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+--- Thread: The Biggest problem with the Amercian Healthcare Act (/showthread.php?tid=4052)
The Biggest problem with the Amercian Healthcare Act - ordnance11 - 03-08-2017
Backlash grows against proposed bill
The biggest problem IMO is this:
"Furthermore, at least one of the country’s biggest health-care groups weighed in with caution on the proposal. The American Hospital Association, representing 5,000 hospitals and other health-care groups, argued that the process should not advance until the CBO provides a cost estimate."
The GOP leadership is determined to pass this thing by Easter. They are taking a huge risk in rushing it through with knowing what the downside is. Also the Federal budget needs to be passed by mid-April. the Democrats are not going to help GOP on this and the far right is balking on the bill as it is. So I have my doubts if it will be passed this year. And if it does gets passed, the GOP owns this. We won't know the results until next election, but based on what I've been reading it won't be pretty for low income folks.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- LynnInDenver - 03-08-2017
I've got a couple of friends who are disabled... but it's specifically mental disability (one has a serious psychosis issue, the other is crippling depression). Which means they're on disability and Medicare. I fear one or both of them may not survive this because of the GOP view that these are "entitlements" (read: GOP think this stuff should be earned, not passed out) rather than rights, particularly with things that don't obviously at a glance make it impossible to work. And it's not going to matter if they take one, the other, or both away, the result will be the same.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
- ordnance11 - 03-09-2017
GOP doesn't believe that the non partisan Congressional Budget Office will say about coverage and cost
They're so bound and determined to repeal and replace that they'll believe that it wasn't their idea to pass this in 2020, blame anyone else.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- Bob Schroeck - 03-09-2017
Also, the head of the CBO is a Republican appointee! However, he appears to be genuinely non-partisan and they can't rely on him to jigger the numbers in their favor, so they're in the uncomfortable position of having to pre-emptively discredit one of their own.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- Labster - 03-09-2017
I can't believe that the Republicans are going to ram this law down our throats without proper review!
-- ∇×V
- Black Aeronaut - 03-09-2017
I can. They honestly feel that their constituents are the only ones that matter and that little things like 'compromise' and 'equality' are asinine notions.
- ordnance11 - 03-09-2017
The GOP is going to conflate "access" with "coverage". A worker that has a job at Wal-Mart can buy a Ferrari as an analogy. The question is can you afford it?
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- SilverFang01 - 03-11-2017
After watching Paul
Ryan’s press conference where
he tried to Power Point an explanation of how his reform would work and why it was necessary, my initial
reaction was “What a moron. Does anyone
actually believes any of this?”
But then after having a bit of a think I realized that he
knows precisely how insurance works.
Know what else he knows? That a lot of other people do not.
There is a high number of people who think that insurance
works like a high interest savings account/discount card. Something you pay
into, but the money is only yours and that is what you get back.
Ryan is playing to the crowd here. Lots of people don’t think that the healthy should pay
for the sick if you put it in bald terms like that. “My insurance premiums are for my insurance. I don’t want it going to cover other
people! I should be able to forgo this and pay less.”
And they are counting on that crowd to help them sell his reform.
- ordnance11 - 03-12-2017
Quote:SilverFang01 wrote:Those are the white low income folks who don't seem to realize that the costs of medical care is going to be more than what they can individually afford.
After watching Paul
Ryan’s press conference where
he tried to Power Point an explanation of how his reform would work and why it was necessary, my initial
reaction was “What a moron. Does anyone
actually believes any of this?”
But then after having a bit of a think I realized that he
knows precisely how insurance works.
Know what else he knows? That a lot of other people do not.
There is a high number of people who think that insurance
works like a high interest savings account/discount card. Something you pay
into, but the money is only yours and that is what you get back.
Ryan is playing to the crowd here. Lots of people don’t think that the healthy should pay
for the sick if you put it in bald terms like that. “My insurance premiums are for my insurance. I don’t want it going to cover other
people! I should be able to forgo this and pay less.”
And they are counting on that crowd to help them sell his reform.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- LynnInDenver - 03-12-2017
Yeah, you and I both recognize that, well, to a certain extent, we're paying for those health costs regardless if we're paying it via our health care premiums, or through the government trying to keep the hospitals from going under.
And yeah, I also recognize that health costs are going a little out of control. I'm not sure what the solution to that is, but it is NOT what the Republicans have on offer. All they're going to guarantee is an increasing percentage of the population being pulled out of participating in the economy for the simple fact that they got sick from something completely outside their own control, and the rest of us having to pay for that in one way or another.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
- Bob Schroeck - 03-14-2017
Quote:vorticity wrote:Well, it looks like they won't be able to. The CBO numbers came out today, and it's a disaster for the Republicans -- their plan result in loss of insurance for 14 million Americans over the first year, with an additional 24 million losing coverage over the next decade, and another 14 million not enrolling in/qualifying for Medicare, for a total of 52 million additional uninsured by 2026. The repeal crowd are ducking and covering. The White House and the hardliners are predictably disputing the numbers, basically insisting that the only true part of the CBO analysis is that premiums are going to go down, but everything else is an outright lie.
I can't believe that the Republicans are going to ram this law down our throats without proper review!
At least one Democratic senator who was leaning toward repeal, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, is now firmly opposed to repeal because of the result.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/14/politics/ ... index.html]CNN article here.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- ordnance11 - 03-15-2017
Quote:Bob Schroeck wrote:If you dig deeper it's who won't be insured. It will be the elderly andQuote:vorticity wrote:Well, it looks like they won't be able to. The CBO numbers came out today, and it's a disaster for the Republicans -- their plan result in loss of insurance for 14 million Americans over the first year, with an additional 24 million losing coverage over the next decade, and another 14 million not enrolling in/qualifying for Medicare, for a total of 52 million additional uninsured by 2026. The repeal crowd are ducking and covering. The White House and the hardliners are predictably disputing the numbers, basically insisting that the only true part of the CBO analysis is that premiums are going to go down, but everything else is an outright lie.
I can't believe that the Republicans are going to ram this law down our throats without proper review!
At least one Democratic senator who was leaning toward repeal, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, is now firmly opposed to repeal because of the result.
CNN article here.
the poor. So if the white working poor (and soon to be elderly) who voted for Trump are going to
be hammered by this. Kinda sad to be screwed over by the people who you voted for, but them's the breaks.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- Bob Schroeck - 03-15-2017
Well, if you buy into a con-man's spiel, you're gonna get conned. Kinda cause-and-effect there.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- ordnance11 - 03-16-2017
As it stands, the bill has the opposition of the Tea Party folks and the GOP moderates. One says it goes too far and the other says not far enough. No to say which faction has what views, eh? Change elements of the bill to please one and you lose the other. The Democrats are sitting on the sidelines and probably reminiscing about 2008. Probably the reason Ryan tried ramming it though because he knew that he'd catch flack. Note he kept saying that it needs to pass through the House. He never mentions the Senate. McConnell has kept mum throughout this episode. So it will probably die there if it gets pass the House in some form or fashion. Note Trump is not on the bully pulpit on this thing. He'll claim credit if he gets to sign it and not before. I doubt he'll even claim it since it is gonna break those campaign promise of "Healthcare For ALL!"
Note that the house is on tight schedule here. Tax reform is on the agenda and also the budget for this year and next year. Right now the margin to pass the bill is 21 votes in the House and 2 in the Senate. And if the bill dies?
Consequences for the GOP
So short term expect a government shutdown by end of April, midterms well expect that the GOP will lose seats in the House. Considering how energized the DNC will be this time, things don't look good for Trump.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
- ordnance11 - 03-22-2017
Well, Ryan tired putting in revisions and promises that sounds palatable to Freedom caucus. No dice. Trump promise to "go after" those who are balking at passage of the bill. No dice.. It is going to be interesting if it goes to a vote tomorrow or this weekend or does not go to a vote. Trump seems to think of healthcare a broccoli rather than dessert. He promises a "blood bath" if the GOP doesn't pass the AHCA bill. Considering the party in power always loses seats in the mid terms, they may get a bloodbath anyway.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell