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+--- Thread: *whimper* (/showthread.php?tid=4632)
*whimper* - Evil Midnight Lurker - 02-21-2008
I can barely afford to play WoW and CoH both. There's no way in hell I can add a third MMORPG to my budget.
SO WHY THE HELL DOES CRYPTIC HAVE TO DUMP THIS ON US?!
...If this game pans out, I might have to dump City. Or maybe play them both on alternate months...?
![[Image: indifferent.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif)
--Sam
"I AM MIGHTY! I have a glow you cannot see! I have a heart as big as the moon, as warm as bathwater!"
- Foxboy - 02-21-2008
Ohhhh, maaaan....
I'm right there along side you... I shudder to think of the system specs.
Another point, from what I've read, it seems like the former dev Statesman has reverted to some of the ideas from CoH Alpha, that is, total power choice
freedom.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
- CrimsonKMR - 02-21-2008
All I have to say is this - PLEASE PLEASE give people the ability to make it take less than 3 hours to build a character *remembers his one attempt at HERO*
There is no coincidence, only necessity....
- Clow Reed
- Ankhani - 02-21-2008
Eh. I'll check it out, although I usually stick to one game, as it is a lot easier to keep in touch. If it does pan out good, I'll probably ponder what
can be done with it. With these subscription fees, I would want to get my money's worth in the time paid; and with both games to work with neither could
get full attention...
I'll ponder this when it comes closer to fruition, and if there is a chance of a Beta to participate in.
---
The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
- Render - 02-21-2008
I'm enough of a superhero freak that I will probably check it out (hopefully in beta.) Some of the features they're promising sound, well, promising,
even though I never played Champions much. (my friends and I were already using the TSR Marvel Superheroes game with a homebrew character creation system that
fixed the biggest flaws in that game.) If it's good I can drop Shadows of Angmar, if I haven't already.
- Bob Schroeck - 02-21-2008
Hmmm. I'll have to check that out.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- Acyl - 02-21-2008
I'm solidly in the "I'll check it out when it's nearer release" camp. I've always been a skeptic about
new game releases, so that's always been my policy. I'm expecting that the game will push my existing desktop PC to the limit, though, so whether I can
even play it when it does come out is questionable.
Of course, the game's targeted for release in...what, Sept '09, so it's not like any pressing decisions need to be made. That's far off.
Like most other folks, I can't really justify subscription fees to multiple MMOs. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it, I suspect. It
doesn't help, of course, that I have absolutely no idea what I'll be doing by the end of '09 - not sure if I'll be back in the workforce or
gunning for grad school. If the latter, that means even less money available. =P
-- Acyl
- CrimsonKMR - 02-21-2008
Quote: Ankhani wrote:
Eh. I'll check it out, although I usually stick to one game, as it is a lot easier to keep in touch.
Not released yet, but looks really promising click me!
There is no coincidence, only necessity....
- Clow Reed
- Logan Darklighter - 02-22-2008
This has a LOT of potential.
But put me in the "skeptical but willing to be proven wrong" camp. I'll have to wait and see. But I HOPE they do well.
I think it'd be great for COH to have some competition. Up till now, they've been the only game in town (so to speak) for a Superhero MMO. I think if
both games do well, we ALL win!
WELL! There's something cool! - Logan Darklighter - 02-25-2008
Just watched the first teaser trailer. There's something in there that really impressed me that I've thought was one of the very FEW weaknesses of the
COH character modeling.
FACIAL EXPRESSIONS.
Check it out, two characters are shown emoting in the video in a way that they never could in COH. As much as I loved the overall customnizability of the faces
in COH, they were always static. You got more emoting done through body language.
Mobile faces really help bring characters to life. If this goes all the way through to the end product (and I have no reason to see why it wouldn't) then
that'll be a great boon to roleplaying and identifying with your character.
I hope we see more overall emotes available in the game too. One of the really fun bits from WoW is the emotes they have including the jokes and the flirts,
which are really funny.
And hey - come to think of it - are we gonna have VOICE emotes?
- jpub - 02-25-2008
I'm interested, but skeptical. They're going to have to modify the hell out of the Champions ruleset, because even the later forms have massive - and I
mean MASSIVE - faults that allow for combat-gods. Also, the ruleset has provisions for several social skills and considerations that are required to balance
the combat side of the game, and I question how you can do that in an MMO.
I'm keen to try beta testing, though.
- Evil Midnight Lurker - 02-25-2008
Considering that until recently this game was being developed as the Marvel MMORPG, I don't think its ruleset will bear more than a superficial resemblance
to HERO. It's more the world I'm interested in, anyway. (I mean... VIPER! We get to manhandle the Green Goons!
![[Image: smile.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif)
)My favorite thing about the gameplay announced thus far: you can create your own nemesis. ^.^
--Sam
"I must break you."
- Acyl - 02-25-2008
I can't find you an actual reference right now, but I believe it's written down somewhere - on the
website, possibly in one of the articles - that all they're using is the Champions (and later Dark Champions) campaign
setting. The game system will be original, though I think they said something about it being HERO inspired.
-- Acyl
- jpub - 02-25-2008
Well, one of the things Jack E. Mentions is the point-based system of Champions, and how he'd like to use that. No surprise, considering that was what they
tried in the early form of CoH, and dropped because it didn't lend itself to normal MMO gameplay - everyone made soloing tankmages.
Suprise surprise, he's trying it again several years later.
- Morganite - 02-25-2008
Can you really blame him? It'd probably be pretty cool if they can actually get it balanced somehow.
-Morgan.
- Valles - 02-25-2008
My first thought is to assign different kinds of points. Like, 'Damage points', 'Heal points', 'Effect points' and 'Tank
points', maybe. Besides, is 'Not a normal MMO' really that bad a thing? If nothing else, the sheer glee of an all-Kheld team should be an argument
that teams with flexible members can still be fun.
===========
===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
- jpub - 02-25-2008
See, my issue with this is that if you *really* consider comics, the healer and debuffer classes are nigh-nonexistent, and the mezzing types are universally of
a very high power level.
I'm all for the concept, I'm just worried that Jack's going to try to shoeshorn in the standard MMO elements again.
- Sofaspud - 02-26-2008
Y'know, I was just coming in here to post about this. Glad I decided to skim new topics first.
So the rumormill I've been hearing has it that this is City of Heroes 2. Anyone else heard this? I'm hoping it's NOT true, personally; I *like*
CoH the way it is, dammit! Sure, I'd add some things if I could (the whole 'create your own nemesis' bit is AWESOME), but it's just about
Right as it is.
Thoughts?
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
- Bob Schroeck - 02-26-2008
Agreed. While I'm interested by the Champions MMORPG, I'm not likely to pick it up and start playing. I have too much invested in COH, in terms of time, effort, and accumulated subscription fees. I agree -- if they could port the nemesis subsystem to COH I would be really thrilled. Likewise customizable power appearances -- if only to change the colors of the existing powers. But neither of those things is worth changing to a new game.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
- Render - 02-27-2008
Quote: jpub wrote:
See, my issue with this is that if you *really* consider comics, the healer and debuffer classes are nigh-nonexistent, and the mezzing types are universally
of a very high power level.
I'm not sure if the mez types are of a higher power level so much as melee types (and many squishies) do not all automatically have mez resistance; indeed
it's a time-honored tradition in comics to mez the powerhouse who cannot be stopped any other way.
If you include debuffers for whom it is a secondary effect or minor ability rather than a focus power (say, Iceman using cold to weaken armor, or Batman using
a flashbang) I think you'll find more debuffers than buffers or healers, but I agree with the point: I can't think of a single character whose
signature power is a debuff off the top of my head.
- Foxboy - 02-27-2008
Marvel's Cloak from the old duo Cloak and Dagger. His primary is a sight debuff with creepy mez as a secondary.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
- Acyl - 02-27-2008
Quote: jpub wrote:[/url]
See, my issue with this is that if you *really* consider comics, the healer and debuffer classes are nigh-nonexistent, and the mezzing types are universally
of a very high power level.
I'm all for the concept, I'm just worried that Jack's going to try to shoeshorn in the standard MMO elements again.
I've been reading the Champions
Online forums and following the media coverage. I can't provide you with complete URLs because...well admittedly I can't find them right now. But one
poster cited this list of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_%28role-playing_game%29#Character_archetypes_and_designs]Champions character archetypes from Wikipedia - in
summary, 'Bricks', 'Martial Artists', 'Energy Blasters', 'Mentalists'. They suggested these would be the main character classes
in Champions Online. And Jack Emmert replied that's very close to what they're planning.
