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+--- Thread: A Few Questions (/showthread.php?tid=1981)
A Few Questions - Shinkaze - 09-02-2007
Hi, I'm thinking of trying to join in but I've got a few questions to ask.
First, what is the state of shipping in fenspace, specifically between mars,venus, and earth.
Second, is there room for a moderately large vessel (say a 'waved container ship) and attendant ships (cars) to be a profitable (if minor) shipping business, or does Hermes Universal Deliveries have that pretty much covered.
I had more questions but I'm drawing a complete blank now, sorry.Thanks in advance though.
Re: A Few Questions - Bob Schroeck - 09-02-2007
Hey, Shinkaze, welcome to the forums! Take your time on the questions, there's no rush. There is shipping in Fenspace, a couple of companies are in the Gazetteer already, but the market is far from saturated -- it could easily support many more competitors. And a 'waved container ship could easily become very useful -- and a focal point for the Boskonian conflict, too...
-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.
Re: A Few Questions - robkelk - 09-02-2007
I'll echo Bob (in both the greeting and the state of the art of shipping), and add a few other thoughts...
Hermes Universal Deliveries is the oldest company in Fenspace, but it's pretty much a background entity - if a plotline needs a delivery to happen, then a HUD ship shows up with the package. There's a few companies that do their own shipping, but they're specialized concerns (such as the mining operations on Mercury).
There's nobody telling stories about a general shipping company yet, so you'd have a wide-open field if that's the sort of story you want to tell.
I know you haven't asked yet, but as for what gets shipped where... There's always the opportunity for a "one off" shipment, so these are just guidelines.
* Most "finished goods" and luxury foods come from Earth and go to the other planets and stations.
* Venus exports carbon and hydrocarbon products (including industrial-diamond building materials), and imports food and anything useful for a terraforming project.
* Mars has some of the largest shipyards in the system (the Trekkies like building ships), and imports biomass.
* Both the Island and Stellvia have extensive shopping and hotel facilities, and need the sort of supplies that keep stores and hotels running. They rarely export anything (except possibly "pre-enjoyed biomass", which goes to Mars).
* And somebody willing to hitch a ride on a "tramp steamer" could be going from anywhere to anywhere...
-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Re: A Few Questions - Cobalt Greywalker - 09-02-2007
There is in fact one container ship in Fenspace, the WDF Wayward Son.
It's also M. Fnord's baby; see this page of the Plotbunny Thread. Maybe he'll let you borrow it, and no-one's using it.
M. Fnord, any advice you'd like to dispense?
Re: A Few Questions - M Fnord - 09-02-2007
Quote:If somebody wants to use the Wayward Son, they're quite welcome to do so; I honestly just put that one in as a throwaway reference, never expecting it to be anything more than background color. But if the idea appeals...---
It's also M. Fnord's baby; see this page of the Plotbunny Thread. Maybe he'll let you borrow it, and no-one's using it.
M. Fnord, any advice you'd like to dispense?
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
Re: A Few Questions - Norgarth - 09-02-2007
The Starhawk (from my infrequent posts) is a cargo hauler, but nowhere near the size of a cargo ship (it's a converted cargo plane).
Plus a lot of their work is shipping to/from Babylon .5 station.
I gotta admit that a cargoship like Shinkaze is suggesting would be useful, especially for hauling bulky cargo like 'previously enjoyed biomass'
![[Image: tongue.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif)
, large volumes of gases/liquids or raw ore from the Belt.__________________666-HELL The phone number of the Beast
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin
A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - M Fnord - 09-02-2007
This is from old, old notes, so take with salt as necessary.
Mercury
Supply: Heavy metals; solar energy.
Demand: Water; oxygen; nitrogen; biomass; carbon.
Venus
Supply: Carbon; oxygen; carbon dioxide; nitrogen; sulfur; hydrocarbons.
Demand: Water; hydrogen; biomass.
Earth
Supply: Manufactured goods; luxuries; biomass.
Demand: Hydrocarbons; helium; metals; IP.
Luna
Supply: Manufactured goods; aluminum; oxygen.
Demand: Water; hydrogen; nitrogen; biomass.
Mars
Supply: Metals; manufactured goods.
Demand: Biomass; nitrogen; oxygen.
Asteroid Belt
Supply: Metals; carbon; water.
Demand: Manufactured goods; oxygen; nitrogen; biomass.
Jupiter
Supply: Hydrogen; helium; water; organics.
Demand: Manufactured goods; nitrogen; metals; biomass.
Saturn
Supply: Hydrogen; helium; hydrocarbons; organics; nitrogen; water.
