New Teaser, 5/14/03

[Bob Schroeck]

In the absence of new material during my to-the-death battle with my writer's block, I'm ransacking my files of material for suitable, non-spoiler stuff to post. Here's one such scene, possibly one of the few places in the Walk where Doug acts exactly like a typical SI character. (And for that reason, it may not end up in the story at all... but enjoy it while it lasts. )
-- Bob
----------------------
"So why haven't you made an effort to cement your relationship
yet? I mean, you're dancing around her like you're expecting her
to reject you if you go too fast."

"Welll..."

I looked him straight in the blush. "You *are* afraid of going
too fast, aren't you?"

He ducked his head and grimaced. "Well, yeah."

"Trust me, Keiichi, that's not likely." I settled down on the
engawa. "Fortunately, she probably hasn't noticed that you're
taking an excessively long time to do anything."

Keiichi frowned. "What do you mean?"

I gestured vaguely towards where Belldandy was organizing half a
dozen songbirds into a chorus while she washed the dishes.

"Look at her, Keiichi. She looks to be all of what, nineteen, maybe
twenty years old?"

"Yeah..." he trailed off dreamily, and I smiled. Ah, young love.

"She isn't, you know. Fifteen hundred years ago, the Vikings
woshipped and feared her, and fifteen hundred years from now
someone else might well do the same. She's *immortal*, Keiichi.
A deity. And deities *don't* have the same sense of time as we
mortals, unless they've spent decades, centuries, in an avatar.
Your entire relationship -- even that bizarre 'childhood' meeting
of yours -- has all taken place in a blink of an eye for the Mind
that inhabits that body. She could wait for you to make the
first move until you die of old age and after, until the whole
damned planet crumbles into dust, and it would never occur to
her to get impatient -- because the Being that she expresses
simply does not live in Time the way you do."

Keiichi's eyes were wide. I guess he never thought that all
through before. I continued. "The upshot of this, though, is
that the Time mismatch thing works for you, too. You can't
go*too* fast, as far as I can figure -- all this is already
happening in an eyeblink for her; what's one more escalation of
the relationship?"

As his expression grew thoughtful, Keiichi nodded and stood up.
"You've given me a lot to consider, Doug-san," he said, bowing.
"If you'll excuse me...?"

"No problem," I replied, and he wandered off to think. As soon
as he was beyond earshot, I said, "You can come out now."

Urd slid out of a shadow in a manner that reminded me painfully
of Maggie. "That was a line of bull you just fed him, you know,"
she said reproachfully. "We're not inserted into this mortal
world wearing incorruptible vessels; we're actually living and
growing beings with a perfectly mortal sense of time."

I shrugged carelessly. "That's as may be. It doesn't matter.
The whole point was to give the kid a kick in the pants and jolt
him out of his passive acceptance of the status quo."

Urd scowled at me. "Yeah, well I've *tried* that and it didn't
work."

I snorted. "I've heard about your tries, Urd." I shifted my
voice to mimic Mr. Rogers. "Can you say 'bungle,' boys and
girls? Nice try." Back to my normal voice. "You went for the
hormones and it failed. I went straight for the heart. And his
own self-interest. Let's see if it works better."

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

Almost a spoiler. Enjoy.
-- Bob
--------------------

I blinked. "I'm going to have to be at ground zero." Three
simultaneous nods. "For a spell that burns through its subject,
sorts through her component energies and throws away the bits you
don't want?" Three more nods. "And you want me to *hold* her
during this?" Another simultaneous nod. "One question," I said
in a calm, quiet tone of voice that belied exactly how I felt
about this prospect.

"Yes?" Urd said.

"Just what is the ritual going to do to *me*?"

Skuld grabbed my hands in both of hers. "Nothing," she said.
"We think."

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[zojojojo]

Given the snippets we've seen of other steps, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're talking about Mara's Un-Fall (Redemtion?) here...
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[offsides]

Just a comment on the SI-ness of Dough talking to Keiichi about his relationship with Bell: It's no worse than Doug talking to Shinji about his fear - you aren't fixing the problem, you're just teaching them to look at it from a different perspective so that they can fix the problem themselves. Yes, it is fairly typical SI behavior, but it's also fairly canonical Doug to try and talk to people about their problems and help them look at them from a different perspective...
I'd keep it if that's the only problem - of course it doesn't mean the scene won't have to go for other reasons, but don't let the SI-ness of it bother you.
Just my $0.02
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large

[classicdrogn]

Given the snippets we've seen of other steps, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're talking about Mara's Un-Fall (Redemtion?) here...