It amuses me that this is also pretty much what City of Heroes has, at least in terms of general nomenclature. However, it
does look like things will work out differently...at least so far. Look at this article on
massively.com - "As Jack Emmert explains it, anybody in the game will be able to tank if they so desire --
they'll just tank differently."
What does concern me is the mechanics of the combat system, as detailed in that same article...that is, you spam a basic
attack until your endurance meter builds up, and then you can unleash your powers. Or at least that's what
it's suggesting. Which seems really enh to me. But we'll see. The Champions Online thread on the combat system, with one dev post (speaking of an
equilibrum point for endurance meter), is here. I'm
hoping they just mean basic attacks to restore endurance or restore endurance
faster. Being unable to open up a fight with a big alpha or even heal your teammates without spamming attacks sounds like it'd seriously suck
, so I'm hoping that's NOT what they mean.
I'm also sorta meh on the idea of more action-based gameplay, but that's possibly a good change of pace and something to distinguish CO in the
industry. I know for a fact that I definitely enjoyed Tabula Rasa's quasi-FPS gameplay, for instance.
-- Acyl
- Render - 02-27-2008
Quote: Foxboy wrote:
Marvel's Cloak from the old duo Cloak and Dagger. His primary is a sight debuff with creepy mez as a secondary.
I forgot about Cloak!
I never really got into Tabula Rasa... I wanted to like it, it has some nice ideas (you have to aim? taking cover actually helps? ZOMG!) but where it fell
apart for me was the total disconnect I felt between my shooting and the results. I'd blaze away, either from cover or while jinking around trying to get
there, and eventually, if the aliens/monsters didn't get me first, they'd flop over abruptly. I had NO IDEA whether I was doing well or badly. Did it
matter where I aimed? What was the whole target-lock thing actually doing? Which weapon/power should I be using? I never had any frickin' idea.
In Halo, by way of contrast, I rapidly learned that some weapons worked on some foes better than others, that enemies had weak points I could aim at, etc. I
didn't need this to be explained to me in a manual or forum because I could see it happening while playing the game. Remember that Far Side cartoon with
the dead mammoth with one arrow sticking out of it? "Maybe we should write that spot down" indeed.
Maybe I'm just not willing to put the same sort of time spent learning the intricacies of CoX into another MMO.
- Mekadave - 02-29-2008
Quote: Sofaspud wrote:
Y'know, I was just coming in here to post about this. Glad I decided to skim new topics first.
So the rumormill I've been hearing has it that this is City of Heroes 2. Anyone else heard this? I'm hoping it's NOT true, personally; I *like*
CoH the way it is, dammit! Sure, I'd add some things if I could (the whole 'create your own nemesis' bit is AWESOME), but it's just about
Right as it is.
Thoughts?
It never ceases to amaze me what rumors people will start. Nope, it's not. The only person left at Cryptic associated with CoH is Jack Emmert.
Everyone else went to the new NCSoft North America subsidiary. The only thing the two games will have in common are Emmert and the superhero genre.Global: @Jimmy Amp
"Broad-minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion." -- Will Rogers
- Acyl - 02-29-2008
Quote: Mekadave wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me what rumors people will start. Nope, it's not. The only person left at Cryptic associated with CoH is Jack Emmert. Everyone
else went to the new NCSoft North America subsidiary. The only thing the two games will have in common are Emmert and the superhero genre.
The entire City of Heroes/Villains team as of late 2007 moved to
NCSoft. That is everyone at Cryptic who was assigned to CoH at the time.
But there are guys at Cryptic who worked on CoH originally, but
subsequently shifted to other projects - and thus are still with Cryptic after the NCSoft buyout. Please note that the CoH Live Team was downsized around 2006.
Those guys who didn't leave Cryptic entirely...are presumably working on Champions Online.
For example, Al Rivera (aka Geko) is still with Cryptic. I just googled it to make sure. Mind,
there's no confirmation he's involved in Champions Online - but his position is described as 'Senior Staff Designer' and 'Manager of the
Combat System team' at the company level. He hasn't posted on the
Champions Online forums, but one of the other devs (Jeff Tulli) made a joke about him, so I'd imagine he's involved with Champions in some
capacity.
And Geko's blamed for a lot of the overall balance problems and nerfs CoH's gotten over the years
- up till somewhere in 2006 when Castle became the frontman for CoH powers and combat systems. Just as much as Jack Emmert in some circles. Until someone can
tell me Geko and other former CoH devs aren't working on Champions, I'll assume they are - for good or ill.
-- Acyl
-- Acyl