriers, and that, as long as there's a certain minimum surface area, what it looks like or where it is on the body are really irrelevant to the system's effect.
I suspect that Fate and Nanoha talked each other into the zettai ryouki, for indecent personal reasons of their own. Subaru's outfit strikes me as an attempt at practical psychology - not being a naturally aggressive person that I've seen, she might find that dressing like a Tough Fighter Chick makes it easier to fulfil that role.
Quote:Honestly, I'd agree - for the opposite reason. He seems friendlier and warmer than Signum is, but damn they look alike.
And... am I the only one who thinks he could almost pass for Signum's little brother? Not so much in looks as in 'tude and style.
Ja, -n
===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Re: Ep5 - Florin - 05-17-2007
Quote:Sylia Stingray put high-heels and in one case translucent bellybuttons on her power armour. That's worse. Besides, you should be thanking your lucky stars that their not wearing frilly ribbon endowed school uniforms. I am suprised that no one has complained to managment about sexist uniform polices though.
someday I'd like to see a mahou-armor series where the armor actually looks like it was designed by someone who knows what they're doing. Like Sylia Stingray, or Tony Stark....
And I'd guess that personal flight is restricted for the same reason that manually controlled aircars just aren't a good idea. --
La Krueze: I just want everyone in the universe to suffer. Is that so wrong?
--
If you become a monster to put down a monster you've still got a monster running around at the end of the day and have as such not really solved the whole monster problem at all.
Erio & Signum - SkyeFire - 05-17-2007
I said:
Quote:To which Nate replied:
And... am I the only one who thinks he could almost pass for Signum's little brother? Not so much in looks as in 'tude and style.
Quote:You're right about their personalities *outside* of combat -- when I wrote that, I'd just watched The Great Train Robb-- er, Recovery, and watching him go up against the Big Ball Gadget just gave me really strong Signum vibes. I think Signum could really teach him a thing or two, if she weren't (so she says) terrible at teaching.
Honestly, I'd agree - for the opposite reason. He seems friendlier and warmer than Signum is, but damn they look alike.
Physically... I dunno, the hair color difference throws me off, but the eyes, the jawline... mmm. Darn you, Nate, now I'm gong to have to re-watch all those eps.
Re: Erio & Signum - Berk - 05-17-2007
Elio is a somewhat more advanced student than the others, I suspect. In the comic chapter set 2 years earlier, Elio was looking down at Subaru and Teana in basic training going 'Oh hey, that looks like FUN!'
Signum taking notice of him might be an interesting plot element for later.
Especially if he continues channeling Sanger.- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead