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Discussion on the Catboy Machine and Biomolding - Rakhasa - 09-27-2012
There has been a discussion about some tech in one of Cobalt's fics that is derailing the Rockhounds, so I am moving it to its own thread.
The fic is this one:
Following the Curve, 2014
And while it is set in 2014, the date may be retconned to 2023, pending Cobalt's opinion. all the arguments have been under the assumption that this was not abailable in the 201's
The comments are here:
Quote:Rakhasa wrote:
Quote:ECSNorway wrote:Did something come out of the catboying machine (meant to be used with catgirls) which I saw mentioned somewhere, or did I actually imagine/dream it?
...
Charlie's still working on the gender issues.)
Quote:robkelk wrote:
As yet, there is no Catboy Machine. (Or, at the least, nobody's revealed one in fiction.) However, there are other ways to get a cat-person biomod; they're just one-off and unreliable...
Quote:Rakhasa wrote:
Quote:[b]robkelk wrote:[/b]Are you sure? I was certain ~runs to wiki search~ A-ha! I knewI had not dreamed it:
As yet, there is no Catboy Machine. (Or, at the least, nobody's revealed one in fiction.) However, there are other ways to get a cat-person biomod; they're just one-off and unreliable...
http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?titl ... Curve_2014
The part about biomolding (note the "l"):
However, you're probably thinking about the latest in the realm of Biomods.
The first of these is the recently named Biomolding process. Based on detailed examinations of the infamous Catgirling Machine, this allows the victims of that device to change their appearances to something more comfortable. Interestingly, the biomolding process allows multiple moldings of a subject. This means subjects of this and its parent machine are not technically biomods anymore. It's still very rough tech and there aren't many around, not to mention creating the framework design is complex for even Wave A.I.'s, so don't get your hopes up.
There are of course downsides. The first and most important is that, baring the capture of Dr. Asmodeus Grey or a very good medical complete with 3D-imaging scan and a DNA sample, there is no way to return to a pre-molded state. Second, once your biomolded, that's it. You have too much wave in you to be anything else, and if you aren't careful with the framework you'll lose any abilities (biomod or not) you have. Third, every biomold result has a homeostasis effect. While this means that (baring a rapidly fatal or a brain injury) they'll heal rapidly and completely, any change to the body form will regenerate (including lost limbs). So, cybertech enhancement of biomolds is out for the moment. Fourth, the unfortunate discovery of the Heinrick limit when Jules Heinrick died attempting to remold himself two months after he last did it. Currently, the limit is set at three months between biomoldings. Anyone assisting in a remold of someone under this limit is currently to be charged with being an accessory to murder, and any survivors will be charged with attempted murder.
There are also a couple of specific molding machine types around from the development of the general biomolding machines. The Catboying machine proved fairly popular for those desperate to regain their original gender, even if they are very bishonen afterwards. The Puma-ising machine generates some interest from people wanting to join FESWAT, given as it renders the subject into a version of one of the Shirow Puma Twins. Being an extremely tough, hard-bodied and voluptuous six foot plus amazon is a bit of a bonus apparently (even with the cat ears, which are surprisingly useful according to those currently in action).
It mentions quite a few important breakthrougs; and 2014 seems way too early for most of then. Since this was originally writen for a "2014" that was the next season, we may consider retconning it to 2023...
Edit: Since the article is about general research of unspecified authors, instead of A.C. Peters own research, we may outsource the study of the Catgirl Machine to Jenga, which have a machine, a reseach department and a clear interest in studiing it. An idea: After the Pan terrorist attack thas is beign written now, the catgilrs realize that their medical department are rather lacking, so one or sevealr of then begin to study medicine, with the biomoldong machines as an end resl after some time.
Quote:robkelk wrote:
Quote:Rakhasa wrote:That's probably a good idea... Cobalt, any objection?
Quote:[b]robkelk wrote:[/b]Are you sure? I was certain ~runs to wiki search~ A-ha! I knewI had not dreamed it:
As yet, there is no Catboy Machine. (Or, at the least, nobody's revealed one in fiction.) However, there are other ways to get a cat-person biomod; they're just one-off and unreliable...
http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?titl ... Curve_2014
...
