[RFC]For Tailed Ones

[robkelk]

Something I have been playing around with for a few weeks, but its still a first draft of the idea. What do you think?
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For Tailed Ones
»At first we were a bit worried because it looked like the catgirls from Jenga enjoyed being catgirls. But like us they are just victims of the Boskones. And its nice to have some friends out there.«
- Kyliea, Liberty 2019

How widespread is this attitude amond catgilrs (Liberatrix catgirls in particular)? Because being bitter just after the war is perfectly reasonable, but still having this kind of attitude ("They enjoy beign catgilrs? How do they dare!") in 2019 is worrying -most of then, after all, only have the memory of being catgirls, not the person they were before.

According to the FenWiki page on the Catgirling Machine, "The original personality arrives intact in the new nervous system."

And, amazing as this may sound to Furries, most people want to remain human...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Ace Dreamer]

HRogge wrote:

---

As for the basic Catgirling Machine messing with minds, the write-up implies that the trauma of the transformation makes it easy for Boskone to mess with their motivations, probably using classical "brain washing", but doesn't say anything about altering their memories.  That tech came later, so likely quite a few catgirls remember their original lives.

The tech came later, but its unclear how much later. One of the horror of the later Boskone war was that a lot of the victims lost everything... even who they are.

So the percentage of how many do remember their live and how many do not is unclear... I always imagined that the number of catgirls produced by the Boskones went up after they got all the tech together to make their operation work smoothly.

Reading the wiki carefully, and what I can remember from the stories, the 'standard' Catgirling Machine did not mess with memories.
As to when the memory mangling tech arrived, the first reference I can see to it is with regard to Quattro, and her memory experiments on humans (in which I include catgirls).  Meta knowledge tells us Quattro wasn't created until 2014, by Agatha Clay, which was after the fall of Boskone Prime, the end of Operation Great Justice.
There would be room for quite a few stories of Fen 'invading' Earth, to retrieve catgirls who had already been processed through the Boskone pipeline, and ended up with their final 'owners'.  But, I've seen no suggestion that there were significant post-processing facilities on Earth that 'trained' catgirls, or messed with memories.
On a meta level, I could quite understand the lack of these stories - they could be quite dystopic, and arguably a bit repetitive.  Fen doing this work would likely be really unpopular with Earth authorities - even Earth-based anti-slavery organisations might have doubts about their "hit and snatch" practices.
Back in Fenspace, even if Quattro immediately started on developing the tech after incept, that means the memory tech didn't appear until after OGJ had really badly damaged Boskone, and supposedly rescued most of the catgirls.  That would mean that if OGJ was the source of most of the catgirls on Liberatrix all of those had intact memories, at least due to their pass through the Catgirling Machine.
So, some possibilities are:

• someone unknown developed the memory tech that Quattro perfected, before 2014 - even if they did, this wasn't (according to the wiki) in wide use
• there was another memory tech around that didn't involve the Catgirling Machine - if this was the case we've no (current) evidence it was in wide use
• Boskone had another catgirling operation that OGJ didn't touch - this seems unlikely, from how thoroughly OGJ went after slavery, and wouldn't fit the over-all tone of the stories

If you want a significant number of the catgirls on Liberatrix to not know of their previous lives, I think you'll need to make a significant change to the Fenspace Timeline.
Of course, there is every chance I've missing something important...
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[Ace Dreamer]

I tried to work out what the origin of the name "Cats of Paradise" was, and the only ref I could see was to an old "Maverick" episode. I don't recall coming across them in furry fandom, but I only have a limited knowledge of that. Otherwise, I'm assuming the name is a version of some other name, so, a reference to something else. Help, please?

Apart from the Catgirling Machine generated catgirls, and Cathy (and a few rabbit and wolf people), the furry side of Fenspace hasn't been explored a lot. Unless, I've missed reading those stories. [grin]
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[Star Ranger4]

Reading the wiki carefully, and what I can remember from the stories, the 'standard' Catgirling Machine did not mess with memories.

http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?title=Tabitha_Doe
First known catgirl victim.  Granted some of it she did to herself later but to me its always been a case of while the personalty might still be there the actual formative memories of the person (as far as who or what they were before) always wind up destroyed; either as part of the actual process or as part of their... "acclimation training" afterwards
Also, Personality does NOT neccecarily include Memories or skills.  We've seen examples both go both ways in stories due to the needs of dramatic tension. 
She who would be the Major if there was a Section 9. 
Aurthur Dobbs of the Pinafore.
It appears that how much of "you" survives the process is completely dependant on your strength of will.  This actually makes sense given the memetic nature of Handwavium.  Does the person in the vat have enough willpower points to semi bend the wave to their own will and save what makes them them?  People like Andy or the Dobbs did.  Tabatha Doe didnt.  I'd argue that those who get through the process, and especially those who get through the 'special training' the boskones treated them to afterwards represent 10 percent of the population.  this leaves 90 percent for whom either the trauma of the catgirling or the "training" they suffered after have shattered any memories of who or what they were before beyond anyone's recovery.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[HRogge]

According to the FenWiki page on the Catgirling Machine, "The original personality arrives intact in the new nervous system."

Maybe its a personal brainbug...

from what I got from the IRC chat and reading through the wiki, I somehow got the idea that this brainwashing was not uncommon during the late Season 1...

for example with this tech: http://fenspace.net/index.php5?title=Tabitha_Doe

And, amazing as this may sound to Furries, most people want to remain human...

Yeah... I have to think a little bit more what would be a good and reasonable way for Liberatrix from 2014 on... on one side many/most of them would like to become a human again, but after being told year for year that it seems to be impossible to reverse a biomod, many of them might start working on a new life instead of only looking at their old one.

[Rakhasa]

to me its always been a case of while the personalty might still be there the actual formative memories of the person (as far as who or what they were before) always wind up destroyed; either as part of the actual process or as part of their... "acclimation training" afterwards

To me, too. I had gotten the impression that the catgirls that remember their lives were a minority, and even those were ones whose modification had been stopped halfway for some reason, like Andy Cruger.

[Star Ranger4]

Yeah... I have to think a little bit more what would be a good and reasonable way for Liberatrix from 2014 on... on one side many/most of them would like to become a human again, but after being told year for year that it seems to be impossible to reverse a biomod, many of them might start working on a new life instead of only looking at their old one.

There is additional psychological trauma involved as well.  Although its glossed over to an extent because we are keep our eyes on the positive thanks to Mal and his whip; part of the real tragedy of the catgirls is how they were used AFTER they came out of the machine.  Comfort women type slaves.  Property.  And working through THAT to get to a final acceptance of who they are and moving forward can also explain a great deal of it.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[HRogge]

There is additional psychological trauma involved as well. Although its glossed over to an extent because we are keep our eyes on the positive thanks to Mal and his whip; part of the real tragedy of the catgirls is how they were used AFTER they came out of the machine. Comfort women type slaves. Property. And working through THAT to get to a final acceptance of who they are and moving forward can also explain a great deal of it.

Yes, that too...

[Foxboy]

Right. Tabitha was either slightly weak-willed, still awake for the transformation, or heavily abused by her sleep-teacher loaded with porn instead of language tapes... or some combination.

Remember, being awake for the transformation means you feel the goo stripping your neurons...

And the Boskone running catgirls are the kind of criminals who could make meek and submissive slaves out of unmodded folks without 'wave... so yeah.

The sleep teacher was "reverse engineered" by "hey it was possible let's try to get it again!" Instead of "Here's how that one catgirl did it, let's copy it!"

Unlike the catgirl machine, which was done by "blueprint."
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Ace Dreamer]

Ignoring issues of will power, people vary between being inward directed, and outward directed, and in how much of their sense of identity is hung on their appearance, and how much on more abstract ideas of personal value. Those who have never really thought about who they are, or their philosophy of life, may be more or less vulnerable. It is difficult to really tell until someone is put to the test. Some 'mentally tough' people might just shatter.

It is possible that role-players, who are used to thinking themselves into "other skins" might be more resistant to identity loss due to their shape being forcibly changed. Those who regard their gaming characters as just the means by which they're having fun in some game, likely less so. Maybe having role-played shape-shifters would help?

Catgirling someone with the sort of temper than inclines them to be a natural berserk could be a really, really, bad idea...
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[Star Ranger4]

*Cough* Andy Kramer *cough*
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[HRogge]

*Cough* Andy Kramer *cough*

Yes, this one really went badly for the Boskones.

[robkelk]

While looking for something else, I discovered the perfect music for the company's commercials... and it's older than I am.

Put Your Cat Clothes On, by Carl Perkins
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Ace Dreamer]

While looking for something else, I discovered the perfect music for the company's commercials... and it's older than I am.

Put Your Cat Clothes On, by Carl Perkins

That link didn't work for me - couldn't find the domain.  This seems to be OK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfZecGUj-NQ
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind