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Jelidan - Kat/SR Scrapper: A write-up/Request - Printable Version +- Drunkard's Walk Forums (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums) +-- Forum: General (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: The Legendary (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=14) +---- Forum: Build Advice (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=16) +---- Thread: Jelidan - Kat/SR Scrapper: A write-up/Request (/showthread.php?tid=3193) |
Jelidan - Kat/SR Scrapper: A write-up/Request - Shader - 10-16-2008 With the coming of i13, and dual builds, I thought I'd make my lvl 50 into a PvE/PvP toon. One build the concept build, the other for the PvP zones and the arena. As some of you may or may not know, my main lvl 50 toon is a Kat/SR scrapper. Goes by the name of Jelidan, and been seen to interact with some of the Legendary on occassion. Concept wise, as it stands now, she is a sword fighter... a very fast moving sword fighter - with a 'spirit in the blade' type sword. What good is a sword fighter that can't get out the way of her own blade? She is use to moving faster then normal and dodging attacks, but the skills are actually from the blade itself. She sees the world slightly differently then others, due to the whispering of the blade, and vast amounts of knowledge, but that is merely dependent on when and if her blade chooses to tell her about something that is knows. (Like it knows that there is something weird about Wy'tin when they first crossed paths, but only told Jelidan to be careful) Yes, Jelidan can see Alistair, on occasion, again due to the blade's influence. Jelidan also has the innate ability to be moving so fast standing still to partly phase out of sync with this dimension and appear transparent. Yes, her name is a corruption of Jedi, she's grown much, much more from her original concept. Budget constraints: well currently I only have 60 mil, but for all intents and purposes there are none. This build as literally cost me over 100 mil. Price is no object. I'll get the money eventually, and know how to work the market. Now that I've yabbered on, onto the actual build itself. When I did this, my original plan for Jelidan, I was under the impression that as you exemplared down, you lost the set bonuses from IOs, even if you had access to the IOs. For example if you 6 slotted Brawl and put a full set of lvl 40 Touch of Death in it, I though you would loose the bonuses if you exemplared below level 40. I would really, really like proof that this is not the case, that the level of the IO set does not matter for the Set bonuses to be applied. Anyway, Terrance says this isn't the case. So one his word it looks like I'm wrong. With all of the above in mind, here is the build that got me to lvl 50 without a respec. (ok so I switched to generics IOs when IOs came along, and then to sets, but no respec has been used) Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Jelidan - Sets: Level 50 Magic Scrapper Primary Power Set: Katana Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes Power Pool: Fitness Power Pool: Concealment Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Medicine Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Sting of the Wasp
Level 1: Brawl
------------ Set Bonus Totals:
Code: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | At Level 50, when I have all the toggles running, Jelidan has 43.8% Melee, 45% Ranged, 45.6% AoE. Note that I do NOT have the health uniques atm, and I was about to bid for the +Stealth. This Defense puts Jelidan around the soft cap of 45% for positional defenses. There are only two problems. Late bloomer. She doesn't get to this point until after lvl 40. End usage. She chews End like its going out of fashion. Particularly when she runs all the toggles and gets in full swing. Then you add Focused Accuracy into the mix. The result? LoLStamina. So... you have any tweaks to her PvE build? Notice that I don't have Divine Avalanche... I didn't need it. How much of a tweak do you have? Open slather. Rebuild Mah Toon! That's not to say I haven't had a bash at it myself... Code: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | ![]() Terrance did snort that I couldn't get anything out of purples. Whelp... the above build has a purple in Kick, and it costs me 3.75% in Range and dropped me below the 45% mark. Change Kick to 6 slot Mako and you get a extra 3.75% range def. Terrance there you go, give me good def, with purples. For giggles, I tried to make a leaping Divine Avalanche build... and probably mucked it up, as it only got 45.7%/43.2%/42.5% .... and swapping out the two big melee attacks for 5 x Purples 9 + Change for Recharge only made the defense figure horrid. (43.8/39.4/40.6) Code: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | Current problems:
Shader - Logan Darklighter - 10-16-2008 Okay - first off - i can't give you raw numbers. I'm terrible at that sort of thing. But one thing I'll tell you that is glaringly obvious, even to me - GET. DIVINE. AVALANCHE!!!!!!!! You say you didn't need it? I say - why oh WHY are you giving up the SWEETEST synergy between primary and secondary defense you'll ever likely have? Trust me - get Divine Avalanche. Put as much recharge and defense boost IOs in the slotting of that as you can. You might have to sacrifice something (NOT any powers from your /SR set, though - you need all of those. /SR is a really tight build!) but it would be worth it! I'm not at home right now, so I can't give you numbers. But when you're in combat, you can stack 2-3 Divine Avalanche Defense boosts at once. You think Cyberman 8 is hard to hit? You already have more defense than he does! And with 2-3 Divine Avalanche going, you can blast right through the soft cap and be halfway to the hard cap without even hitting Elude! Hell, put the damn thing on auto if you find it hard to remember to add it to your attack chain! Secondly - You have Hecatomb... IN BRAWL?????????? Whiskey Tango FOXTROT????? If you must get rid of anything, get rid of Stealth. With the Celerity and Superspeed, you don't need it and you're getting the same effect. That's all I have for now. - Morganite - 10-16-2008 Quote:When I did this, my original plan for Jelidan, I was under the impression that as you exemplared down, you lost the set bonuses from IOs, even if you had access to the IOs. For example if you 6 slotted Brawl and put a full set of lvl 40 Touch of Death in it, I though you would loose the bonuses if you exemplared below level 40. I would really, really like proof that this is not the case, that the level of the IO set does not matter for the Set bonuses to be applied. That's... not exactly right, but not entirely wrong. You keep set bonuses as long as you'd be capable of equipping the enhancement at the exemplared level. Thus in your example, you'd keep the set bonuses as long as you were at least level 37. The exception to this is purples. The set bonuses from those sets are always active. Does Divine Avalanche really help you after you've hit the soft cap? -Morgan. - Shader - 10-17-2008 Logan... It was a concept build to begin with, so yeah... hence the inclusion of Stealth. Stealth also gives me an extra 2.5% defense when active. And the idea floating around in my head, if I remember correctly was if you combine Stealth, with Celerity and Super Speed, you get near heroic Stalker in PvP, particularly when combined with the perception bonus of /SR. Besides, that's the existing build, and I did say to rebuild Jelidan. And why put Hecatomb in Brawl? And loose the 6 Slot boost from Touch of Death? If you have a look at one of the PvP builds I suggested I do include Divine Avalanche. Just if someone could point out a build that makes sense to me and has decent defense it would be golden. Morgan. ... Except for Purples, its the equipping level that is the critical factor in determining if you have set-bonus. Hence, for set bonuses to work in BB or lvl 25, that would make lvl 28 IOs the maximum you could slot. For Sirens Call or lvl 30, it would be lvl 33. Warburg or lvl 38 would be lvl 41. Is that correct? Shader - Ankhani - 10-17-2008 You also must have access to the slot in which the enhancement is placed for you to get the effect. So for example, if you have a 6 slot set bonus, and the slot levels are, say, 1,5,9,23,31,36 then you would only have the 5 set bonus regardless of Enhancement level when exemp'd to below 35, and so on. --- The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself." >Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI - Shader - 10-17-2008 Just when I thought I had a grasp on the whole IO set bonus thing... it gets even more complex. Thank you everyone for the pointers. I sorta suspected that my knowledge might not be 100% correct... My original build was set up IO wise for Bloody Bay and and then grew from there. But I never suspected the point that Ankhani just mentioned. (Shows you I have to read the Combat Information box more carefully ![]() Now if only I could get a decent PvP build... I was mucking around with the final build above and flipping purples into it along with +recharges and came up with something but forget to save it... :-S Shader - Morganite - 10-17-2008 MicroHue Wrote:Morgan. ... Except for Purples, its the equipping level that is the critical factor in determining if you have set-bonus. Hence, for set bonuses to work in BB or lvl 25, that would make lvl 28 IOs the maximum you could slot. For Sirens Call or lvl 30, it would be lvl 33. Warburg or lvl 38 would be lvl 41. Is that correct? That's the way it was explained to me, and it's consistent with the results of my own testing. Although I don't know if I had any exactly enhancements of exactly level 5x+4 to check. On the defense from Stealth, don't forget that half of that goes away once you start attacking. If you want the most defense and still have access to full stealth (or turn transluscent), you could get Combat Jumping and put the Unbounded Leap +Stealth IO in it. ... Well, I guess that wouldn't get quite as much stealth as an IO, the Stealth power, *and* super speed. Except if Mids is to be believed, it doesn't actually help having *all* of those. It appears that a cap is being hit on PvP stealth with just Stealth and +Stealth IO, with SS not improving it. *pokes some more* Actually, Mids does not show SS as improving PvP stealth at all, so that explains that. Some quick web searching suggests that it is correct. And even if SS did improve PvP stealth, you'd still hit the cap long before a Stalker would. Ankhani Wrote:You also must have access to the slot in which the enhancement is placed for you to get the effect. So for example, if you have a 6 slot set bonus, and the slot levels are, say, 1,5,9,23,31,36 then you would only have the 5 set bonus regardless of Enhancement level when exemp'd to below 35, and so on. ... Are you sure about this? Because I've never seen that suggested before. And I know that the standard enhancement effects are available as long as you have the power available, regardless of what level the slots were placed at. -Morgan. - Logan Darklighter - 10-17-2008 Quote: ... Are you sure about this? I think she's talking about the set bonuses, and not the regular IO bonuses. If you have just straight IO slotting, then yeah, it's "backwards compatible." But the set bonuses from stuff like Crushing Impact and Scirocco's Dervish? Not so much. You'd still get the basic effects from those enhancements though. Just not the set bonuses. - Logan Darklighter - 10-17-2008 Quote: Logan... It was a concept build to begin with, so yeah... hence the inclusion of Stealth. Stealth also gives me an extra 2.5% defense when active. And the Sorry. Posted last time while half asleep. Anyway. I was surprised at putting Hecatomb in Brawl. I can sort of see why you'd do that. But I feel it's a waste of slots that could go towards other things. At most leave the single slot in there and put in a single Accuracy IO. That's what I've done with C8 and Lily. And that only for the sole purpose of putting Brawl on "Auto" during PVP and hoping for a toggle drop. (Which will be a moot point with the upcoming I13 changes. That strat is going out the window.) I didn't see the PVP build in your post at the time that I posted. But like I said - half asleep at the time. I'm still not at home, so I can't look that up in Mids just yet. Hopefully this weekend I can take a peek. - Morganite - 10-17-2008 Logan Darklighter Wrote:I think she's talking about the set bonuses, and not the regular IO bonuses. If you have just straight IO slotting, then yeah, it's "backwards compatible." But the set bonuses from stuff like Crushing Impact and Scirocco's Dervish? Not so much. You'd still get the basic effects from those enhancements though. Just not the set bonuses. I know it does that based on the enhancement level. But I've never before read anything to suggest the level at which the *slots* were placed made a difference, and that seems fairly significant to me. I could test this pretty easily if the test server was open, but with a closed beta going on I'm assuming not. And I'm not willing to burn two of Eri's respecs on live... But then I say to myself, what's the price of a couple SOs and cheap IOs when balanced against the glory of cold, hard proof? So! Take Shia Arisa Plenilune. Like any good Fire/Kin controller (where "good" is defined as "built and played the way I want to do it"), she got Hot Feet at level 8, and slotted it promptly. However, by definition, she can not have slotted it fully by level 9. So, I went and got myself 2 level 10 Curtail Speed enhancements and stuck them in the last two slots of Hot Feet. Combat attributes promptly showed a reduced immobilization duration, because that's what 2 Curtail Speed does. Then it's off to Ouroboros, to stick myself under a level 9 cap. The immobilize resistance bonus remained. So, at this point, I'm pretty confident that the level slots are placed at does *not* matter, just the level of the enhancements themselves. -Morgan. - Morganite - 11-07-2008 (Reasking question.) Does Divine Avalanche really help you after you've hit the soft cap? -Morgan. - Ankhani - 11-07-2008 Well, thats pretty much the question of all god modes. Does Elude really help, if you're already at the soft cap? Does Unstoppable really help if you can tank fine already? Why take Instant Healing if you already have a high regen? My Point here is, while Divine Avalanche may not be a extremely significant benefit, those last few percent could mean the difference between a Hit and a Miss, and that can mean the difference between life and death. And Suppose you exemp down to a point where you don't have all your set bonuses, and you're not at the soft cap. You can then get the signifiant