It mentions quite a few important breakthrougs; and 2014 seems way too early for most of then. Since this was originally writen for a "2014" that was the next season, we may consider retconning it to 2023...
Quote:HRogge wrote:
Quote:Rakhasa wrote:Yes, there will be some reorientation towards this blind spot...
Edit: Since the article is about general research of unspecified authors, instead of A.C. Peters own research, we may outsource the study of the Catgirl Machine to Jenga, which have a machine, a reseach department and a clear interest in studiing it. An idea: After the Pan terrorist attack thas is beign written now, the catgilrs realize that their medical department are rather lacking, so one or sevealr of then begin to study medicine, with the biomoldong machines as an end resl after some time.
(Biomolding as 'cat wants other furcolor' machine?)
Quote:Rakhasa wrote:
Quote:HRogge wrote:That's why God created dyejobs
(Biomolding as 'cat wants other furcolor' machine?As I understood it when I read the fic, it is more like "cat wants to be a dog" -you are still modded, but you alter the biomod a little bit to beter fit your tastes.
But even if biomodling is seriously limited, a simple gender change that lets the rest of the biomod the same would work wonders for the psyche of a number of accidentally biomodded, the least of which aren't the catgirls...
Quote:HRogge wrote:
Even when CI starts doing research on biotech (like the catgirling machine process), I am not sure they are (from meta perspective) right group to develop things like Biomolding... is Biomolding even related to the Catgirling machine?
Quote:Rakhasa wrote:
Reading the fic again, it is unclear -the Machine was an obvious inspiration ("We stick someone in the biomolding machine and they come out changed") but wheter the relation is closer.
Still, this looks like it may be an actual accidental discovery: Someone tries to revert the catgirl process, which fails, of course, as it is a biomod. But eventuallly somehow they manage to get a catgirl to return to his original gender, and the process grows from that. I think it should be a different biomold machine for each change -one for catboys, one for wolf-to-fox anthros, one so aquatic Monsters of the Black Lagoon turn amphibian and so can breathe air...
This first machine would be done by someone who is working on the catgirls. Jenga is the one everyone thinks when "catgirl research" come up, but as you said they are more into FTL physics and computer research, not the biological sciences. Who else is there? Well, the other two obvious are the other two catgilr grous, the Cargirl nuns (not right for research, but they are interested in healign the catgilr's traumas, so they could fund the research?) or a as yet unnamed biology lab in Liberatrix.
Myself, I think that the best culprit will be the unnamed catgirl lab in Liberatrix. Possibly inspired by Jenga, they decided to start their own reseach company somewhen around 2019-2021, and the Catgirls of Silence got then a license to own and research a catgirl Machine.
- HRogge - 09-27-2012
Rakhasa Wrote:Myself, I think that the best culprit will be the unnamed catgirl lab in Liberatrix. Possibly inspired by Jenga, they decided to start their own reseach company somewhen around 2019-2021, and the Catgirls of Silence got then a license to own and research a catgirl Machine.
Jenga will do some bio-research in 2019-2021, but a catboy-machine will not be among the things they are working on.
- Foxboy - 09-27-2012
My brain immediately went to a Bad Place™ with this. A place that will be skirted around delicately if it ever turns up.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
- Cobalt Greywalker - 09-27-2012
I would mind displacing it forward actually.
The Catboying Machine is, in fact, a modified Catgirling Machine. They are (to give it some technobabble) preformatted articulatory modification systems, in that they modify the subjects articulation by essentially melting them down and molding them around a plastic skeleton. Going from the original CGM to the CBM is a logical path.
What people seem to forget is that Fen are a bit obsessive. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be Fen and thus no Fenspace. It’s one of the reasons pissing the Fen off is a Bad Thing. Take a look at how fast the Boskone War ended after Serenity-Con.
Now, once the Fen had an honest to C’tan Catgirling Machine to examine they went to work. In the overall scheme of things, switching the machine from Female to Male wasn’t too big of a change.
