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+--- Thread: You are still crying Wolf (Trump) (/showthread.php?tid=4031)
You are still crying Wolf (Trump) - Logan Darklighter - 11-26-2016
It would take me too long to explain why this article about Trump, by Scott Alexander, is so important to you and to the country. Stop whatever you are doing and give it ten minutes.
Seriously. Stop what you are doing. Give this ten minutes. It’s more important that almost anything you were going to do today.
Then save the link for later sharing. Show it to all of your friends who think Trump is a racist monster.
This ends it.
The only people who will think Trump is a racist going forward are people who haven’t read this article. If you find someone like that, send them the link. This piece is a brilliant service to the country. Breathtaking.
Here’s the short link for easy sharing: http://bit.ly/2f3iTxB
- robkelk - 11-27-2016
I tried reading it. Really, I did. But there are far too many logic holes in that for it to make any case other than one about the muddy thinking of the piece's writer.
Did the number of non-whites who voted for the GOP increase this election? Yes.
What does non-whites' opinions of Mr. Trump have to do with Mr. Trump's opinions of non-whites? Nothing. But Scott Alexander drew a connection anyway.
Did Mr. Trump look happy to receive the support of a LBGT voting group? Yes.
Was that because he likes LBGT people or because he likes getting votes? Insufficient information provided to answer honestly. But Mr. Alexander gave an answer anyway.
Is the number of whites who would move if a black family moved in next door dropping? Yes.
What does that have to do with the most recent election? Insufficient information provided to answer honestly. But Mr. Alexander gave an answer anyway.
And so on, and so on, and so on. Scott Alexander needs to learn some critical thinking techniques.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
- ordnance11 - 11-27-2016
Okay I read it and paragraph 16 was full of contradictions and waving off all that Trump has said by saying the man is weird. His main trust seems to be that we can sleep easy that nothing bad will happen. And what the heck are his credentials? Is he a mental health expert? Policy expert? What I have read is a lot of meandering thoughts with no coherent theme other than stop crying wolf.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- Black Aeronaut - 11-27-2016
I apologize, but I couldn't take it seriously. Not when the header contains this: "Content warning: hate crimes, Trump, racism. I have turned off comments to keep out bad people who might be attracted by this sort of thing."
'Bad people'? Really? What are you, a sixteen year old valley girl? How about "I have turned off comments because of the vitriol slinging this will undoubtedly attract" instead? Or not even address the fact that you've turned off the commentary section?
- Labster - 11-28-2016
This was not SA's best post. I do read his blog but this one was hard for me to get through.
@Black Aeronaut: SA has talked about how he uses content warnings as a way to prime his target audience. Because of this reaction, you are not his target audience for this post. Also if you want to comment, just go to one of his open threads that we all know about.
@ordnance11: He is a mental health expert, currently in his last year of residency as a psychiatrist.
@robkelk: It is funny how self-styled rationalists often need to learn critical thinking techniques, isn't it? I think the argument here could have been better phrased as "attacking Trump on the wrong things makes it harder to convince opponents, so attack him on the right things instead." Unfortunately his campaign was near 0% substance so it's hard to find "the right things" right now. And I honestly feel like Hillary's campaign represents the limits of logic -- without emotion one cannot win a political argument.
@Logan Darklighter: Unfortunately you're right that Trump is not a racist monster, he's just an ordinary monster who views all humans as beneath him. While this is not the end of the world, it is the end of a long era of political decency (and no that is not an oxymoron). If we're not careful, our children will grow up thinking that is OK for an adult to act like he does.
If you're interested in a good post by Scott Alexander, I recommend Meditations on Moloch. Despite the fact he's an atheist, this post managed to convince me that the Devil is real (which was probably not the intent but...) Content warning: postmodernism, AI, Carthage, fishing permits, poetry (his list is funnier)
-- ∇×V
- ordnance11 - 11-28-2016
Quote:vorticity wrote:Well, my main concern is Trump's coherent policies (or lack thereof). Trump may not be a racist monster but he has the support of racists. his belated disavowal not withstanding. and I will note that once we start getting into the cult of personality for politicians, authoritarian forms o government will not be far behind.
This was not SA's best post. I do read his blog but this one was hard for me to get through.
@Black Aeronaut: SA has talked about how he uses content warnings as a way to prime his target audience. Because of this reaction, you are not his target audience for this post. Also if you want to comment, just go to one of his open threads that we all know about.
@ordnance11: He is a mental health expert, currently in his last year of residency as a psychiatrist.
@robkelk: It is funny how self-styled rationalists often need to learn critical thinking techniques, isn't it? I think the argument here could have been better phrased as "attacking Trump on the wrong things makes it harder to convince opponents, so attack him on the right things instead." Unfortunately his campaign was near 0% substance so it's hard to find "the right things" right now. And I honestly feel like Hillary's campaign represents the limits of logic -- without emotion one cannot win a political argument.
@Logan Darklighter: Unfortunately you're right that Trump is not a racist monster, he's just an ordinary monster who views all humans as beneath him. While this is not the end of the world, it is the end of a long era of political decency (and no that is not an oxymoron). If we're not careful, our children will grow up thinking that is OK for an adult to act like he does.
If you're interested in a good post by Scott Alexander, I recommend Meditations on Moloch. Despite the fact he's an atheist, this post managed to convince me that the Devil is real (which was probably not the intent but...) Content warning: postmodernism, AI, Carthage, fishing permits, poetry (his list is funnier)
@ Logan: Trump's claiming that Clinton won the popular vote by voter fraud means he are not just crying wolf. the wolf is inside the door.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- robkelk - 11-28-2016
ordnance11 Wrote:... and I will note that once we start getting into the cult of personality for politicians, authoritarian forms o government will not be far behind. ...Alas, that process started back in the 1960s, with John F. Kennedy.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
- ordnance11 - 11-29-2016
Quote:robkelk wrote:Nah, in Kennedy's time that was just good P.R. Nowhere did I see JFK insisting that he be adored. Don't forget he was a minority president as well. Trump, othoh demands that he be the numero uno. Big difference.Quote:ordnance11 wrote:Alas, that process started back in the 1960s, with John F. Kennedy.
... and I will note that once we start getting into the cult of personality for politicians, authoritarian forms o government will not be far behind. ...
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- ordnance11 - 01-30-2017
To Logan et al:
4 years from now we are all going to ask if we are better now than we where at this point in time.
Start praying.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- ordnance11 - 02-17-2017
Well. 1 month into the Trump administration. And already the first major scandal. Has to be a modern record. Definition post World War II.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- Foxboy - 02-20-2017
Ord? The hatchets were out November 10, and they started chopping before he was even inaugurated. It should be no surprise at ALL that a scandal exists at this point.
True or not, SOMETHING would be percolating in the media machine.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
- ordnance11 - 02-21-2017
Quote:Foxboy wrote:That the possibility of a quid pro quo exists between the Russians and the Trump campaign during and after the election is ho hum?
Ord? The hatchets were out November 10, and they started chopping before he was even inaugurated. It should be no surprise at ALL that a scandal exists at this point.
True or not, SOMETHING would be percolating in the media machine.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- Foxboy - 02-24-2017
It is. At least, it's not very likely to be the 80s cartoon villain levels so many seem to think it is. It's probably far more banal, like mutual ego-stroking between Putin and Trump.
So many people online right now are forgetting or never knew Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
- ordnance11 - 02-24-2017
Quote:Foxboy wrote:With Putin, malice is a perfectly acceptable default setting. He wants the USSR back and a fractured NATO would suit him just fine. Trump in the White House would make the US too chaotic to respond to any adventures of his and would suit him very well.
It is. At least, it's not very likely to be the 80s cartoon villain levels so many seem to think it is. It's probably far more banal, like mutual ego-stroking between Putin and Trump.
So many people online right now are forgetting or never knew Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
While we are on the subject:
The FBI denied a White House request to deny contracts between Trump campaign the the Russians.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell