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+--- Thread: Do you use PayPal? (/showthread.php?tid=11432)
Do you use PayPal? - Bob Schroeck - 10-14-2012
You might want to write them a very special letter right away: they've slipped a "forced arbitration" clause into their terms of use that takes away your right to sue them or participate in class action suits against them. And the only way to opt out of it is in writing, with a real signature, mailed to their litigation department.
More information here.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- robkelk - 10-14-2012
Is that even legal in Canada?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
- ECSNorway - 10-15-2012
Ebay has done the same thing. No surprise, since they're the same company.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
- Sweno - 10-15-2012
And one more example of why I don't use paypal (and therefore ebay).
They are acting like a bank, with none of the obligations or oversight that a normal bank has.
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy
- jpub - 10-15-2012
robkelk Wrote:Is that even legal in Canada?
nope.
RE: Do you use PayPal? - Jorlem - 10-15-2012
Thanks for the heads up. I passed it along to my brother, and he responded with this, a story about Microsoft sneaking changes in their policies.
Edit:
On a more related note, I received this email this morning:
Notice of Policy Updates
Dear [My Name],
PayPal recently posted a new Policy Update which includes changes to the PayPal User Agreement.
The update to the User Agreement is effective November 1, 2012 and contains
several changes, including changes that affect how claims you and
PayPal have against each other are resolved. You will, with limited
exception, be required to submit claims you have against PayPal to
binding and final arbitration, unless you opt out of the Agreement to
Arbitrate (Section 14.3) by December 1, 2012. Unless you opt out: (1)
you will only be permitted to pursue claims against PayPal on an
individual basis, not as a plaintiff or class member in any class or
representative action or proceeding and (2) you will only be permitted
to seek relief (including monetary, injunctive, and declaratory relief)
on an individual basis.
You can view this Policy Update by logging
in to your PayPal account. To log in to your account, go to
http://www.paypal.com and enter your member log in information. Once
you are logged in, look at the Notifications section on the top right
side of the page for the latest Policy Updates. We encourage you to review
the Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that
have been made.
If you need help logging in, go to our Help Center by clicking the Help
link located in the upper right-hand corner of any PayPal page.
Sincerely,
PayPal
Note how they give absolutely no information on how one goes about opting out?
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber." --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.
- Bob Schroeck - 10-15-2012
Note also that they fail to inform you that by logging in to see the new terms, you've accepted the new terms...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- Jorlem - 10-15-2012
...
Clever Girl...
That is devilishly cunning. Yikes.
Well, the new terms don't actually take effect until Nov. 1st. Does that mean one could look at them without accepting them until then? Or is the mere act of considering reading the terms enough to bind one to them? My guess is closer to the latter, and would be, except I am working under the assumption that Paypal is not monitering my every thought. YET.
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber." --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.
- robkelk - 10-16-2012
Bob Schroeck Wrote:Note also that they fail to inform you that by logging in to see the new terms, you've accepted the new terms...Unless basic contract law in the USA is vastly different from basic contract law in Canada, that one's definitely illegal. One must be able to read an agreement before deciding whether to be bound by it.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
- Foxboy - 10-16-2012
Never mind that they intentionally make the damn things hard to read for "normal" people...
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
- Bob Schroeck - 10-16-2012
robkelk Wrote:It may be illegal, but some software outfits have been doing it for years with physically-packaged products. Legal challenges to this kind of thing are only now working their way through the courts here in the States.Bob Schroeck Wrote:Note also that they fail to inform you that by logging in to see the new terms, you've accepted the new terms...
Unless basic contract law in the USA is vastly different from basic contract law in Canada, that one's definitely illegal. One must be able to read an agreement before deciding whether to be bound by it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.