bonus it provides and -be- soft caped to melee. It may not make a extremely visible difference, but when making a character totally based on defense, too much is still not enough, and every little bit helps. --- The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself." >Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI - Logan Darklighter - 11-07-2008 Quote: Morganni wrote: At first I thought it did. But I've been researching this for about an hour now and I think I was wrong. Looking up how defense works in terms of Accuracy and To-Hit. I thought at first that Divine Avalanche would improve the defense. Now - mind you - it will. While it's going, your defense will improve. But past 45% or so, it really only helps you in a practical sense if you were going up against +6 level baddies (which you really shouldn't be doing anyway). I could get all the math examples and all, but it's not really necessary. I know it makes MY eyes bleed. ^_^ (google with the terms "city of heroes" "defense" "soft cap" and "divine avalanche" and you'll likely find the info I did) Bottom line - in a practical sense, once you're past the 45% defense soft cap, anything stacked on top is not really worth your time to pursue. Divine Avalanche would help you get to the soft-cap easier and might make it so that your build doesn't need to be quite so tight on the /SR secondary. Or it might allow you to use other IO sets that give you different set bonuses. Say - trade some defense for regeneration in the set bonuses, for example, because DA would still get you up past the soft cap. What I think it would do is help protect you against defense debuffs to a degree. You'd still get debuffed, but DA would help mitigate that. Is it absolutely necessary though? That's pretty situational. There might be some times when you wish you had that extra defense. But... I don't think it would come up often enough to make it mandatory. So - Divine Avalanche is still a good build tool. And it DOES synergize with Super Reflexes builds quite nicely. But mandatory? Not really. - Morganite - 11-07-2008 That's pretty much what I was thinking, really. I'm not at the soft cap now, and won't be for a while. But I've got it high enough that even not using it, I dodge things enough that it's starting to look like other things are more valuable. Things that will let me defeat enemies faster. Though with dual builds, a build for - Shader - 12-12-2008 Ok, I'm writing this up on the fly to see if anyone here can squeeze something out of what I think is a tight build already. I think I've made a tight build tighter. I've gotten Jelidan up to 53.4%/44%/49.6% on the Melee/Ranged/AoE defenses, and upped her Endurance recovery and lowered her Endurance use. This is what I'm aiming for. The target of this build was soft cap positional defenses, while minimizing End usage and maximizing End gain. Haven't used any I13 IOs, as it was built using I12. Main changes off the top of my head: Changed Travel Power, used Tough and Weave, and Juggled a few slots. One thing that gets me, unslotted when I run all my toggles, I'm slowly loosing End, yet supposedly when slotted up with the enhancements I gain it. Weird. Shader Build: Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Jelidan - take 2: Level 50 Magic Scrapper Primary Power Set: Katana Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes Power Pool: Fitness Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Sting of the Wasp
Level 1: Brawl
------------ Set Bonus Totals:
Code: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | - Wiregeek - 12-12-2008 nice build! three changes - Agile, Dodge, and Lucky - lose one of the generic IOs, replace it with the LoTG: Defense IO, gain 30% regen from set bonusses, lose 0% defense 8 ) three _possible_ changes. If you completely de-slot Sting of the Wasp, Lotus Drops, and Golden Dragonfly, you still stay above softcap for Melee/AoE, and it frees up 15 slots for other effects. Additionally, if you de-slot Flashing Steel, you are sitting at 44% Melee/Ranged/AoE, which isn't _quite_ softcapped. i13 is producing some exciting /SR and /Shield builds! "No can brain today. Want cheezeburger." From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies - Ankhani - 12-13-2008 Very very good. I have just a few suggestions for this: -Stamina: You get a net +1% (.01 end/sec) recovery if you change the 2 50 EndMod IOs to Perf. Shifter:EndMod/Acc and EndMod/Rech. -Elude: If you replace one of the 50 Rech IOs in elude with a LotG: Def/Rech, you will only lose about 3 seconds worth of Recharge, and gain 10% regen and 8% defense while eluding. -Autos: (Agile/Dodge/Lucky) As per Wire said, replace one Generic IO with a LotG ![]() meele defense, drop a slot from Dodge, and place in health for a Miracle+Recovery for an extra +15% (.25end/sec) boost. --- The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself." >Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI |