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Re: I GOT IT!! - classicdrogn - 01-12-2006
Quote:That was basically my reaction when I thought of it, too. (And that was a problem, since I was driving at the time.) Most likely I will let her use it, and stomp one of the Sound popcorn guys in the prelims then have the finals get interrupted before her fight would begin, so I can have her help deal with the invasion without upstaging the main cast - nice wide target selection at that point, after all.
*jaw on floor, gobsmacked*
- CD
ETA: Discussion of names on the Toad Summoning Scroll - looks like Yondaime's name might well be Kayaku
ETA2: Now that I think of it, if I do knock Sasuke out in the prelims, Serenoty is probably the only other person besides Naruto who'd have a chance at surviving fighting Gaara...That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
" It's crazy to try to spell out all the mega-nooks and hyper-crannies of a Borg contrivance." - Doug Drexler
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: I GOT IT!! - Valles - 01-12-2006
Quote:*nodnod* I'd seen that before, yeah, and been planning to use it.
ETA: Discussion of names on the Toad Summoning Scroll - looks like Yondaime's name might well be Kayaku
Incidentally, the goal of making TGNH the next 'door' over from TXYH obligates me to go into a lot of detail that I've had lurking in the background but never really had a chance to go into.
The first thing that matters is that I interpret the canon Naruto universe as having a noticeable amount of chakra-based technologies, most of which end up being packaged in coincidentally familiar ways. Non-chakra tech is circa 500 AD or so in most fields - their Industrial Revolution hasn't happened yet.
That means that agricultural productivity is very low, Konoha is a relatively large city, most everything is both handmade and relatively expensive, and there's an unbelievable amount of scutwork that's being done by hand.
Now take that situation and toss in someone who's had access to concepts like mechanical harvesters, cotton mills, production lines, and washing machines. Then give him a direct line into the ear of the most powerful man in Konoha...
Really all N. had to do was introduce the idea that a machine could perform a task involving rote motion faster and more efficiently than human labor, and the Revolution was off and running - and our story doesn't pick up until twelve years later.
Erm... straight from my notes:
Konoha Heirarchy
Hokage - Sandaime
Administrative Council - Dept. Heads and Clan Heads, chaired by those old farts that tried to draft Jiraiya as Godaime.
ANBU - Morino Ibiki (Interrogation Specialist) - Asassination missions, Oinin; direct command of Hokage
11 Jounin
12 Medics
24 Chuunin
Medical - Mitarashi Anko (Psychology Specialist) - Health care, mental health and therapy, orphanage, research and development
~5 Doctors (Jounin medics)
~15 Medics (Chunin level)
~30 Genin (assistants, trainees)
~200 non-ninja support personnel
Archives - Bakusuta Neshan (Fuuinjutsu Specialist) - Assembly, coalation, organization, storage and protection of everything Konoha knows and learns. Also handles schools.
2 Jounin
~15 Chuunin (one jounin and 1/3 of the Chuunin guarding the archives building, 24/7/365, no exceptions)
~20 Genin
~20 civilians
Intelligence - Gekkou Hayate (Infiltration Specialist) - Spies and counterspies.
~5 Jounin
~20 Chuunin
~15 Genin
~200 civilian analysts
Operations - Shiranui Genma () - most A and B missions, all C and D missions. Also the 'standing army', as it were - report to the Council, rather than directly to the Hokage.
~15 Jounin
~40 Chuunin
~70 Genin
Police - Aburame Ebisu ('Forensics' Specialist) - Peacekeeping, internal affairs. The branch that interacts with civilians most often, since they do that for all of Konoha.
~3 Jounin
~10 Chuunin
~20 Genin
~100 civilians
10 Clan Heads
1 Civil Government Representative
Totals:
40-50 Jounin
120-130 Chuunin
150-160 Genin
310-330 Overall, with about twice that many reservists, about 90% of them genin-level (there's a tax break for keeping in practice after academy graduation)
Under wartime conditions, rank was a matter of power and combat ability - you kicked a given amount of ass, you got the promotion. After the war, this changed somewhat, requiring leadership skills, good judgement, and, after the Aoi incident, proof of loyalty.
Tokubetsu Jounin are not Jounin-grade in all of their skills - N, for example, simply does not have the chakra reserves to manage Jounin-level Gen-and-Ninjutsu - but are required to meet the same psychological standards and are often better than the more generalized elites within their own fields - although that specialty need not neccessarily be a combat-related one. I have them as the leading staff officers to explain something odd we saw in the show - the ANBU addressed Anko as '-sama', which really wouldn't make sense for a Chuunin-plus talking to a Jounin-minus... unless there were another factor.
Erm... oh, Naruto's background.
I've had the Uzumaki as being a relatively recent immigrant family - Naruto's grandfather was a first-generation Stone-nin who had to flee after catching the wrong side of some internal politics. He had two kids - elder son Kayaku (yes, him), and younger daughter Surimi. Kayaku fell head over heels and married into one of Konoha's older clans, the Kagami, but his wife died in the Kyuubi's first attack and they never had any kids.
The Mitarashi, as a whole, can make the Hyuuga look laid-back (although their style about the whole thing tends to be more on the 'flame and brimstone' line), so they basically disowned Surimi's husband because he'd gone and married a piece of immigrant filth (Why, yes, Anko has got a serious case of rebellion), which means that they wouldn't acknowledge Naruto as family even without his tenant in the picture.
Husband and both grandparents died during the kitsune debacle, but Surimi actually survived - she didn't die until Naruto was almost three, although I really haven't decided what of, yet.
...there were other things, but I've forgotten what they were, now. ^_^;
Quote:Temari and Kankura would forfeit ASAP, and I can see Shino trying a couple of different approaches, thinking his options over, and then doing the same thing.
ETA2: Now that I think of it, if I do knock Sasuke out in the prelims, Serenoty is probably the only other person besides Naruto who'd have a chance at surviving fighting Gaara...
OTOH, that would deprive us of the chance to clobber psycho-boy with a nine-foot-wide pink heart, and we can't hav ethat, can we?
Ja, -n
===========
===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: I GOT IT!! - classicdrogn - 01-12-2006
The only quibble I have with your assessment of technology levels is that we see a relatively modern crane and bulldozer at the Wave bridge construction site - though I'm not so sure on the 'dozer - which seems unlikely for a finaancially-depressed region only ten years after the introduction of the idea of machines. I'm sure some no-prize can be thgouht up, or the anachronisms simply removed. I'd remembered previous discussions of Narutoverse seal-tech, though, it's just that nothing much has come up to show it off. As for being "next door" to TGNH... I was thinking that the main direct relation was that some of the 'points' saved by 'only' getting Neshan were used to make a few lesser changes here, of the sort that don't need dropping an outsider in to affect - a local Neshan's existence is what determines they can be used that way, and the most visible effect is the change of Mist couriers in favor of Rikou's mom that I mentioned in the opening sequence - there's surely others, of course, possibly including the nature or even presence of the recently-detailed senshi DC cameo cast, but they are for the most part minor.
On Naruto: So I'm guessing he lived with his auntie as an infant, only being remanded to the rather haphazard (in his case only, and without Anko's knowledge since I doubt she'd stand for shit like that demon-boy or not) care of Child Services after her death? If the Academy lasts four years (what I'd been figuring, splitting the difference between the two and six years I've seen as the usual range in other fanfic) that would have him entering a little over three years later to be two years early, whether because he wanted to get away from the day care and that was as soon as he could manage it, or because they wanted him to be someone else's problem for a while.
- CD
ETA: While we're talking about compatability and backstory - I named that peninsula of the Fire Country that extends off the southeast corner of the map - though I can't rmemeber what it was ATM, one of the words I listed meaning (pine) torch/flambeax/torchlight - and it's the destination in TXY 2, where Jiraya is this time of year due to a 'spring break in miami' sort of popularity with the upper middle class and noble youth of Fire and its allies. It's also home to a Gatou-backed criminal organisation called Two Gees, which supplies various recreational substances frowned on in Fire, and provides various methods of seperating young fools and their ryou in time-honored methods such as gaming halls and geisha parlours. They also supress violent crime in the area because it's bad for business, and usually avoid openly hiring missing-nin becasue doing so attracts too much attention. This latter principle will be neccesarily compromised in TXY2, and aside from being a place to try looking for Jiraya if someone wants him it's not likely to even rate a mention in TGNH, but in the interests of keeping things on the same page, here it is.That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
tidbit - classicdrogn - 01-12-2006
Shortly post-Chuunin Exam, there's still D-rank missions that need doing, but with the manpower crunch most of them are expected to be done by a single genin or at most a pair... Naruto and someone calmer (meaning a mix & match from another team, basically) show up for a babysitting mission, knock on the door, it opens, and...
"AAAAH!" the hyperactve blond shouted, jaw dropping in shock. "IT'S THE CRAZY LADY!"
(whoever)'s eye's widened, remembering the psycho examiner from the second test, and (s)he whipped out a kunai, growling, "We won't let you kidnap Hotaru-chan!"
Anko's face took on a strained look, as if fighter some inner demon for control... then she snorted and doubled up in helpless laughter. A small girl with dark hair and eyes poked her head around the corner of the screen to the kitchen area, and sighed, "Mou... you broke mama..."
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: tidbit - Rieverre - 01-12-2006
Quote:Rei. Definitely Rei.
(whoever)'s eye's widened, remembering the psycho examiner from the second test, and (s)he whipped out a kunai, growling, "We won't let you kidnap Hotaru-chan!"
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
Re: I GOT IT!! - Valles - 01-13-2006
Quote:Aunt? Huh?
On Naruto: So I'm guessing he lived with his auntie as an infant, only being remanded to the rather haphazard (in his case only, and without Anko's knowledge since I doubt she'd stand for shit like that demon-boy or not) care of Child Services after her death? If the Academy lasts four years (what I'd been figuring, splitting the difference between the two and six years I've seen as the usual range in other fanfic) that would have him entering a little over three years later to be two years early, whether because he wanted to get away from the day care and that was as soon as he could manage it, or because they wanted him to be someone else's problem for a while.
Yondaime was Naruto's uncle, stet? And his younger sister, Surimi, was an ANBU trooper who died two or three years after her brother, at which point her son, our own lovable Jinchuuriki, went into the standard Konoha orphan/fosterage system. Surimi's husband was Anko's cousin, and besides having been disowned by his clan, no member of his immediate family managed to survive to the present day.
In short, aside from some random civilians in southern Stone country, Anko is at least tied for the title of Naruto's closest living relative, given that she's probably the only one of the potential candidates who'd be willing to acknowledge the connection... if either of them had a clue that they were connected like that.
Umm... oh! Climate. I think that Konoha has got to be a lot cooler than all those sunny days make it look - I mean, look at how Team 8 dresses, just as an example - at least, during those parts of its year that we get to see. So, long story short, I think that that continent in general and Fire Country in particular are subject to a seasonal monsoon on a par with what's seen in India. (I'd also placed the landmass in the local southern hemisphere, but that was mostly to be perverse and can be discarded as you please).
So, the rainy season - local summer - starts around late November-December, then pours buckets for the next three or four months straight, with temperatures rising steadily from ~80F/27C to the neighborhood of 100F/40C right before the weather breaks and it finally stops raining around early April. Then things reach the chillier side of mild during the day until next November, with nights getting steadily colder around the winter solstice.
So between December and April, nothing much happens in Konoha, except going out to patch the roof. Most of Fire Country is still forest, because otherwise the ground can't soak up enough of the rain to last through the rest of the year and the rivers dry up, plant life dies, and then everything gets washed away next time the rains come.
Rain Country gets its name because it's right to the north of Fire, in the foothills of the mountains that make up most of Stone. Which means that whatever moisture those clouds have left after crossing Fire (usually quite a bit) gets dumped there.
Speaking of mountain ranges (did I go into this here, or on Edenfalling's LJ?) - the northern edge of the Ninja Continent is a convergent plate boundary, much like, oh, the Andes in South America, or the Cascades here in the US and Canada - those mountains run from the 'spine' of the Lightning Country peninsula all the way west into Stone, at which point they blend into several other, even larger ranges with more in common with the Rockies or Himalayas.
As you go west, you start getting less rainfall anyway, but there's another mountain range of interest along the southern edge of Wind Country - it's rain shadow is the reason you end up with a desert so close to a rainforest in an east-west progression. There's a sort of long, narrow coastal trading nation to the south of that range and some balkanized city-states along the western edges of Stone and Wind, but other than that, the existing maps show everything of potential interest.
And I need to go eat. Back in a bit!
ETA: The clan Kayaku married into, the Kagami, are one that I've mentioned before. Their Blood Limit includes a sort of nictating membrane - which is shiny and reflective, hence the name of both the Limit (Kagamigan - 'Mirror Eye') and the clan that bears it - and grants them the ability to see a full three-hundred sixty degrees, much the same way the Byakugan often seems to. Differences - the Kagamigan doesn't need nearly as much chakra, it only involves normal acuity of vision, and it doesn't have a blind spot. And it can be hidden.
The Kagami themselves are of Stone extraction - clear skin, silky blond hair, light colored eyes - Deidara could maybe pass for one.
The Yuuhi are a major clan also, and yes, Kurenai is perfectly typical in pretty much all respects. Their bloodlimit, the Bunkougan, lets them see infrared and ultraviolet radiation in addition to normal visible light, which is mostly just wierd but can be very useful, especially in colder climates.
That brings us, in turn, to the point that we've gone in completely different directions on - the Haruno.
Your Haruno, IIRC, are an active ninja clan much like the Yamanaka and Nara, all of whom have pink hair and a bipartate conciousness from birth, which lets them essentially do two things at once.
Mine are a well-to-do merchant family with ninja ancestors, comperable in role and resources to Gatou, just more honest. Their hair colors vary by individual, but are always startling and identical to one species or other of flower, after which that individual is then named. The blood limit proper is much more subtle, not so much being a mind split as making it possible for the clanmember to subdivide and reassemble their mind without driving themselves batshit crazy. Doing so, however, takes considerable time and preperation, which limits combat applications, and doesn't improve its owners ability to track multiple trains of thought in the slightest.