Could be, or it could be Megumi got possessed/transformed/etc. again, poor girl. Maybe this time she'll remember? Heck, it could be Peorth or whassername the human girl who's always after Keiichi - it's not like the temple gang would let anyone stay possesed if the could help it, just because they might happen to not like the person.
- CD

[zojojojo]

---

or it could be Megumi got possessed/transformed/etc. again, poor girl. Maybe this time she'll remember? Heck, it could be Peorth or whassername the human girl who's always after Keiichi

---

I suppose so, but I don't think that an exorcism would requre molecular deconstruction and the full power of all 3 of the Norns... But that's just me...-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[Murmur the Fallen]

Say, if this is Mara/Marller, I wonder what would happen to her counterpart.
That's assuming that there's still going to be a doublet system in place for this series, since there's going to be a fusing with an rpg . . .
The doublet system was a sort of mutually assured annihilation wherein every god was tied with every demon, so one couldn't kill one without killing the other.
-murmur the fallen
and, say, have you seen the AMG movie? Man, was that kick ass or what?

[Bob Schroeck]

---

and, say, have you seen the AMG movie? Man, was that kick ass or what?

---

Oh yeah, very cool. We have it on DVD and in fact just watched it again a couple weeks ago.
I'm going to be lifting some of that imagery, you can be sure.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Logan Darklighter]

---

That's assuming that there's still going to be a doublet system in place for this series, since there's going to be a fusing with an rpg . . .
The doublet system was a sort of mutually assured annihilation wherein every god was tied with every demon, so one couldn't kill one without killing the other.

---

Well, here's a thought as to another reason why the demonic forces would hate Mara to be redeemed.
It breaks the doublet system. If she redeems, then her counterpart no longer has an evil doublet. They might still be linked, but they'd be on the same side now. Or the doublet spell, keyed to a demonic Mara, simply dissapates, now that Mara is no longer a demon. Now Mara and her former counterpart have no doublet restriction at all!
Here's a thought. What if Mara and Peorth were the ones who were doublets?
Mind you - the whole doublet thing is one of those aspects of OMG that I kinda snorted at. I love Fujishima's art and storytelling style. But his backstory and cosmology for Oh My Goddess is not very consistent. And that's a polite understatment. As far as how a given fanfiction treats the magic and cosmology of the world, it's almost impossible to be consistent with the manga, because the manga isn't consistent with itself! Don't be surprised in a few years if Fujishima completely forgets all about the doublet system and does something that completely contradicts it.
-Logan
-----------------
"So there I was, lying flat on my back, with my face pressed into the dirt, thinking, "Wait a minute, something's not rig..."
-----------------

[Trodamus]

When dealing with the fates of gods and goddesses, or more importantly, omnipotent beings who know every damn thing before it has the faintest glimmer of occuring, it's pretty feasible that Mara's partner in the doublet system, if she is to redeem and turn to the side of good, would have been a demon at the outset.
Of course, it could have started as, and remain as an angel, for the sake of creating a nifty plot that most people wouldn't pause in considering.

[Blackscale]

Rise? Ascend? Rebound?
It strikes me that it would cause all KINDS of weird metaphysical effects if you bungee jumped off of Heaven...

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Rise? Ascend? Rebound?

---

Since we're using mostly In Nomine terminology here, it would be "Redeem". The functional difference is that Falling you always do by yourself, but Redemption requires a more powerful agency to approve and perform.

---

It strikes me that it would cause all KINDS of weird metaphysical effects if you bungee jumped off of Heaven...

---

There are certain kinds of angel who would enjoy doing stuff like that...
On a less literal note, one of the In Nomine sourcebooks implies that there have been demons who have Redeemed, then couldn't hack being angels and Fell again...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

By the way, Blackscale, I only just this morning realized that you're a new user here. A belated welcome to you!

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Blackscale]

Actually, I'm not all that new.
I just happen to use my old IRC/MUD handle for ezboard, and my real name on the pre-readers list.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

I just happen to use my old IRC/MUD handle for ezboard, and my real name on the pre-readers list.

---

Bwah? You're one of my prereaders? Who?
No, don't tell me here, if you don't want to -- drop me an email and confirm it, and I'll change your title on the board to include "Prereader" like the others.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[williath]

---

It breaks the doublet system. If she redeems, then her counterpart no longer has an evil doublet. They might still be linked, but they'd be on the same side now. Or the doublet spell, keyed to a demonic Mara, simply dissapates, now that Mara is no longer a demon. Now Mara and her former counterpart have no doublet restriction at all!

