Dartz Wrote:It seems like utter lunacy to me.... to continuously keep beating on the door of one single issue rather than actually bothering to run the country.

Quote:Morganni wrote:

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Quote:Dartz wrote:

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It seems like utter lunacy to me.... to continuously keep beating on the door of one single issue rather than actually bothering to run the country.

It's a big issue. Leaving aside any directly healthcare-related concerns, a lot of people are worried about the various firings and hour-cuttings that are already happening in response to different provisions in the bill. (I find it more than slightly alarming that something which purports to improve health care is leading to so many people who work in the field losing their jobs. Not that it's just them being hit. I've never been so glad to work for a large company.)

-Morgan.

Quote:Morganni wrote:

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Given the way the polls show more and more people don't want Obamacare, wouldn't you expect opposing it to be good for someone's political career?

Seriously, wouldn't you think that if people wanted Obamacare funded that badly, the Democrats would control the House? Why is it all that surprising when Republicans do what their constituents want?

-Morgan.

Quote:Rajvik wrote:

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Actually, and i say this as one of those "Kooks", let them shut the government down, unlike what the democrats and the talking heads of the liberal media, (and 99.9% of the US media is liberal biased mind you) would have you believe, shutting down the government is not going to end the social security checks, its not going to end the paychecks to the military, and its not going to stop the welfare checks. all the necesary functions are going to still be there regardless of what the fear mongers are screaming. What it is going to do is send 2/3s of the beurocrats home and let the actual necessity of people get the business of running the government done. Now over the last 6 years the house has sent the senate at least 10 budgets most of which allowed obamacare to be funded, the senate has deep sixed every bloody one of them for various reasons. Sequestration was Obama's comprimise, not the republicans, he just was dumb enough to think that the republicans would worry so much about funding the military that they would give him the social welfare blank check he wanted in a new budget back last year and not take the sequestration, WRONG.

Dont bluff, especially when your not even holding cards.

Quote:Inconvenienced Citizens

• Medicare: Some 400,000 newly eligible Medicare recipients were delayed in applying for the program.

• Social Security: Claims from 112,000 new Social Security
  applicants were not processed. 212,000 new or replacement Social
  Security cards were not issued. 360,000 office visits were denied.
  800,000 toll-free calls for information were not answered.

• Healthcare: New patients were not accepted into clinical
  research at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) clinical center. The
  Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ceased disease surveillance
  and hotline calls to NIH concerning diseases were not answered.

• Environment: Toxic waste clean-up work at 609 sites stopped as 2,400 Superfund workers were sent home.

• Law Enforcement and Public Safety: Delays occurred in the
  processing of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives applications by
  the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms; work on more than 3,500
  bankruptcy cases reportedly was suspended; cancellation of the
  recruitment and testing of federal law enforcement officials reportedly
  occurred, including the hiring of 400 border patrol agents; and
  delinquent child-support cases were delayed.

• US Veterans: Multiple veterans' services were curtailed, ranging from health and welfare to finance and travel.

• Travel: 80,000 passport applications
  were delayed. 80,000 visas were delayed. The resulting postponement or
  cancellation of travel cost U.S. tourist industries and airlines
  millions of dollars.

• National Parks: 2 million visitors were turned away from the nation's national parks resulting in the loss of millions in revenue.

• Government-backed Loans: FHA mortgage loans worth more than $800 million to more than 10,000 low-and-moderate-income working families were delayed.

How a Government Shutdown Might Affect You

As directed by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), the federal
agencies now maintain contingency plans for dealing with government
shutdowns. The emphasis of those plans is to determine which functions
should continue. Most notably, the Department of Homeland Security and
its Transportation Security Administration (TSA) did not exist in 1995
when the last long-term government shutdown took place. Due to the
critical nature of their function, it is highly likely that the TSA
would continue to function normally during a government shutdown.

Based on history, here is how a long-term government shutdown might impact some government-provided public services.

• Social Security: Benefit checks would probably keep coming, but no new applications would be accepted or processed.

• Income Tax: The IRS will probably stop processing paper tax returns and refunds.

• Border Patrol: Customs and Border Patrol functions will probably continue.

• Welfare: Again, the checks would probably continue, but new applications for Food Stamps might not be processed.

• Mail: The U.S. Postal Service supports itself, so mail deliveries would continue as usual.

• National Defense: All active duty members of all branches
  of all armed services would continue duty as usual, but might not get
  paid on time. More than half of the Defense Department's 860,000+
  civilian employees would also work, the others sent home.

• Justice System: Federal courts
  should remain open. Criminals will still be chased, caught, prosecuted
  and thrown in federal prisons, which would still be operating.

• Farms/USDA: Food safety inspections will probably continue, but rural development, and farm credit and loan programs will probably close down.

• Transportation: Air traffic control, TSA security personnel, and the Coast Guard will remain on the job. Applications for passports and visas may not be processed.

• National Parks/Tourism: Parks and forests will probably
  close and visitors told to leave. Visitor and interpretive centers will
  be closed. Non-volunteer rescue and fire control services might be shut
  down. National monuments and most historic sites will probably be
  closed. Parks police will probably continue their patrols.

Quote:werehawk wrote:

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Obama's current political capital is pretty tenuous too say the least.

Particularly after the entire Syria issue in which Vladimir Putin gave him a not too welcome way out of the debacle he'd gotten himself into.

Nor does his doing a speech attacking Republicans at the very same time the Navy yard mass shooting was still unsettled help things...

Quote:Rajvik wrote:

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 unlike what the democrats and the talking heads of the liberal media, (and 99.9% of the US media is liberal biased mind you) would have you believe, shutting down the government is not going to end the social security checks, its not going to end the paychecks to the military, and its not going to stop the welfare checks. all the necesary functions are going to still be there regardless of what the fear mongers are screaming.

ordnance11 Wrote:Morgan, I do not have the breakdown of the poll of those who do not want Obamacare, but a good portion of those who oppose it are liberals who do not think it goes far enough. And the I really would like to see a poll who reasons for their opposition. Medicare and Medicaid also had their opponents, but you don't see widespread opposition to them.