What it does do, besides the spying and interrogation applications we've discussed before, is allow a properly prepared Haruno to take advantage of a Bunshin variation whose clones compare to Naruto's Kage Bunshin about the same way an Abrams compares to a Humvee - IOW, they're just as durable as their creator, and can last literally months without any further support.
...I think that's about it.
Ja, -n
===========
===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: I GOT IT!! - classicdrogn - 01-13-2006
Stepping back twice to look at the metacontinuity of the SI Gods, here's my theory, then, on the relation of the two worlds - the original difference that made them seperate universes was somewhere in the past, and the effect was the difference in the Haruno clan - whether having more combat utility in the bloodline limnt kept them active or whether continuing as active ninja refined the bloodline is open to question, but not really relevant. So, at some point, the Good Guys decide to drop in your avatar, and the Bad Guys counter with Hell Sakura - now a Neshan is born in all close enough realites to count, and your avatar pops in ex nihilo at age five, this being covered by the base SI 'points' and the total Hero Allowance can be spread through all of the places a Neshan popped up. The Bad Guys popped in a verison of someone who already exists, so there's no second Sakura growing up older and eviler in TXY or anywhere else - well, not unless Evil Sakura was one fo the opriginal differences - and while the could have spent Villain Points anywhere in those same Neshan-group universes, they only put a few here and there, to influence a few decisions prerhaps, but mostly concentrated on making Hell Sakura scary and psycho and evil and ignoring, as one of the readers noted, the Figuring Shit Out category a little more than they should. So, we have native Neshan with a vaguely similar way of thinking and the same position, bad guys whose decisions end up making things a little tougher now and then, and some Good Guy changes that have so far resulted in at least one person born who wouldn't have been, and several poeple more ending up in places they wouldn't have been (the new characters for the Chuunin Exam) - and that's just on screen.
Not that any of this matters for either story, but I like to keep these sorts of things tidy in my mind - kami know there's plenty else untidy in there.
- CD
ETA: re Southern Hemisphere/climate: Had to rethink things a little bit, and I'll need to switch some north/south descriptors, but I don't think it'll be any particular problem - it actually makes more sense for apples and strong liquor to come from the colder part of the country, I just need a festival name - instead of being a 'spring break in Miami' deal, Kirika (the city on the peninsula where they're going to look for Jiraya) is famous for being the place for a certain festival, which will need a name - it's held after the planting in the dry season, in honor of various agricultural kami in hopes of their granting a good growing season and eventual bountiful harvest - sort a of 'Mardi Gras in New Orleans' thing. Still the most logical place to find a certain old pervert who makes a show of irresponsibility.That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: I GOT IT!! - Valles - 01-13-2006
Very close, but not... quite how it works.
Look at it like a wargame - such and such a unit has these given powers and costs that many points, and you can spend other points to upgrade it if you like.
TGNH!Neshan is a very cheap unit with a few minor upgrades and a very, very sneaky plan.
Hell!Sakura is a very expensive unit, who was chosen on the basis of the idea that, in order to accomplish their goals, the Black Champion had to be capable of at least competing with the local heavy hitters.
The question is, did dropping N. in there move the TGNHverse from where it originally was to where he had some DCs? Not that it really matters...
Anyway, the initial divergence sounds good.
Ummm... politics, as promised.
Konoha politics revolve around two essential conflicts - the first is between Leaf loyalists and Fire loyalists, over exactly how closely the village associates with the country, how integrated it should be into national politics, how subject to the general laws, etc. Basically, it's over whether Konohagakure no Sato is Hinokuni's standing professional army, or a seperate entity working as a contractor.
The second conflict is entirely internal to Konoha, and it's basically over what sort of ninja Leaf-nin should be. On the one hand, you have the faction that traces its roots back to the Shodaime Hokage and his personal followers, who think that ninja are people and anyway a unified whole is stronger than the sum of any backbiting pack of heartless killers, and on the other you have the traditionalists from the old bloodline clans who think that strength is strength and that it's the only virtue that's of any worth to a ninja - the most recent manga chapters illustrate this very well indeed.
The Reform faction has had a death-grip on the formal leadership of the village pretty much since the get-go. Out of the department heads, two are Reformists - Neshan extremely, Anko slightly less so - and the other four are all moderates, with Genma and Hayate literally fence-sitting and Ibiki and Ebisu leaning Traditional.
The clan heads, OTOH, tend to be hardcore Traditionalists, and throughout this entire struggle, there's the wildcard of Hinokuni's civil government waiting in the wings and trying to build its own influence. The Daimyo really doesn't have any way to directly affect anything, but OTGH, he's also got a hell of a lot of money to throw around.
And then you get into the localism question and not only do all the factions and alignments change, but there are ten times as many answers to the question too, so I won't even try to go into it beyond noting that it is there.
One of the reasons I suggested the climate thing is that, well, it actually doesn't require changing anything, so I'm glad you like it. ^_^
Ja, -n
===========
===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: I GOT IT!! - classicdrogn - 01-13-2006
Quote:Well, going by what I was trying to say, dropping in Neshan was the "this or that" decision that retroactively cloned off a whole group of realites, which had not previously-in-god-time had a Neshan, but now had/would have a native one, grouped around the one reality where they actually put him, whereas with Hell Sakura, because versions of her already existed in that group, there isn't an echo effect adding a second counterpart like her.
The question is, did dropping N. in there move the TGNHverse from where it originally was to where he had some DCs? Not that it really matters...
Mainly, it's a load of doubletalk to explain why I'm not stealing your villianess despite having a version of your avatar.
- CD
Edit to not double-post again:
Quote:Given these totals, how big is a "major clan" versus a "minor clan" - I mean, in Sakura's familiy alone I have the Haruno supplying two jounin, one of them ANBU, another who's a reservist, three chuunin, and a genin, plus the chuunin cousin Drakensis mentioned - that's 2% of the total ninja of Konoha plus hover many family members Shima has, and probably at least one more family with members of age to be active, and a few elders; the Yamanaka are roughly similar. The Hyuuga I don't have a real tight handle on, except that there's enough of them (between both branches) to have marriages within the clan a noticable fraction of the time, probably at least fifty or so, but most reservists, and the Uchiha pre-massacre about the same.
Totals:
40-50 Jounin
120-130 Chuunin
150-160 Genin
310-330 Overall, with about twice that many reservists, about 90% of them genin-level (there's a tax break for keeping in practice after academy graduation)
The Haruno are one of the more humanist clans in terms of 'what is shinobi' - they'd pretty much have to be, or someone would have forcefully set Sakura straight before she went through the academy making the family look weak. If it turns out that they're a relatively major clan, they may be one of the swing votes on the Council, shifting between the Clan Head traditionalist block on things regarding clan autonomy, the Leaf block where that differs from the Traditionalists, and the Humanists most of the rest of the time - with the understanding that one has to be a strong ninja as well as a person, because you've lost either way if you're dead.