HOWEVER, as details about how the CGM actually worked leaked out, I doubt there were many NEW takers for the CBM. Still, it was much simpler for victims of the former to use the latter.
How many did so? Not as many as you’d think. Remember, the process uses a lot of handwavium and (as been pointed out many times on the forums) handwavium is a memetic substance. The knowledge the ‘you are a Catgirl’ is constantly reinforced by your appearance and the reactions of those around you. Quite frankly, the insidiousness of it only adds to the Evil of the Catgirling Machine in my opinion. Those who went for the CBM were either recently converted, had a tremendously strong male self-image, or simply had some psychological reaction to their transformation that they didn’t (or couldn’t) let themselves accept it.
The Puma-ising Machine was another modified version of the original CGM, this time attempting to remove the plastic skeleton since that was considered the primary structure the rest of the molding process was based around. It’s from this that the Biomolding process was developed.
Given the time at which a Catgirling Machine was recovered, and the resources likely put into attempting to reverse its affects, I can reasonably see the development of the above between late 2012 and May 2014. Waiting longer to help the victims is WRONG in my opinion.
If you want to limit the use of the tech, there’s a fairly simple way to do so. The Catgirling Machine has a heavy stigma attached to it and its use. Some of that shadow will have fallen over the descendants of that device, even when they were built to fix the issues the original machine caused. So, after all the excitement has died down they become another type of biomod. Outside some of the body modification sub-culture, the downsides (some of which are in the story) will keep this a uncommon thing to do, not unlike getting a biomod deliberately (in the latter case, it’s more about making sure that if needed the Docs can save your life via biomod).
Now, given the cause of all this was a character write up posted by ECSNorway, I want to add the following comments.
If Charlie Kowalski actually goes that way, I very much recommend something more like the Puma-ising Machine (or a Biomolding Machine with a Catgirl template) than the original.
- Ace Dreamer - 09-28-2012
One of the big issues about the Catgirling Machine was the great pain it causes.
Can we assume this issues is addressed in any/all of the derived machines?
The brain isn't supposed to have any pain receptors, so is the pain partly an artefact of the process?
Have there been any scientists who experimented on themselves, carefully recording the entire process? Maybe even slowing it down (or trying to), so as to get a clearer recording?
Has anyone tried (I bet Boskone did) putting something other than a human into the Catgirling Machine, say a dog, sheep or pig of about human mass, just to see what they got out?
Edit: Sorry, Rob. Posted this when I was tired. Forgot that you had a story which depended on various details of CGM. Thread:
http://drunkardswalkforum...the-Julian-Friez-Machine
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- Dartz - 09-28-2012
Knock the person out. No pain. This is what anesthetic was invented for. So we avoid the Star Trek transporter accident screaming effect.
Scientists being a mad sort, it's possible. If they're smart they'll have had an assistant put them to sleep beforehand.
Boskones being a horrid sort and growing low on troops, I wouldn't put it past them. I also wouldn't want to see the result.....
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
- ECSNorway - 09-28-2012
*checks wiki* Yeah, I can see Charlie going Puma. In fact, he will.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
- HRogge - 09-28-2012
Cobalt Greywalker Wrote:Given the time at which a Catgirling Machine was recovered, and the resources likely put into attempting to reverse its affects, I can reasonably see the development of the above between late 2012 and May 2014. Waiting longer to help the victims is WRONG in my opinion.
I do not think this argument makes much sense. Fenspace is no "strategy game" where you say "I put my whole research effort into this problem" to speed things up. The number of researchers working on the CGM and biomods is limited anyways.
The main problem with building modified CGMs will be that you cannot do experiments with them. Even if you find a brave (or even foolish) Fen who says "sure, I will test your new prototype", you can only use him or her once for your research.
I would suggest that the Biomolding process will be developed BEFORE Fenspace gets the Catboy Machine and the Puma Machine. Because with Biomolding there will be some people willing to do experiments, knowing that they have a way to turn back after some time if your experiment goes horrible wrong.
I would suggest placing the Biomolding in 2018-2020, with the new machines coming in early 2021 or 2022.
- ECSNorway - 09-28-2012
A thought for random consumption to keep everything stable: Charlie might not have dived straight into the CGM, but checked things out beforehand and perhaps tried an experiment of his own, adding some items to try to influence the process (his dog-tags, flight wings, etc, all already dipped in handwavium)... the effects produce a Puma-type and study of him and the process allows some improvements that eventually result in the Puma Machine?
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
- HRogge - 09-28-2012
ECSNorway Wrote:A thought for random consumption to keep everything stable: Charlie might not have dived straight into the CGM, but checked things out beforehand and perhaps tried an experiment of his own, adding some items to try to influence the process (his dog-tags, flight wings, etc, all already dipped in handwavium)... the effects produce a Puma-type and study of him and the process allows some improvements that eventually result in the Puma Machine?Might be possible. CI is most likely carefully looking into ways to slightly modify the output of the machine... just to get a little bit more "variance".
If the Puma mod is the result of an experiment with Charlie, I would be okay with this.
Puma = stronger, larger, but a bit less fast than the normal catgirl mod?
- Ace Dreamer - 09-28-2012
HRogge Wrote:Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion:_Tank_PoliceECSNorway Wrote:A thought for random consumption to keep everything stable: Charlie might not have dived straight into the CGM, but checked things out beforehand and perhaps tried an experiment of his own, adding some items to try to influence the process (his dog-tags, flight wings, etc, all already dipped in handwavium)... the effects produce a Puma-type and study of him and the process allows some improvements that eventually result in the Puma Machine?Might be possible. CI is most likely carefully looking into ways to slightly modify the output of the machine... just to get a little bit more "variance".
If the Puma mod is the result of an experiment with Charlie, I would be okay with this.
Puma = stronger, larger, but a bit less fast than the normal catgirl mod?
Quote: "Interestingly, for all that they were created as sex dolls, they are
vastly superior to humans in terms of strength, agility, speed and
ability to take damage. They also have what seems to be the equivalent
of military-grade targeting computers. The oddest trait of their
construction is that much of their large size is optional. They have the
ability to shrink to child-size by expelling large amounts of water
(and returning to normal size by ingesting water). This is revealed when
it's discovered their normal size is too big to effectively pilot the
tanks."
The Puma Twins come very close to being "combat catgirls"...
Maybe someone tried to mix the Catgirling Machine with Squish-bots?
http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?title=Squish-bot
Worth noting that the canon ones are robots, not made of living flesh, like Fenspace catgirls. Unlike their boss, Buaku, who has a fully living body and an inorganic brain.
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- HRogge - 09-28-2012
Ace Dreamer Wrote:Quote:Puma = stronger, larger, but a bit less fast than the normal catgirl mod?
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion:_Tank_Police
Quote: "Interestingly, for all that they were created as sex dolls, they are vastly superior to humans in terms of strength, agility, speed and ability to take damage. They also have what seems to be the equivalent of military-grade targeting computers. The oddest trait of their construction is that much of their large size is optional. They have the ability to shrink to child-size by expelling large amounts of water (and returning to normal size by ingesting water). This is revealed when it's discovered their normal size is too big to effectively pilot the tanks."
The Puma Twins come very close to being "combat catgirls"...
The Fenspace catgirls already have "combat reflexes"... so unless we want to make the Puma's quite more quirky, there should be a trade-off. Just making the new biomod "better" in all things sounds wrong and boring.
Quote:Maybe someone tried to mix the Catgirling Machine with Squish-bots?I don't think so.
- Ace Dreamer - 09-28-2012
HRogge Wrote:Hard to be certain, but the Puma Twins do seem to have ADHD:Ace Dreamer Wrote:The Fenspace catgirls already have "combat reflexes"... so unless we want to make the Puma's quite more quirky, there should be a trade-off. Just making the new biomod "better" in all things sounds wrong and boring.Quote:Puma = stronger, larger, but a bit less fast than the normal catgirl mod?Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion:_Tank_Police
Quote: "Interestingly, for all that they were created as sex dolls, they are vastly superior to humans in terms of strength, agility, speed and ability to take damage. They also have what seems to be the equivalent of military-grade targeting computers. The oddest trait of their construction is that much of their large size is optional. They have the ability to shrink to child-size by expelling large amounts of water (and returning to normal size by ingesting water). This is revealed when it's discovered their normal size is too big to effectively pilot the tanks."
The Puma Twins come very close to being "combat catgirls"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...t_hyperactivity_disorder
I'd suggest making Fenspace pumagirls fully organic, so they are as bullet-proof as normal catgirls, and have to rely on homeostasis not tough skins. Say they are twice as strong as a normal catgirl, and can train-up to be even stronger (but they'd need to keep-up the training, or homeostasis will pull them back to standard). I'd recommend dumping the shrinking ability based of expelling/ingesting water - I think that arguably required them to be inorganic (and I'm suspicious of its logic and basis).
As for the reflexes, I'd suggest that they have a choice.
They can be slightly slower than a normal catgirl (option 1). They can be as fast as a normal catgirl and have either ADHD or a "must fight to resist responding to music" quirk (option 2; choose which quirk on becoming a catgirl). Or, they can be just faster than a catgirl and have both quirks (option 3). Some reasonably standard stimulant or relaxant might be capable of turning on/off one of the two quirks (choose which on becoming a catgirl), but there is no known way of turning on, or turning off, both quirks togather.
Catnip and chocolate for example...
Quote:I'd like to believe no one would be insane enough to try that, but, they don't call them Mad for nothing...Quote:Maybe someone tried to mix the Catgirling Machine with Squish-bots?I don't think so.
By the way, I don't see the homeostasis in the GURPS write-up of the 'Generic Catgirl' Advantages - should that be added?
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- HRogge - 09-28-2012
Ace Dreamer Wrote:By the way, I don't see the homeostasis in the GURPS write-up of the 'Generic Catgirl' Advantages - should that be added?I think thats part of the "Biomod" thing.
- Ace Dreamer - 09-28-2012
HRogge Wrote:The Biomod is a Disadvantage. I'm far more familiar with Hero System than GURPS, but I don't think you get 'good stuff' from a Disadvantage. I'd expect some sort of "Quick Healing/Regeneration" Advantage. If there is a write-up detailing that Disadvantage, I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong, though.Ace Dreamer Wrote:By the way, I don't see the homeostasis in the GURPS write-up of the 'Generic Catgirl' Advantages - should that be added?I think thats part of the "Biomod" thing.
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- ECSNorway - 09-28-2012
If you want something in game terms, I've often seen packages that had more disads than advantages end up with a negative total cost.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
- Cobalt Greywalker - 09-29-2012
OK, I’ve tried to get my thoughts down clearly but I’m not sure I have. However if I don’t post now I’m not sure I will any time soon (because of constant tweaking), so here goes.
The thing people are not noticing is the fact that examinations of the CGM ALSO led to the development of automated wavetech production lines. The problem with delaying the CBM and Biomolding is that the techniques needed to create the wavetech production lines lead quickly to modifying the CGM.
Let’s take A.I. programing for example. In retrospect it was obvious that A.I.s could wave up tech (given the amount of androids even in the early days), so once you can get A.I.s, even the Delta level ones, starting to create wavetech it’s a hop, skip, and a jump to getting them to do it repeatedly. Asmodeus Grey’s genius was extracting the principles of the Julian Friez machine and putting together a fully automated system with specifically programed A.I.s to drive the handwavium.
Once you can program A.I.s to wave up something, it’s much easier to reprogram them to do something else. Once you have THAT, modifying the CGM becomes a short matter of time. (I did mention Fen had obsessive personalities, right?)
Once the Fen have a CGM to examine, someone will note how the same techniques can be used for wavetech production and THAT is such a mind-bogglingly useful function for Fenspace that the factions will throw (not literally) any researcher they can spare at the problem (if they didn’t already). As I put in the fic, the Trekkies got there first as they had more people to throw at it. Once the Fen have working wavetech production lines, I can only see the whole thing cycling back on itself and the researchers applying that knowledge to the CGM.