---

When a pair of doublets is created their memories are wiped, no one knows who is whose doublet. If Mara were to redeem, that would leave here without an evil doublet, and therefore could be a target for demons, knowing that they wont lose one of their own, but infact two goddess die if they succeed. to quote Peorth from DH vol 16 chapter called The trouble with doublets - "The reason we cant risk killing each other is because we never know who the chosen ones are, killing one of you would mean killing one of our own, but we never know who!! Its the randomness that makes the system work"
Also due to shared state reactions, how would this affect Mara's divine doublet.Thrase/Thraen/Williath
"He Who Trains Dies"Thrase/Thraen/Williath

"He Who Trains Dies"

[robkelk]

---

Heck, it could be Peorth or whassername the human girl who's always after Keiichi

---

Sayoko.
-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[robkelk]

---

to quote Peorth from DH vol 16 chapter called The trouble with doublets - "The reason we cant risk killing each other is because we never know who the chosen ones are, killing one of you would mean killing one of our own, but we never know who!! Its the randomness that makes the system work"

---

Actually... I think that there's enough "wiggle room" in Peorth's comment that it's possible not every god and demon is part of the doublet system.
If the system works the way it's supposed to, the only ones who know which gods and demons are doublets are Kami-sama and whoever's in charge of the system on the demons' side (presumably Hild). I wouldn't put it past either of them to imply that everyone takes part, but only put the more powerful ones through the system.
Also, there would have to be an identical number of gods and demons if everyone was part of the system. How likely is that?
And what about oddball cases like Urd? Is she her own doublet?
-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[robkelk]

---

Your entire relationship -- even that bizarre 'childhood' meeting of yours -- has all taken place in a blink of an eye for the Mind that inhabits that body.

---

Er... Keiichi isn't supposed to remember that meeting... That's either a continuty gaffe or a minor spoiler that K1's getting that memory back.
-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[classicdrogn]

Even if he didn't remember it, I doubt he'd have been kept in the dark about what wwas causing that problem after the fact, so he'd probably know about it second hand. Even if not in canon, surely it's plausible enough to fly?
- CD
What, you think Samuel L. Jackson isn't going to survive the zombie apocalypse?

SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[williath]

---

Actually... I think that there's enough "wiggle room" in Peorth's comment that it's possible not every god and demon is part of the doublet system.

---

I don't disagree with that or the rest of your post. And there is definitely wiggle room. The system was presumably created by and is definitely maintained by kami-sama and his opposite number to avoid the of gods/demons of both sexes.
Peorth's comment (assuming the translation I posted was completely accurate) does state that not every god and demon has a doublet. Oddball cases are likely to attract attention/anger are so are MORE likely to have a doublet to prevent them being killed.
My take on the system is as follows:
1) If a god/demo kills one of their opposite number then they COULD lose one of their number as well and they don't want that.
2) Kami-sama and his opposite number either know or work out those gods and demos who are more likely to be in situations where they may be killed by one of their opposite number are more likely to create a doublet pair.Thrase/Thraen/Williath
"He Who Trains Dies"Thrase/Thraen/Williath

"He Who Trains Dies"

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Er... Keiichi isn't supposed to remember that meeting... That's either a continuty gaffe or a minor spoiler

---

Gaffe, although to be fair, I was working off the OVAs and there's no definitive indication one way or another of precisely what Keiichi remembers. I always took his actions as indicating that he did remember something -- enough, at least, to keep his promise.

-- Bob
---------
It's spelt "Frodo Baggins" but it's pronounced "Throat-wobbler Mangrove."

[Bob Schroeck]

Oh, and by the way, Willath, welcome to the forums. I'm sorry if I overlooked you in all the post-sabotage confusion, but I finally spotted you! Since you've already jumped into a discussion with both feet, you don't really need my invite, but by all means feel free to keep doing so!

-- Bob
---------
It's spelt "Frodo Baggins" but it's pronounced "Throat-wobbler Mangrove."

[williath]

I always took it as keiichi rembered about from near the end of the OAV. Keichii's line is "Im glad I was able to keep my promise, what promise" So he certainly remembers something going on. I wouldnt put it beyond him to ask bell later about it.
Thanks for the welcome Bob, been lurking for a while. I did send you a private message a little while ago (waits for the blank look). Keep up the great writing please .Thrase/Thraen/Williath
"He Who Trains Dies"Thrase/Thraen/Williath

"He Who Trains Dies"

[robkelk]

---

... I was working off the OVAs and there's no definitive indication one way or another of precisely what Keiichi remembers. I always took his actions as indicating that he did remember something -- enough, at least, to keep his promise.

---

True enough. (There's also the possibility that Urd might have mentioned something sometime to K1, which refreshed his memory. I wouldn't put it past Urd to play fast and loose with Kami-sama's instructions...)
-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012