Next question: kakashi and Gai and probably the new guy who's with Naruto, Sakura, and Sai are "Elite Jounin" - Shizune and Kabuto are likely at this level as well, though I don't think Shizune has an official rank and of course Kabuto is hiding his ability. I'm guessing that they're probably it in terms of Elites from your numbers, or at most a handful more, does that sound about right?That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: I GOT IT!! - Valles - 01-13-2006
Mmm... within a given clan you're going to have one or two 'core' families and a fairly random number of associated ones, and most of the people in those associated lines actually won't be ninja - they'll be mixed up in the clan's outside businesses and civilian properties. Without a strong obligating tradition like Sasuke and Hinata grew up with, there are quite a few people who look at the shinobi lifestyle and casualty rates and conclude that they are not going to mix their kids up in that. Among other things, this system keeps the bloodline intact if, say, a single battle wipes out most of the main family at once.
So, overall, I'd say that a major clan could probably field between ten and fifteen active ninja, and a minor one anywhere between one and nine. Ten or so of those, then a crapshoot dividing the rest of the totals between minor clans and first generation ninja.
I'd also point out that another reason the Haruno might be moderates is that their bloodline gives them a constant and consistent reason to study and understand psychology, for many of the same reasons that Aburame will tend to know a lot about entymology. A healthy childhood, in the clan leadership's minds, would go a long way towards creating successful shinobi - if for no other reason than what happens when you push a kid too hard, like Hinata was.
Ja, -n
===========
===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: I GOT IT!! - classicdrogn - 01-13-2006
Quote:That's it, that fits exactly - though I think that while Hinata would be part of the blade, the piercing point is Itachi. However strongly they feel about it, however, clan autonomy comes first if anything comes to a vote, so while Haruno-oijsan might applaud the end of the Hyuuga house division, it MUST come form within and he'll have no part in trying to force it. His eternal rival Maito-ojisan, on the other hand, would be a willing ally for Hinata in that respect, and is something of an activist in the Villiage Council despite being of a minor clan - the Maito attitude towards the springtime of youth, passionate power, and putting your all into wathever you do is multigenerational, even if they do calm down... a bit... eventually.
I'd also point out that another reason the Haruno might be moderates is that their bloodline gives them a constant and consistent reason to study and understand psychology, for many of the same reasons that Aburame will tend to know a lot about entymology. A healthy childhood, in the clan leadership's minds, would go a long way towards creating successful shinobi - if for no other reason than what happens when you push a kid too hard, like Hinata was.
I'm kind of thinking that the Aburame took over for the Haruno as the merchant family of the Leaf in TXY - initially a sideline in weaver-bug silk, their ninja side is the same size but the civilian side of the family, with a much greater proportion of Weavers (who usually only deal with lining the passages in the body-hives) to combat bugs, has grown and expanded into general carriers of what's made here and sells there. There are distinct business advantages to being an Aburame as well, as seen in the canon chuunin exam and when Shino is talking to Kabuto in TGNH.
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: I GOT IT!! - Valles - 01-14-2006
Quote:Yyeeeeaaaah... Um, I've got a scene written where N. is explaining a lot of this to the kids (because Naruto at least doesn't know it, and because he - and I - like to lecture), but it's longhand and I don't have the energy to type it in at the moment. The way I've worked it is that the term Elite only comes into use to distinguish from Special - ie, a Special Jounin has a Jounin's authority and psychological/leadership qualifications and at least one field of ninja practice at that level. Elite, or full, Jounin are Jounin-ranked in all four skill categories, but tend to have taken longer to get there, are much less likely to have noteworthy non-combat skills, and typically fall just barely short of full mastery of their fields.
Next question: kakashi and Gai and probably the new guy who's with Naruto, Sakura, and Sai are "Elite Jounin" - Shizune and Kabuto are likely at this level as well, though I don't think Shizune has an official rank and of course Kabuto is hiding his ability. I'm guessing that they're probably it in terms of Elites from your numbers, or at most a handful more, does that sound about right?
So, overall, I'd say that there are more Elites than you'd seem to guess, but they're not as overwhelmingly powerful as the title would first suggest.
Special Jounin as a whole will be assigned to specific missions as needed, and tend to handle most everything that calls for a command-level ninja that doesn't involve straight-out asskicking. Elite Jounin tend to handle the heaviest missions and mission loads, and, since their grasp of theory tends to be better rounded, get tapped to handle the Genin teams - ie, all of the canon Jounin-sensei are Elites.
ANBU service, btw, is a requirement for promotion to Jounin - a test of sorts, and trial of passage. This means that most ANBU are Chuunin, and their teams are led by Jounin because, well, the last time one wasn't was bloody Uchiha Itachi. (Since I have no clue if it'll come up, I'll let slip here that Neshan and Itachi have known and violently disliked each other since they were in the Academy, and that N. was actually in I.'s ANBU team - which greatly thrilled everybody concerned, let me tell you.)
RE: Maito and Aburame - sounds good!
RE: Haruno - argh. Actually, the real problem, which slipped my mind earlier, is that we've actually gone and created entirely different characters to fill out Sakura's family, particularly her mother. I mean, kickass Jounin vs. fluttery socialite, that's a big gap. Her father isn't nearly so problematic, and since I don't think either of us has ever formally pinned down how many kids there are we can just use all of them, but...
*shrug* Within her limits, Asuna's a good enough person, and she's genuinely devoted to her family, but Sakura came by her over-concern for societal pressures honestly - she thinks that what people think is a vital part of what matters in life, or at least a neccessity thereto - when Sakura realises how much her home life differs from her teammates and invites them to join in, Asuna's main issue with Naruto will basically boil down to, 'But what will people think?'
There's another minor point, which can be discarded easily enough given the original divergence but might be cool to resolve - see, fandom tradition says that all Haruno have pink hair. My take was, maybe not. Maybe it's that Sakura has cherry-blossom pink hair, and her sister Katakuri has lavender, and their father, Saffuron has saffron-yellow, and so on... which kind of sucks for the boys in the family, but that's life.
Ja, -n
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"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: I GOT IT!! - drakensis - 01-14-2006
ClassicDrogn Wrote:I mean, in Sakura's familiy alone I have the Haruno supplying two jounin, one of them ANBU, another who's a reservist, three chuunin, and a genin, plus the chuunin cousin Drakensis mentionedShima isn't canon and there is absolutely no reason he has to be Haruno, I just picked a clan name at random. He might as well be wearing a red shirt and a stormtrooper helmet as far as I'm concerned.
As far as clan size goes, I suspect that that a combination of the canon tendency towards modern nuclear familes (i.e. 2.3 kids) * and a substantial fraction of the mothers being kunoichi (the 1 in 3 rule seems to be fairly consistent) means that clans won't be huge in their total numbers unless they've been around. So long-standing clans like the Hyuuga and Uchiba were probably around long before Konoha, which is only around 60 years old by my best guess.
So a typical minor clan would probably be 20 or so people spread over 3-4 generations, including those who married into the clan and children. Probably about half would be adults of effective age to be ninja and maybe half to two-thirds have the training. Call it 5-6 ninja, less casualties.
A major clan, with a couple more generations would probably be 3-4 times as large - the Hyuuga could easily number seventy or eighty with thirty to forty ninja by that rule although probably the number of casualties wuld keep this smaller.