Demand: Manufactured goods; metals; biomass.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Kokuten - 09-03-2007
Hephaestus
Supply: Industrial Tools; Industrial Metals; Marijuana, Ships and Ship Parts.
Demand: Biological Engineering(finished product and engineers); Electronics; Media& Entertainment; Industrial Chemicals.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Kokuten - 09-03-2007
As for container ships, don't neglect the Fateful Lightning - which is a nest of container ships.
We don't have a delivery company per se, save for superfast priority zero-plus-plus cargo, and HUD. What we're missing is DHL in Space..
Hephaestus delivers a lot of it's heavy stuff under it's own power, but it would be nice to have a DHL franchise upstairs, so I don't have to bop off to Mars to deliver a box of drill bits.. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Bob Schroeck - 09-03-2007
Grover's Corners
Supply: Produce, horse manure, compost, general organics, kittens; (Optional: Water and other ices, if we do the "Martian Way" thing to the Oort cloud)
Demand: Non-vegetable foodstuffs, asphalt, one (1) bulldozer
-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Shinkaze - 09-03-2007
Wow, I wasn't expecting such a detailed response.Actually, one of the questions I forgot was what was shipped where so that works out nicely.
I'd completely forgot about the WDF Wayward Son actually, I only remembered Hermes Universal Deliveries and The Masaka.The kind of ship I was thinking of was a container ship with RoRo (roll on roll off) capability (mostly because I was wandering through wikipedia after reading some fenspace stories, and when I came across the RoRo page the first thing that came to mind was hangar bay
![[Image: happy.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif)
).My original concept included a couple of tractor units (semi-trailer trucks) and several "company cars" for smaller deliveries, so the DHL in Space idea is really interesting, but I originally thought about a container ship because they require such a small crew that, with the level of automation I'm imagining, it could reasonably be crewed by five or six people (I don't think I could create a much bigger crew).On the other hand, that brings to mind an idea I had about the company picking up a nickname because of the ship's cat (Cabbit Express
).I did remember one of the other questions I had (though its kind of stupid). In broad terms, what kind of money does the shipping industry in fenspace make (mostly because I'm not really sure what's considered a significant amount of money in fenspace). (I'm not really happy with the wording of that question, but I hope I got the idea across).
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - robkelk - 09-03-2007
(Bob)
Quote:Stellvia would like to enter into a long-term contract with Grover's Corners regarding the exchange of cloned vat-grown beef and pork (which has the texture and consistency of ground meat) and fresh fruits. Please contact Noah Scott at his published Interwave address if you wish to explore this opportunity. (hand-written PS: Folks, got any fresh apples? Leda likes them... -Noah)
Grover's Corners
Supply: Produce ... Demand: Non-vegetable foodstuffs ...
Quote:Unless you plan to use it quite a bit, why not just rent the one that Hephaestus owns?
... one (1) bulldozer
(Shinkaze)
Quote:I like... One concern, though: unless you modify the ship's hull, it can't set down on Luna, Venus or Mars. This isn't a big problem on Venus (simply keep the engines running and dock to a Crystal City instead of landing in it), but it'll limit your Mars traffic to Port Phobos, and make Luna traffic impossible. On the flip side, if you do modify the hull, you might have trouble setting down on Earth...
The kind of ship I was thinking of was a container ship with RoRo (roll on roll off) capability (mostly because I was wandering through wikipedia after reading some fenspace stories, and when I came across the RoRo page the first thing that came to mind was hangar bay
Would somebody with better engineering skills than mine care to comment?
Quote:I believe modern container ships have crews of about a dozen, and that's without a friendly AI on board to handle the minor details. (Most of the heavy work is done in port, and the port supplies the personnel for that.) "Five or six people" sounds right to me.
with the level of automation I'm imagining, it could reasonably be crewed by five or six people (I don't think I could create a much bigger crew)
Quote:It's not a stupid question, trust me. Speaking as the primary writer of "the richest SOB in Fenspace"... Fen businesses make as much money as they need to for plot purposes. If you want the business to take off, then the terraforming project on Mars and Venus will pay top dollar for "pre-enjoyed biomass" (which is realistic at this stage of the terraforming process for Mars) as soon as you advertise your existance, and Earth-side water treatment plants will be happy to sell it to you. If you want the company to be struggling, then people aren't going to trust a newcomer until they've proven themselves and you can't prove yourselves until somebody trusts you, so you're stuck shipping a single container of consumer electronics from Earth to Stellvia each quarter... I suspect you'd want something between those extremes.
I did remember one of the other questions I had (though its kind of stupid). In broad terms, what kind of money does the shipping industry in fenspace make (mostly because I'm not really sure what's considered a significant amount of money in fenspace).
And if you really want to have fun with money, worry about tracking the exchange rate between the Solar Credit and the Australian Dollar...
![[Image: glasses.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/glasses.gif)
(I don't bother.)-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Bob Schroeck - 09-04-2007
Quote:Sure, sounds like a plan. Apples? We can do that, I think... Just gotta remember which farm they were one.
Stellvia would like to enter into a long-term contract with Grover's Corners regarding the exchange of cloned vat-grown beef and pork (which has the texture and consistency of ground meat) and fresh fruits. Please contact Noah Scott at his published Interwave address if you wish to explore this opportunity. (hand-written PS: Folks, got any fresh apples? Leda likes them... -Noah)
Quote:That works. We just need to plow out a couple roads for easier access to our airlocks.
Unless you plan to use it quite a bit, why not just rent the [bulldozer] that Hephaestus owns?
-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Ebony - 09-04-2007
Quote:Bob, we've got some surveying equipment in the Bus that we used for the Mumbai floods in 2010. You're welcome to borrow it to keep those straight. We can hand it off to the Foundry folks, if they don't have anything appropriate for contoured terrain.
We just need to plow out a couple roads for easier access to our airlocks.
You'd be surprised how much surveying is required for percussive landscaping....Ebony the Black Dragon
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
http://www.lrgames.com
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com
"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Kokuten - 09-04-2007
Quote:"Cat" Is available - since we got 'Up', we haven't had much of a need for the kind of work he was designed for.
Bulldozer
I think it would be beneficial to his mental health, also. He may not be a full-up sentient AI, but there's nothing quite so pathetic as a whining bulldozer.. I can drop a battery in and rig a transit bubble, might be easier to just tow him over and reactivate him once he's in GC grav..
hrm.
FREE CAT TO GOOD HOME - LIKES CHILDREN AND OTHER CATSWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Kokuten - 09-05-2007
![[Image: craigslist2.jpg]](http://www.tertiary.net/drop/craigslist2.jpg)
*whistles innocently*Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Bob Schroeck - 09-05-2007
You really like doing these snapshots from the future, don't you?
Sure, we'll take Cat on. We've got a lot of room to spare for him to play in when we don't need him.
-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Kokuten - 09-05-2007
Quote:Yep! It's the main reason I subscribe to Wired, after all. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
You really like doing these snapshots from the future, don't you?
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Shinkaze - 09-06-2007
Sorry I haven't posted for a couple of days, I was a bit busy ( and I was hoping some more people would post,heh).
Glad you like the RoRo idea, as for altering the hull, I have no idea so I'd like to second that request for advice.
I've been doing some prelimanary work (character writeups mostly). I'm wondering, I was originally going to have the ship lift off just before the U.S. handwavium laws came into affect in 2008, but the reason the characters came up with the idea for the ship (the terraforming projects) doesn't happen until after that. Do you think I should have the ship launch later or try to find a reason for them to have the idea earlier?
And I guess nobody liked my cabbit joke, huh (though, looking at my previous post, I should probably mention that they would get the nickname because the ship's cat tagged along on some of the first deliveries and is very affectionate, sorry I didn't make that clearer
![[Image: embarassed.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif)
).
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - robkelk - 09-07-2007
I suspect there really won't be enough shipping to make a container ship feasable until after the terraforming projects get going, but there's nothing saying you have to buy the ship at an American port. (Australia and plenty of African nations recognized Fenspace from nearly the beginning, after all.) And that only pushes the launch from 2008 to 2010...
-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - Shinkaze - 09-08-2007
Yeah, that would work, the only problem is that I know next to nothing about africa or australia, so I'm not sure how well I could write any parts of the "origin" story I'm planning that were set there. How would the australian government react to the idea of a bunch of people 'waving a container ship anyways?
Re: A Quick Guide to Supply & Demand - CattyNebulart - 09-08-2007
Quote:Well there is not that much known about the Australian gov. chances are that they would be ok with it since they are noted to be wave-friendly. just don't pollute the water or anything with wave, I doubt they are that friendly.
Yeah, that would work, the only problem is that I know next to nothing about africa or australia, so I'm not sure how well I could write any parts of the "origin" story I'm planning that were set there. How would the Australian government react to the idea of a bunch of people 'waving a container ship anyways?
A lot of the details still have to be filled in and of course the government is not some monolithic block there are a ton of people with their own motivations and petty squabbles that make up the government. So whatever you write will be correct. a daunting prospect I know ^_^
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."