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+--- Thread: Now you can't trust a store or gas station's keypad (/showthread.php?tid=8990)
Now you can't trust a store or gas station's keypad - hmelton - 05-30-2007
PIN the suger pill banks call security so they don't have to actually have any security.
If the PIN doesn't change in a pattern that can't be easily calculated or predicted with each transaction then like a suger pill any resistance it has to a thief dissolves the first time a thief goes after it.
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www.pcworld.com/article/i...=nl_cxanws
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These crooks seemed to have used a different route, but I always wondered/worried and made fun of a security system that required every person in what is in most cases a near minimum wage job to be honest.
I wouldn't be surprise if the Police eventually discover that several of the checkout people in the stores were actually part of the teams. Either adhoc members by being slipped a few hundreds to look the other way or long term members of the teams that were actively searching for Checkout jobs to gain access to the keypads.
/QUOTE/
Authorities in a number of states have reported local instances of a new high-tech crime: Crooks replacing or "bugging" checkout keypads at grocery and convenience stores. The rigged keypads record your credit card number or the personal identification number (PIN) that you key in when using your debit card. The crooks later return to collect the keypads--sometimes by ripping them from checkout aisles--and use the intercepted data to siphon large sums of money from unsuspecting store patrons.
/ENDQUOTE/
howard melton
God bless
Re: Now you can't trust a store or gas station's keypad - jpub - 05-30-2007
You know, every time I read stuff like this, I'm very glad I have have a bank account and credit card that are insured against this type of thing.
If I can demonstrate it wasn't me - I don't pay. Plain and simple.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"
Re: Now you can't trust a store or gas station's keypad - Kokuten - 05-30-2007
we're back on the Fenspace money challenge again - Which fizzled to a stop with no clear winner, IIRC.
electronic monetary systems security, in the real world circa now, is like car door locks - it's there to keep the honest folk honest.
The only real security is generated by the tracking and control systems behind the weak front-end stuff, IMHO. Such as the insurance that Jpub mentioned.. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Re: Now you can't trust a store or gas station's keypad - Bob Schroeck - 05-30-2007
Crooks've been doing stuff like this for years -- the most outrageous examples have been entire false fronts over the card scan slots on ATM machines.
-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
Locks are for "honest" people, thats Orwellian rea - hmelton - 05-30-2007
Hello Kokuten(See my PS)
Locks are not for the "honest" people, to call someone "honest" who needs a lock to keep them from taking something is orwellian "1984" style speaking and reasoning and is an insult to honest people.
It's a variation of saying bad is good and yes is no.
Calling a thief "honest" simply isn't true if a person needs a lock to keep them out they are not by definition honest.
For honest people locks are a dangerous hindrance made necessary by the large number of lazy or stupid dishonest people.
In the last 30 years I've watch a rural community go from only latching the back screen doors and leaving the keys in a tractor or 4 wheel drive in case a neighbor had an accident and needed the vehicle or telephone in an emergency such as a fallen tree or had to pull out a stuck vehicle, while your at town.
Using the reasoning about having insurance and locks are for the honest people lets replace your apartment or house's and car's expensive locks with cheap locks.
Instead of you having a $50 to $150 dollar key and lock system you now have a $3 dollar electronic "Knock Lock" all it takes to get your vehicle or into your house is a simple, short and "secret" knock.
Banks and credit card companies have taken advantage of peoples ignorance about electronic transations and are saving themselves money by only protecting your credit cards and debit cards with the security equivalence of a $3 dollar "knock lock".
I have no experience with credit cards, but in the past it has taken quite a bit of hassle to "prove" to the bank that a debit card transaction wasn't done by the valid holder. (The computer dealer debited the account 5 times for a single computer.)
Sure you can rely on the insurance the banks and credits card companies make you sure you pay for, but just wait until you spend a 3 to 7 days needing money and your accounts are dry as you try to prove you didn't make the electronic transactions that suddenly emptied them.
As Bob pointed out this type of thing has been going on for quite a while and instead of protecting your money the banks and credit card companies decided to make thier customers buy a insurance and then charge other fees and still require you to watch your money and report any thiefs within 30 days of the loss. You don't actually get 30 days to find the loss you can get as little as 5 to 7 days from the arrival of the statements.
PS
Sorry Kukoten I just reread this and it seemed sarcastic . I'm not trying to be sarcastic to you. I'm just being sarcastic at your statement.
Your statements match almost exactly what a bank said to a neighbor after they allowed someone to take his money and left him having to take out a loan to even buy gas to get to work for the 5 days it took to clear up the problem of a 1200 dollar computer costing him 6000 dollars.
Incidentally my reply was "WOW! Modern BANKS are wonderful now we have to supply the security for the money they are keeping for you.
howard melton
God bless
Re: Locks are for "honest" people, thats Orwellian - Kokuten - 05-30-2007
Howard,
your point, sir, is valid. However, while my phrasing may have been unfortunate, I believe that the intent is true. Allow me to enlarge on the statement "The main purpose of a lock is to keep honest people honest".
It is my perception that establishing even a small layer of security will deter the vast majority of criminals. Additionally, this initial security prevents crimes of opportunity.
I cannot argue the bank issue - I do not have any experience with the failure of existing security measures, either personally or by happenstance. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979