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Things Saber is older than... - Printable Version +- Drunkard's Walk Forums (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums) +-- Forum: General (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=10) +--- Thread: Things Saber is older than... (/showthread.php?tid=14688) |
Things Saber is older than... - Labster - 02-11-2024 We've had to decide where in history to put Artoria Pendragon, our very own Saber. From the legends, there are two periods which fit the most: the High Middle Ages, a time of crusaders and chivalry, and sub-Roman Britain, a break in the historical record which can accommodate legendary figures among native Britons. We're going with the earlier time period, 407-577 AD, largely because it offers some of the other elements of the story -- roughly Welsh/Cornish/Brythonic sounding names, an invasion of pagans taking on the Christian people of Britain (i.e. Angles, Saxons, and Jutes who would later win... and then later convert to Christianity), and a more blank slate into which to write. Romans withdrew their last soldiers from Britain in 407, after the Groans of the Britons, circa 450, they disappear from the historical record completely. Historian and archaeologists are currently on the peaceful immigration meme, just as they supported the tribal conquest meme before 1950, so it's hard to know what really happened. This thread is about that time, which I don't think people really have a sense of. So what is our Artoria older than?
Just on the topic of of women as rulers, I think there's enough evidence that a female!Arthur as a "king" is at least plausible, historically. Besides Jadwiga, others included precursor Pharoahs like Nefertiti and Cleopatra VI. Matilda of Tuscany was an enormously powerful margravine of the Holy Roman Empire in the late eleventh century, and was crowned "Vice-Queen" of Italy in 1111. It's hard to tell what title Boudica had, given all of our sources are Roman, but she would have ruled in her own right had the Romans not contested the will. Boudica is closer in time to our Artoria than Jadwiga, though! Yes, this is a relatively short list of women in power, but it's much more possible than a female Empress of Japan (though there were many powerful Dowager Queens in Korea and the Ottoman Empire). And much, much, much more plausible than a female Leonardo da Vinci, as suggested in the later Fate works. There's a tradition of feminist reinterpretations of King Arthur, but not so much of randomly genderswapping people with mountains of written documents about their lives for fanservice. RE: Things Saber is older than... - Dartz - 02-12-2024 Patricius was introducing the Irish to the Church at around the same time. .... it's been all downhole from then on. RE: Things Saber is older than... - Labster - 02-12-2024 Oh, that’s a good point, there were still snakes in Ireland back then. RE: Things Saber is older than... - Labster - 03-15-2024 New item Saber is older than: sabres. Obviously she's older than the word sabre, which seemed to enter the Western lexicon when Hungarians moved into Hungary. But even the concept of the curved sword seems to come later, based on 15 minutes of Wikipediing. Possibly 7th or 8th century. Which isn't too surprising, based on how hard ironworking is. It seems like Mongols and the like spread the curved sword from central Asia... where I'm guessing the curved shape would be good on horseback? Obviously the Japanese like the word sabre based on how easy "seiba" is to pronounce compared to "suoruddo". Artoria's sword looks something like a spatha, being definitely too big to be a gladius. I'm half-tempted to say that the anime made Caliburn appear too big as an element of deconstruction. RE: Things Saber is older than... - Norgarth - 03-15-2024 well, curved swords are better for slashing attacks than straight swords, and that's the most common kind of attack to do while you're riding past somebody, so it makes sense that a horseback based culture would prefer them. Plus stabbing a target as you're riding past it has a good chance of you losing your weapon due to being stuck in the target. RE: Things Saber is older than... - Labster - 12-15-2024 New item Saber is not older than: character classes for fighters. I was reading this, well, very extended errata for a review of Gladiator II. The tl;dr;dw of the review is: Ridley Scott managed to make an interesting period of history very boring so he could shoehorn in anti-gay, pro-fascist tropes. (Movie: brother emperors were sickly, effeminate redheads living decadent lifestyles in Rome. Real life: Brothers had north African heritage, one had his brother killed while in his mother's arms, his mother continued to serve as her son's regent while he spent the rest of his life leading armies in the provinces.) But then I came across this bit: Quote:Gladiators were not general-purpose warriors, but highly specialized performers, typically fighting in one of several well-defined, visibly distinct stylized combat roles. So for instance the retiarius (‘net-man’) was lightly armored, fast and fought with a net and a long trident (evoking a fisherman), typically against a secutor (‘follower, chaser’), a heavily armored fighter with a large shield, helmet and arm protections, but with only a sword. So the retiarius is less heavily armored, but faster with a longer reach weapon, while the secutor had the clear advantage in a close-in fight. Gladiators would train on a specific type and often be paired against opposing types. So the secutor and retiarius were a matched pair, but equally murmillones (heavily armored sword-and-shield fighters) were often employed against either the thraex or hoplomachus type. And in fact Wikipedia has a list of Roman Gladiator classes. So the idea of arranging a competition for different kinds of warriors, who were strong and weak against certain other types, could have been known to Artoria. Whether she knew it for sure depends on how long Roman style games lasted, how much became oral tradition, and how many artifacts and texts survived. One thing I've wondered about even the royalty of Britain is how much access to scholarship one would have in the 400s. Romans had tons and tons of writing, but it was done on papyrus, which came all the way from Egypt. Once the empire, and thus the massive (pirate-)free trade zone broke down, goods like papyri became very expensive outside the Eastern Empire. And papyri only last around 100 years outside of the dryness of Egypt and the Levant. If Europeans wanted to save knowledge, they had to copy them to expensive pages of parchment and vellum. This would have been the time that Brittanic history and culture was literally falling apart, scrolls fraying away a word at a time. And then a horde of illterate pagans invaded and gradually took over. As upset as I have been about Trump lately, things are simply not that bad in our times. |