* large familes as seen a hundred years ago would inflate clan sizes drastically.
D for Drakensis
You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.
Re: I GOT IT!! - classicdrogn - 01-14-2006
Quote:Well, that was why I said the original difference was the Haruno clan, and that it was sometime considerably in the past - Sakura is one of those destined key figures who shows up regardless, but her fathers are slightly different between the two, and her mothers are two different people entirely.
RE: Haruno - argh. Actually, the real problem, which slipped my mind earlier, is that we've actually gone and created entirely different characters to fill out Sakura's family, particularly her mother. I mean, kickass Jounin vs. fluttery socialite, that's a big gap. Her father isn't nearly so problematic, and since I don't think either of us has ever formally pinned down how many kids there are we can just use all of them, but...
family sizes - I'd had it as a range of 1.7 to ~5 kids in ninja families, with the prominence of the clan and utility of the bloodline being the major factor in how many and whether one or both parents retire from active service to raise them. Attrition and the small low end means that the villiages still have to do a lot of recruiting form non-ninja families, though those kids usually end up either reservists raising the next generation or administrative, due to the lack of family to practise with and pass down advanced techniques, with only the most driven like Neshan and Mina rising far or fast. ETA: And, DUH, Tenten.
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Left at Albequerque - classicdrogn - 01-14-2006
For all that I've been trying to avoid plotting so far in advance, when I have several gaps in the immediate story to fill, all this stuff in the Chuunin exam time frame has gotten me considering what to do... and I'm thinking about throwing a serious wrench in things. Gaara transforming right there in Konoha big - though that is actually only a secondary factor to what I'm posting for comment:
I'm seriously considering killing Orochimaru right there during the invasion. Usagi will still be mostly fresh, and Auntie Serenity can pull off some seriously heinous shit if she fires The Chakra Pool That Makes Jounin Cry off all at once - either the barrier goes down, or the building does and the Four Sound have to drop it to save themselves. After all, the San-nin weren't The Professor's only genin team. Still too late for the old man, unfortunately, but the genin who'd have fought the Four Sound are either available then or stand ins are, and Gai and Kakashi together could probably do the job with Snakepants worn down from fighting Sarutobi-sama, if someone can tie up Kabuto. I'm aware that this would seriusly screw with the remainder of the series, but... I'm just really sick of the whole Sasuke Defects arc, and want to smack it down hard, and the remainder of the series hasn't been all that great so far anyway.
Opinions?
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Left at Albequerque - Valles - 01-14-2006
Quote:*innocent* Isn't that the point?
I'm aware that this would seriusly screw with the remainder of the series, but...
And I wouldn't worry about Kabuto - Neshan's subbing in for Hayate and Genma, remember, and he and Mr. Sneaky have History - promotion exams are closer to being a continuation of the educational system than anything else, remember, so he's the logical choice to run the final and most important test.
Oh, and regarding Serenity/Usagi - I suddenly have this amusing image of Shikamaru or Tenten or somebody watching her break open the 'safe' and going all pale and sort of whispering to themselves, 'I was going to have to fight that?!'
Hmm... it'd be a bit too much to for an N. who didn't have foreknowledge to have an area-affect Kai scroll ready just in case, but if Gai and Kakashi and the other Jounin-sensei can buy him a minute or two, he could probably put one together on the spot - after which point the invasion forces run into real problems, since that'd put something like six hundred ninja of various levels in the same place, and every single one of them hopping mad... for that matter, he might be able to break the shield the same way, although that'd probably take longer.
Ja, -n
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"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: Left at Albequerque - classicdrogn - 01-14-2006
Quote:True, dat - and even more so, to be one of the dozens of worlds where the Good Guys won victories by adding their army-of-one, which having our Freindly Neighborhood Sealmaster Man whip up a mass-dispel for the audience would certainly be in line with. I suppose I'll just have to see if it looks like it will work as the time draws nearer.
Isn't that the point?
- CD
ETA: I think I'll probably go for it, unless things turn out much different thamn I expected. Serenity will use one of her own original jutsu, rather poetically named "Full Moon Shines Through the Gate," the final, most powerful in a series of non-element ninjutsu referencing the moon, and which she used to crack open a fortress in the Stone war. It takes almost a minute to pull off, requiring 108 seals and enough chakra that the user is actually lifted into the air in the middle of a ball of chakra similar to a full-sphere Kaiten. The sphere is disrupted and turning into one enormous beam of energy when the user blows a (chakra laden) kiss, and in fact sounds like a vastly-amplified kiss as it travels with the squeak of channeled chakra and then pops with a crash of inrushing air as large amounts of the target cease to exist.
While Auntie was asked to be Usagi's summoned elder because she'd had the largest reserves in clan history at that time, she originally died of chakra exhaustion after performing it... but Usagi, genin for a year, will not quite pass out, since Auntie will immediately cancel the summon and release the unused summoning chakra back to her. She'll be done for that battle, though, and need a few days to recover fully.
ETA2: Just decided, gonna do it, because I also came up wth a way to have an out if I decide I want Cockroachimaru again later - as a little hint, Sarutobi-sama is one of the very, very few non-clan members to have been offered the possibility of becoming a Tsukino elder-summon... and he accepted... and the contract was already drawn up shortly after he first retired, though it remains inactive while the subject remains alive. (His encyclopedic knowledge of jutsu from foreign countries as well as Fire was deemed too valuable to entrust only to written records, when as an elder summon he could demonstrate them directly.)
Oh, and using an elder summon doesn't change the user's appearance, unles they also perform a henge... and that just spawned a sudden side-thgouht - why wouldn't genin going through growth spurts and hence clumsy just use henge to turn into themselves as tey're accustoimed to being? I suppose it's just too difficult to hold in combat or if they need to do another jutsu, and by the time they've advanced enoguh to do so with ease they're usually at their full growth.
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Left at Albequerque - Valles - 01-14-2006
Quote:*soft whistle* Put like that, she's probably got more in her own right than Naruto does. She still wouldn't have any way to match his ability to call on his tenant's resources, but...
While Auntie was asked to be Usagi's summoned elder because she'd had the largest reserves in clan history at that time, she originally died of chakra exhaustion after performing it... but Usagi, genin for a year, will not quite pass out, since Auntie will immediately cancel the summon and release the unused summoning chakra back to her. She'll be done for that battle, though, and need a few days to recover fully.
Quote:My thought on how jutsu actually work is that the process of sealing alters, or contorts, the user's entire chakra system in ways that vary for each seal and, in combination, set up the the pattern than actually defines the jutsu before they throw power through it.
Oh, and using an elder summon doesn't change the user's appearance, unles they also perform a henge... and that just spawned a sudden side-thgouht - why wouldn't genin going through growth spurts and hence clumsy just use henge to turn into themselves as tey're accustoimed to being? I suppose it's just too difficult to hold in combat or if they need to do another jutsu, and by the time they've advanced enoguh to do so with ease they're usually at their full growth.
Since this process involves the entire chakra system, and since there are only eight points therein that never change or move, only one jutsu can be held or performed at a time... Well, except for that one Sound bastard and your Haruno, anyway.
N.'s gate trick does find a way around that, but if it's miscast then it can forcibly open the gate in question and even if it works right it takes literally days worth of preparation to bind even a single technique. He's been working on it ever since he entered the Academy, and only finally managed it within the last half-year or so.
And we're going to get a glimpse of what the Professor was like in his prime? Hot shit.
Ja, -n
(amused by synchronicity)
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"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
throwing off random ideas - Rieverre - 01-14-2006
Tsukino ... okay, pencil in Shingo as one of Konohamaru's sidekicks, hey? It works.
Usagi and the Tsukinos in general - naturally big Chakra reserves, but they have to _work_ to get at it, and work even _harder_ to, y'know, keep the Chakra from turning them into a crisp after burning its way through them. Hence the insane amount of Seals ... hey, waitaminunte.
No, wait, scratch the above.
108?
Ooooooh, brainfart! Err ... I mean brainstorm.
Okay, say, the Tsukinos' Chakra Pool That Makes Jounin Cry is hereditary _and_ the process of using it is something that veryveryvery _few_ in the Clan have ever managed to fully control. At most, they can only access parts of their reserves, as a natural defense of their bodies' Chakra pathways limits the amount they can use in one go(or, well, they die).
Still, teams with Tsukino Gennin are usually assigned the farthest training grounds, since they tend to ... ahem ... overpower whatever jutsus they use even with that defense in place.
Still, once you get to a certain level of control you can use more and more of that reserve. When Tsukino shinobi cross that point, they're taught about the only way to _safely_ release any significant amount of that Chakra pool into a jutsu - a system of Clan developed Seals that only work with the specific 'sort' of Chakra that the Tsukino bloodline has (ergo, Sharingan is useless in trying to copy it, because the Seals only work as they do with their bloodline).
There are 108 Seals in that system, and they call those Seals the Stars of Destiny. Most Tsukino only manage to use up to 25 of them successfully. Five in the past 50 years has been able to master in excess of 50. One in the entire history of the Clan has managed all 108, and that was Serenity.
Still, for all that power and all, the process of actually using the Stars is one that _must not_ be _hurried_ because otherwise ... well, crispy critter. Or vegetable. Also, interruptions? Bad thing.
Possible scene with assorted non Sound, non Sand Jounin, Chuunin and Gennin trying to keep any and all from breaking the 'crazy girl's' concentration and, y'know, blowing them all to hell when all that Chakra goes out of control.
So, Naruto would win, simply because he doesn't need to _worry_ about that stuff, what with Kyuubi and his constant regen, and can access his ridiculously deep reserves without preparation.
Or something.
... *rereads* did that make any sense?
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
Re: throwing off random ideas - classicdrogn - 01-15-2006
Sure they can be copied - the Chidori uses one of them... and while I hadn't thought of making it so explicit, I did put the number of seals at 108 with its significance in mind. They aren't more widely used because a) as noted, they CAN NOT be rushed, and b) you've got to throw some massive power into them or nothing happens, too much to risk on a single move unless you're absoultely certain you'll hit. Usagi does, indeed, probably have a bigger reserve than Naruto in his own right, but thanks to his tenant he can literally never run out, as long as the fuzzy bastard cooperates. The power involved is why the technique forms outside the body before it's realeased, the reason for the Stars is that each one of the set releases just barely less than the maximum the user's body can channel at once and not damage itself.
As for the 'no two jutsus' rule, I'm afraid not, N, because we've seen Naruto do it for Harem no Jutsu and to transform his real sefl into a fuuma shuriken while a kage bunshin threw him to Sasuke, and while I can't think of the specific instance I'm sure there's been at least one other person, without counting no-seal techniques like Rasengan or doujutsu.
I've been thinking about methods that advanced bloodlines come into being, also - I'm thinking that there's probably three major ways, all of which require being done either in utero or immediately after birth:
a) keep a jinchuuriki alive and relatively sane long enough to reach breeding age - the children with have a number of traits strongly reminiscent of the demon involved, with overall power depending on how strong the demon was. This is probably where the real wierdies like the Hoshigake and Orochimaru come from.
b) contract with some set of animals for each newborn of a family. They'll gradually get more and more traits resembling the contracted animals. Ex: The Inuzuka, with the enhanced senses, heavy clawlike fingernails, fangs, and ability to communicate with dogs, all of which get slightly more pronounced with each generation. Aburame are probably highly adapted also, but internally more than externally. Shizune, if she really does follow the Inuzuka-with-a-pig pattern, is from a much more recent clan.
c) do something that messes with the Celestial Gates - generally some kind of sealing, either directly or binding a minor demon or spirit in such a way that they feed power through one instead of into the main chakra system. This has the least real evidence, and would have the most varied effects, but logically if you mess with the View Gate in a permanently-altering manner, you get a dojutsu of some kind, and one might guess that while screwing with the Death Gate would be invariably fatal, Snakepants figured out some way to do both Life and Death gates without making Anko abort, and that's why Hotaru can heal or harm with a touch.
In all three cases, the reason the change is hereditary is that it's done before the chakra system has fully formed, and it therefore shapes the life around it, with how well it sticks for the next generation depending on how close a match can be found for a mate - Naruto and an Inuzuka girl would likely get kids who looked like he does semi-transformed by kyuubi chakra (whether that would eb a good or a bad thing is a bigger question, but just being in the company of the DOG clan is probably enough to piss the fox off; ) two doujutsu users are pretty much guaranteed to carry forward one of the doujutsu traits, though unless they're very similar to begin with a combination isn't likely; and the Yamanaka elders are definitely barking up the right tree as far as strengthening the bloodline, wanting to get Ino together with one of the Haruno twins.
Hypotheses, all, presented for the sake of argument and because world-building is fun.
- CD
ETA:
Quote:Well, that was the IDEA, but his soul is kind of bound up wth some others, you know?That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
And we're going to get a glimpse of what the Professor was like in his prime? Hot shit.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Summoning the Sandaime - drakensis - 01-15-2006
I strongly recommend that in that case he should not die trying to use the Yondaime's Kamikaze Sealing Jutsu - since that jutsu would probably render the contract moot.
On the other hand, if someone cracks the shield then there would be no need for that sort of move. Gai and Kakashi would probably be enough to counter the two Hokage that Orochimaru's summoned (even if they're not quite at that level they would be able to keep them from hindering Sarutobi) and without them, Snake-lips wasn't doing so well.
D for Drakensis
You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.
Re: Summoning the Sandaime - Rieverre - 01-15-2006
Okay, I can see two points of focus during that part of the story.
One of them being Serenity-in-Usagi trying to do her thing while the melee rages on around her with Sand and Sound nin trying to get her - we can throw the Senshi's DCs (at least some of them) into this, I think, and come out with a fairly good result.
The other being Sandaime and Snakeface fighting.
Barrier goes down. Gai and Kakashi join in.
In the background, Naruto, Lee and Rikou go against Gaara, Kankuro and Temari. OR. Naruto pulls out all the stops against Shukaku!Gaara. Just outside Konoha where the Blazing Orange Wildfire pulled the fight to not risk damaging the village further.