I can see no realistic way that wavetech production lines can exist, without at the very least a Catboying Machine also existing. Without the former (which I need for a future fic which leads to the Gauntlet fic I am trying, admittedly slowly, to complete) I don’t see the expansion of Fenspace envisaged in the extended Fenspace timeline happening at anywhere near the projected rate, if at all. And once the latter exists I very much doubt the Supers (at the very least) will not follow through and create the Biomolding system.
As to volunteers for development, there are catgirls who would do so even if they weren’t part of the development team.
The other comment I’d like to put out there is my opinion that once a fic is on the wiki it shouldn’t really change. Yes, I know Rob Kelk has modified the first chapter of LoGG but it didn’t really change how the story has gone (at least AFAIK).
M Fnord’s retcon of the Soviets also hasn’t really changed the basis for those fics he’s put on the wiki either.
The problem of rewriting is what it will do to stories depending on them. There is also the fact that stories hang on what is NOT done as much as what IS done. I did suggest a way to limit the Biomolding tech in my previous post (which I’ll admit, makes the CGM even MORE evil if abet unintentionally) as well as in the fic. The CGM and its derivatives the CBM and Puma-ising Machine suffer from the stigma the CGM has, and Biomolding is limited by both how often it can be used and how hard it is to create a framework.
- HRogge - 09-29-2012
Cobalt Greywalker Wrote:The thing people are not noticing is the fact that examinations of the CGM ALSO led to the development of automated wavetech production lines. The problem with delaying the CBM and Biomolding is that the techniques needed to create the wavetech production lines lead quickly to modifying the CGM.I think using the tech for non-living things might be easier (because more testing possible!)
Quote:Once the Fen have a CGM to examine, someone will note how the same techniques can be used for wavetech production and THAT is such a mind-bogglingly useful function for Fenspace that the factions will throw (not literally) any researcher they can spare at the problem (if they didn’t already). As I put in the fic, the Trekkies got there first as they had more people to throw at it. Once the Fen have working wavetech production lines, I can only see the whole thing cycling back on itself and the researchers applying that knowledge to the CGM.No argument... but they are not interested in the biological aspect of the machine.
Quote:I can see no realistic way that wavetech production lines can exist, without at the very least a Catboying Machine also existing.Why ?
Quote:Without the former (which I need for a future fic which leads to the Gauntlet fic I am trying, admittedly slowly, to complete) I don’t see the expansion of Fenspace envisaged in the extended Fenspace timeline happening at anywhere near the projected rate, if at all. And once the latter exists I very much doubt the Supers (at the very least) will not follow through and create the Biomolding system.I don't see what biomolding and the catboy-machine have to do with each other.
Quote:As to volunteers for development, there are catgirls who would do so even if they weren’t part of the development team.You cannot use a catgirl for testing a catboy-machine.
- Ace Dreamer - 09-29-2012
There was more than one reason I suggested putting a (living, higher mammal) human-mass animal through the CGM. If what comes out the far end still counts as an animal, and not a human child or catgirl in severe need of education, you've got an ideal subject for testing a modified CGM, or CBM, on.
Now, if you do get a potential human out, there are still possibilities (though, obviously, they'll go into a remedial program). If you deliberately inflict brain damage on the animal then put it through the machine you may get the equivalent of a brain-dead catgirl out. I don't recall any evidence that the CGM process repairs brain damage.
You'd need to run this whole idea past a thoroughly careful ethics panel, but, that might be a legitimate way of getting biomolding test subjects. Careful thought, not avoiding something just due to disgust over the 'yuck' factor.
One reason I'm mentioning this is that it is an example. There are likely all sort of processes that Fenspace scientists and Mads will think of, once they start to really to get their teeth into the problem. We're probably only scratching the surface.
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- robkelk - 09-30-2012
There are likely to be some undocumented bugs and features in the Catgirling Machine, just as there are in the **WHITENOISE** **WHITENOISE** **WHITENOISE** (The Julien Friez Machine has documented bugs - no two Juliens are the same, for example.)
If you run a mouse through the Catgirling Machine, do you get a Catgirl or a CatMouse? If you reverse the polarity of the process, do you get a Catgirl or a Catboy? Can the AIs running the Machine be reprogrammed without breaking the machine? Nobody's ever announced the result of such experiments...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
- Ace Dreamer - 09-30-2012
robkelk Wrote:There are likely to be some undocumented bugs and features in the Catgirling Machine, just as there are in the **WHITENOISE** **WHITENOISE** **WHITENOISE** (The Julien Friez Machine has documented bugs - no two Juliens are the same, for example.)The plastic skeleton used in the CGM very likely controls the general shape of the result. I believe it's generally assumed that Dr. Asmodeus Grey was trying to make a "Weapon X" (Marvel Wolverine) making machine, and getting a catgirl instead was a major quirk.
If you run a mouse through the Catgirling Machine, do you get a Catgirl or a CatMouse? If you reverse the polarity of the process, do you get a Catgirl or a Catboy? Can the AIs running the Machine be reprogrammed without breaking the machine? Nobody's ever announced the result of such experiments...
Putting a single animal of roughly human mass in a CGM seems very likely to have been tried. An adult sheep at 45kg seems likely workable, a farm pig or even mini pig would likely do, all but the largest dog probably wouldn't be heavy enough (and most people wouldn't use a pet dog); a larger specimen of 'big cat', like a leopard, might do (conservationists would likely be upset).
Really brave people might try putting enough chickens (probably easier than many animals to obtain in Fenspace) into a CGM to match human mass, and pressing the 'Go!' button...
Curious people might try enough mass of living vegetable matter. Carrots, maybe? A giant marrow? Still, a catgirl who found they started life as 60kg of carrots might have reason to be a little upset...
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- HRogge - 09-30-2012
If nothing else works, a medical (but braindead) clone will most likely work... but thats out of reach in 2014.
- Ace Dreamer - 09-30-2012
HRogge Wrote:If nothing else works, a medical (but braindead) clone will most likely work... but thats out of reach in 2014.Would you dare use people who were clinically brain-dead, and being kept alive by a life support machine? Who'd donated their bodies to medical science?
Are we heading into dystopian areas here?
Edit: Someone is going to obtain and try a Stage 2 Squish-bot, at some point, as that's a brain-dead (temporary) clone equivalent, and definitely available by 2014:
http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?title=Squish-bot
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"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
- HRogge - 09-30-2012
Ace Dreamer Wrote:Sounds a bit too creepy for doing lots of experiments.Quote:If nothing else works, a medical (but braindead) clone will most likely work... but thats out of reach in 2014.Would you dare use people who were clinically brain-dead, and being kept alive by a life support machine Who'd donated their bodies to medical science?
Are we heading into dystopian areas here?
I wonder how good the clone would have to be to trigger the homeostasis effect (which will give you the result you want).
Quote:Edit: Someone is going to obtain and try a Stage 2 Squish-bot, at some point, as that's a brain-dead (temporary) clone equivalent, and definitely available by 2014: http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?title=Squish-botThey might contain too much Handwavium to be compatible with the CGM...
- Rakhasa - 09-30-2012
The main impression I am getting is that there would be many experiments, from many different parties, done on the CGM -from the useless to the creepy to the outright immoral.
I think we have seen how the biomolding, the Catboy machine, and other related weirdnesses appeared: each was the end result of some experiment. But since they were the result of many different experiment by unrelated groups, it will take years until they are well known all over fenspace. Thats' why even if they were there in 2014 it does not change the story of Jenga or Liberatrix: Jenga is not really interested in the biological sciences until after the Pam mission, and Liberatrix spent its first years in some isolation recovering from trauma.
The one restriction I think we should add is for the biomolding: Each particular type of biomold needs a specific machine -so there is the catboy machine and the Puma machine, but they are two different machines.