Meanwhile, Katsu and Zabuza use their talents for assassination techniques to go after the attack's commanders. Results vary. (will need to review the shinobi involved)
Where's the others and what're they doing?
Does Sandaime live through this? If so, what about Tsunade. How would she fit into all this? Ever notice how answers pull only more questions in their wake?
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
Re: Summoning the Sandaime - classicdrogn - 01-15-2006
Even if Sarutobi-sama lives, he'll be too injured and take too long to recover to continue as Hokage, so the Tsunade search will still happen. Let me spell out the summary of events as I'm seeing it at this time, as revised again having concluded that I really WON'T be needing the services of Mr. Most Evil Eyeshadow, and that Drakensis agreeing with my initial assessment is enough confirmation that the resurrection gambit I'd been thinking of wasn't all that plausible:
First fight is Tenten vs. Neji, thanks to Neshan's help getting ready for the finals she nickle-and-dimes him to defeat with thrown weapons that can sometimes even penetrate the kaiten and which use far less of her energy to trow than it takes him to defend in any case. She comes out looking really good as a first-gen ninja having beaten a genius of one of the strongest clans, which also serves to deliver the same attitude adjustment, since according to him it is the destiny of the clanless to face defeat when faced with skills and traditions honed by generations of refinement with an advanced bloodline.
Insert Katsu/Zabusa, because Temari/Shikamaru isn't all that exciting and I wouldn't want to just transcribe it even if it wasn't, the at least one more fight before Gaara and Naruto go down to the ring (having eliminated Sasuke because the curse seal was too restricting against Mina in the prelims.) Due to having met Jiraya earlier and being one training cycle ahead, Naruto blows a hole in the side of the sand-egg with the Rasengan, but because the force is not concentrated so much it doesn't actualy injure badger-boy, who keeps going with the transformation - it does tell tell Orochimaru that his invasion plan is toast, since Mr. Bloodthirsty Psycho couldn't wait for the signal to start pulling out his demon, so he attacks Sandaime-sama, and kabuto does the mass-sleep genjutsu.
Gai, Kakashi, Neshan, Sakura, Mina, and Shikamaru resist it, and Neshan recognises the technique but realises it needs to be countered so rest of the ninja in the stands can help deal with the attack before he hunts down Kabuto - Kakashi and Gai keep the Sand and Sound attacking the the stands off of him with the genin as a second line - Shikamaru keeps pretending to sleep until someone gets close, then blindsides them. With the wide-area dispel activarted, the rest of the attackers in the stadium are easily dealt with, and most leave to repel the invasion while a few stay to protect the various civilian dignitaries where they are, since the arena has been secured... or has it?
Gaara has transformed even as orders are being given, and several genin are dispatched to help Naruto against his sibs and lead him to the outskirts of town, told to attack only enough to keep the beast's attantion and lead it away until more help can come. Neshan explains that the barrier raised by the Four Sound will take a lot more work to break than the sleep genjutsu, Serenity tells him not to worry about it. She henges into her appearance before she'd died and says that she knows he was there, surely Kakashi hasn't forgotten THAT jutsu? He recognises her, asks if that's a good idea since it killed her the first time. Serenity assures him it will be all right, her grand-niece is really something special.
Some more Sand nin show up, just after she starts, and the neutral ninja are asked "Even though it's troublesome, please defend her for your own safety, because the energy of that jutsu will explode around her if the technique is interrupted." The Konoha ninja, meanwhile, try to keep the Sand away from the neutrals, because letting one of them get attacked could bring their country in on the side of the Sand and Sound, and are mostly successful - Katsu and Zabusa can indeed do the silent killing thing here on their own recognizance to assist.
With Shuukaku-Gaara drawn away from the stadium Naruto summons Gamabunta and it becomes a kaiju-battle, at which most of the other genin back off - several are wounded, and Naruto told the rest to get the others out of the area just before doing the summons. Realising they aren't capable of fighting at that scale, they head back to the stadium, since its medical rooms are a lot closer than the Konoha hospital. The remainder of that fight goes somewhat as in canon, save for Sakura not being sand-globbed to a tree - only Hinata (having quickly recovered from her fight against: ) and Rikou stay, mainly because this is NARUTO fighting and they can't possibly abandon him to the monster who crippled their team mate Lee - and not needing to combi-henge into a fox due to Naruto's greater offensive ability with Rasengan, even if it does take summoning a clone to help form it.
Fighting the big snake, Jiraya has summoned several other largeish toads, and some one asks when he had time to go summon Bunta to fight the other kaiju. Not even having had time to notice Bunta over on the other isde of town, he looks around, surprised, and says that it wasn't him, so it must have been the Uzumaki brat. The enquirer (Ebisu?) is shocked, but they don't have time for that, it's back to the fight.
Back at the stadium, Neshan has gone beetle-hunting and Serenity finishes her technique, knocking down the outer layer of the 'safe' and the upper floors of the building, so the Four Sound have to drop the inner layer voluntarily to catch their fall. The break in concentration also gets Sarutobi-sama out of the genjutsu trap just before he pulls out the Fuin Shiki Fuujin, and Gai and Kakashi jump in to assist, possibly others as well (Zabusa? Katsu? Other neutrals?) The Third tells them to go after Orochimaru, who decides to flee with the tables having been turned so, plus appoints Tenten acting Chuunin on the spot and tells her to take a team of four and pursue the Four Sound so they can't join up with Snake Boy. The resurected Nidaime and Shodaime warn that they won't stop just because their summoner has fled, to which The Professor gives a thin-lipped smile and tells Enma to transform again - then whips out Nidaime's Raiken, recovered form Aoi, and attacks.
Someone approaches through the trees as Shuukaku collapses into sand - it seems Kimimaro was sent for when Sasuke was eliminated and Kabuto failed to kidnap him from the hospital, and found yon Uchiha twerp angrily training just inside the walls instead of watching the tournement he'd been knocked out of. Kimi is carrying him unconscious over a shoulder, but headed into Konoha instead of out when he saw his beloved master's foreign puppet fall, intending to take out whoever was responsible - since Naruto is totally wiped out by now, and he arrives just after Temari and Kankuro leave with Gaara, this is what might be termed a 'shituation' for Our Hero.
Naturally, the girls jump in, and discover that they make a pretty good team, with Rikou's mist and ranged jutsus to distract and confuse him, while the Jyuukan ignores bone armor and toasts the meat inside. Naruto is just aware enough to thank Rikou and tell Hinata that he never knew she was so strong and amazing before passing out. Nathan, are you loving this yet? How about when I tell you that the genjutsu Rikou tried to use on Hinata in the prelims had lingering effects even after being dispelled?
Enma is forced to dispel, but has worn down Shodaime to where The Professor can take both his own senseis out, though his own wounds are prbably too great to survive them by more than a few seconds. Various scenes of elder relatives of the genin in the exam mopping up the invaders.
Neshan vs. Kabuto - it may be desireable to have him escape, plot-wise, or to have an ambiguous death that he could have escaped from.
As for the other pursuits, Choji has already stayed to deal with Jirobu, Rei takes Tayuya, her spirit wards dispelling the giants and the crows reducing the effect of the genjutsu by telling her what's where, plus her whistle arrows disrupt the music. Shikamaru the Strategist vs. Ukon and Sakon the Skull-Fuckers should be good, for a while at least, and Tenten has ranged attacks to try to deal with Kidomaru.
Kakashi and Gai vs. Orochimaru, they're just BARELY falling behind, even with him worn down by his former sensei. Who to have come as reinforcements against the second stage curse seals is open to question, but either Anko or Jiraya should get the finishing blow on that bastard - they both owe him for one thing or another. I lean toward Anko.
Beyond that... Eh, I dunno. this is already a lot more detailed than I wanted to get, when I'm only at 20% or less of the first arc, and there's a minimum or three between it and this.
- CD
ETA: Fights are up for grabs - I might do Rikou/Neji and Tenten/Temari, and have Shika vs. someone else, with the K/Z scene to cover the interlude while he strategises.
Edit 2: I swear, I'm not typing drunk, so there must be a gremlin in my keyboard to cause all those typos.That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Summoning the Sandaime - Valles - 01-15-2006
Quote:Hardly surprising. The man's, what, seventy-plus? Thinking about it, I'm actually kind of surprised that they didn't go draft Tsunade when Yondaime died...
Even if Sarutobi-sama lives, he'll be too injured and take too long to recover to continue as Hokage, so the Tsunade search will still happen.
Quote:Well, not that exciting if you don't see anything interesting about playing chess. ^_^ Honestly that's why I'd pair her with Shika instead of Ino - firepower and tough bitch attitude aside, she's nearly as much of a thinker, a strategist, as he is.
Temari/Shikamaru isn't all that exciting and I wouldn't want to just transcribe it even if it was
Of course, my real favorite option is based on a certain piece of fanart that's floating around, but that's neither here nor there at the moment.
Quote:'Beetle hunting'? Looking for Kabuto, you mean? Well, with Serenity finished and him likely among the ninja that've thus been freed up to take off for the more active parts of the battle, he'd be the logical choice - even if describing K as having a twisty mind is like saying a snake walks funny, he'd still be the best qualified to try and guess where he'd go next...
Back at the stadium, Neshan has gone beetle-hunting
It occurs to me that a truly high-level medi-nin might know a jutsu that'd let him replicate Akadou Yoroi's chakra draining trick - possibly at much greater speed. Even without that, though, this Neshan won't have as much information to work from as the other did, and won't be as dangerous... and most chuunin have a major endurance advantage over him, let alone Kabuto and after pulling off a major seal to boot - seals might be more efficient, but not that much so.
Hm. So now I need to cook up a major fight scene for them...
Quote:^_^ You know it.
Nathan, are you loving this yet?
Quote:*leans forward* Tell me more...
How about when I tell you that the genjutsu Rikou tried to use on Hinata in the prelims had lingering effects even after being dispelled?
Ja, -n
===========
===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
Re: Summoning the Sandaime - classicdrogn - 01-15-2006
Quote:I'm not saying it's dull per se, just that I don't see the point in covering it in detail if I'm not going to change anything, espescially when there's a good dozen other fight scenes in this sequence already.
Well, not that exciting if you don't see anything interesting about playing chess. ^_^
Quote:That's the bunny! And I didn't say he had to do it alone. Shino springs immediately to mind, and / or Haruno Ichimaru, the ANBU jounin.
'Beetle hunting'? Looking for Kabuto, you mean? Well, with Serenity finished and him likely among the ninja that've thus been freed up to take off for the more active parts of the battle, he'd be the logical choice - even if describing K as having a twisty mind is like saying a snake walks funny, he'd still be the best qualified to try and guess where he'd go next...
Quote:Well, it's supposed to be an emotion-affecting genjutsu, that reverses the targets goals, so they'll consider freinds enemies and enemies freinds. Instead, it made her love-rival into her target and her target her rival, plus dropping some inhibitions, per ... whoever it was, I can't rmemeber now... the post about her coming on and clingy with Rikou and Neji laughing his ass off (granted, he'd just be smirking, more likely) in the prelims - but even after being released and she goes back to mainly focussing on Rikou, she can't quite see her rival as being so terribly bad any more...
Tell me more...
Of course, it takes her most of the interval between the preliminary rounds and the finals just to stop curling into a beet-red ball of embarrrassment, and only the fact that she has to pay attention now or Naruto could get hurt is able to make her actually talk to Rikou without relapsing (*pichupichu* "... that's... not fair..." ) in the fight. By the end, though, the shared brush with death turns them into freindly rivals at worst, both glowing after being thanked by their mutual interest.
Now, granted, they are still only twelve and thirteen, no no one's going to be popping off for a roll in the bushes, but I seem to recall SOMEONE (nudge nudge) waving a "Go Poly" banner at one point, so I'm guessing WHOEVER that might have been could possibly interpret these events in accordance with what they wanted to see.
- CD
ETA: A few notes on what I said before, though no one seems to have taken issue with them - Hotaru probably has had her Heal and Wound gates fiddled with, not Life and Death, and the Star of Destiny seal in Chidori is the "Special Bird" used in one of the versions of the seals shown used to perform it - which seem to be different every damn time. Well, bag that, it's the version with "Special Bird," which is one of the Stars dealing with lightning and focus.
Full Moon Shines Through the Gate uses all of the Stars to build a perfectly balanced structure of chakra around the user (requiring, obviously, that they have the control to put exactly the same amount of chakra into all 108, and even Usagi doesn't have enough to just pour the max into each one) and then disrupts it with, literally, just a breath more.
Also, saying that the Stars each channel just slightly less than the amount of chakra that will harm the user's body doesn't mean that's the same for everyone - Sasuke's reserves aren't anywhere near two thirds of Kakashi's, rather Kakashi's chidori are considerably more powerful, so if, for example, it was an RPG and Sasuke had a chakra pool of five, with each Chidori taking two points, Kakshi's pool is probably twenty or so and each one can be up to six points... only more so, unless chakra points were like Kingdom Hearts magic points. The fact that this makes Usagi's pool in the region of 120, given that she has to do a summoning first that's strong enough to last long enough to do the technique, and there's a high minimum for each Star, is why I keep saying "The Chakra Pool that Makes Jounin Cry." Only the San-Nin, kage, and some Akatsuki would have more on their own, and jinchuuriki when their demons are cooperating. Of course, it's no good if you can't use it, and Auntie is quite firm about not letting Usagi just call her up and smash enemies with overwhelming force, at least until she's TRIED to fight on her own or is obviously overwhelmingly outmatched. Also, as noted, finding time to use more than one or two Stars in a series of seals when you're in a combat situation is a challenege on its own, since they can't be rushed or interrupted - normal ninjutsu, if pumped with abnormally huge amounts of chakra, are usually the rule with the occasional single-seal Stars technique like Blade of the Crescent Moon. (AKA the Golden Frisbee of Doom, Discs of LunarTron, or Moon Tiara Action.)That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
Next morning, Harry found himself butt-naked in the other side of town, mouth tasting of lima beans. - from Uzumaki Harry by Shadow Crystal Mage
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows