A concern that came to me...

[Sirrocco]

I've had a thing that's been bubbling in the back of my head that's been bothering me, and I finally figured out what it was.
We've got the US military (mostly the Air Force) going after people who are trying to escape the gravity well, using lethal force.
These people are US citizens (at least briefly) and aren't posing a threat to the Constitution (they're leaving, and likely won't be back.) Now, they're breaking a variety of laws, so having the FBI, SWAT Teams, and so forth going after them is reasonable, if perhaps a little excessive, but that's not what's going on. We're intercepting them with USAF assets.
I could credit an administration being anti-wave enough to give the order... and I could credit that you'd have people who would obey it, but you're also going to have officers - a *lot* of officers - who declare that the order is unlawful, immoral, or unethical, and refuse to fly. It's mostly going to *be* pilots that do it, too - and generally the young, unmarried idealistic types. So... what does the administration do *then*?
(mind you, this is not going to be as extreme as it otherwise might be - military leadership is pretty smart about basic psychology of military people, and there will likely be a system where they basically tweak it so that the folks going after the handwavers are volunteers - but it'll happen some. It'll certainly happen more than once, and if the nation is more 60/40 on handwavium than 90/10, it'll happen quite a bit. In our system, 60/40 is still a mandate, and 70/30 is an impressively strong one.)

[Kokuten]

I wondered why my ears were burning..
At least in my case, you've got a truly massive chunk of your home state, _flying_ and talking smack to you. You're a young, idealistic 1st. loot with not a thought in your head that wasn't air force issues.
so you fire a warning shot.
what's a warning shot into something the size of a shopping mall, plus parking lot, plus a good bit more?
My basic setup was that the basic fact of "Flying island OMG" caused a SAN check on the part of the pilot. He failed. I rolled initiative. I failed.
I cannot discount your concern, though, and I'm willing to entertain any suggestions or comments or thoughts you have on the subject.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Sirrocco]

Actually, it wasn't explicitly about you - you just caused it to suddenly accrete out of solution. I think we'd pretty much accepted this - that a lot of folks would get offground with minimal issues, but some would face superior firepower. Alternately, if we didn't want to have the Administration siccing the Armed Forces on its own people, we could say that it's individual incidents, with scared/triggerhappy folks making the judgement calls, and mostly people just have to deal with law enforcement, if that. I'm just thinking that if the administration was explicitly cracking down on handwavium through military force, there would be some repercussions.
Timing also matters. Were you lifting before or after Kandorcon? Was this in the initial panic, or after people had settled down a bit?

[classicdrogn]

Well, as far as having lethal force employed in the Wave Convoy intercept, I figured it was justified by
a) OMFG A GIANT ROBOT CARRYING OFF A CAR!!
b) a body in its wake ("me") whether biomodded or not, and a guy who says it attacked him and rescued a "bio-mod freak" he was trying to detain until the authorities could arrive, even if he's been found to have gone overboard on the "detaining" - gunfire is not considered apropos for a citizen's arrest, after all.
c) a week's media and public pressure to Do Something after getting all stirred up about it being some kind of terrorist attack in the state capital (Of New Hampshire. Riiiiight.)
At that point, finding and officer willing to fly, and fire, might not be so rough, I thought. I did debate with myself about whether to have the USAF guys actually open fire or just orbit and fly with unapproved proximity and make stern demands over the radio, but went for drama in the end. Also... who else has air assets to intercept at highish speeds, if not the Air Force? (or the Marines, I suppose, or the Navy close enough to a carrier if that's not Marines or AF guys on a Navy platform) The Coast Guard has the traditional border watch thing, but they're mainly helicopter and sensor platform craft as I understand it, and INS (leaving aside any putative Division Six) and law enforcement are pretty much ground pounders without even as much helicopter fleet as the Coast Guard.

- CDSERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
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--
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[M Fnord]

The answer's pretty simple: Those found disobeying orders will be court martialed and (if they're lucky) drummed out of the service. Even if - hell, especially if - they're in the right.
And that's just the Air Force. The court of public opinion will be even worse. I mean, anybody who gets cashiered for this and it becomes known to the media will be accused of cowardice in the face of a terrorist threat, allowing dangerous individuals to almost trigger another 9/11 (no matter that the intercept was over Middle of Nowhere, WY with nothing bigger than a sheep within 200 miles and they were going straight up at the time) bloodthirsty keyboard commandos will demand executions at dawn... not pretty.---
Mr. Fnord
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Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

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"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Kokuten]

---

Timing also matters. Were you lifting before or after Kandorcon? Was this in the initial panic, or after people had settled down a bit?

---

Sept. 20, '09, ~3 months after Kandorcon. My incident didn't make papers, mostly due to no loss of (sentient) life.
Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[M Fnord]

*checks timeline* KandorCon and the amnesty are '10, not '09, fwiw.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Kokuten]

brainfart on my part.
sept. 20, '09, ~ 9 months before Kandorcon.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Sirrocco]

Classic: oh, it's perfectly understandable. I wasn't trying to say that it wouldn't happen. I was trying to say that it would have *implications*. Especially if we took it much further. Yours was freaking out and timing. The Recent Dfficulties In Alaska might have been someone going a little trigger-happy (particularly if it was before the Treaty). Beyond that, though, if we were going to have it be a general rule that lifting out of the US might get you a visit from the USAF... that *means* something.
Fnord: Well, there are some questions there. Mostly, I think you're right. The Courtmartials are going to wind up with [Punishment] and dismissal from the military. They certainly won't be allowed to stay in. The punishments will depend dramatically on how the officers on the Court feel, however.
(Thinking maybe I should try writing this one. We'll see. Don't have enough of a grasp on it yet, anyway.)
The major thing here, though, is the degree to which the handwavium issue has split along party lines. My guess is, once the initial wave of panic subsides, we're going to go back to business as usual and part of that is going to be accusing the current administration of overreacting and reacting inappropriately. The revolution will be blogged. Honestly, I figure that putting military personnel in a position where significant numbers of them are willing to stand up and accept dismissal and charges on moral grounds? It's not good for the credibility of an administration. Politicians are not stupid. If the Public Opinion frenzy is bad enough, they might play McCarthy with it to a degree, but otherwise, they'll want to *limit* the media exposure, either by sweeping it under the rug or by not making that call in the first place. Regardless, we're going to have some crack pilots coming out the other end who will never fly a military aircraft again, but would be accepted into space with open arms.
On the other hand, going too deep into the weeds dirtside may not be in our best interests from a storyline POV. The next step would be to start considering the implications in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that has the potential to get ugly *real* quick.

[M Fnord]

---

On the other hand, going too deep into the weeds dirtside may not be in our best interests from a storyline POV. The next step would be to start considering the implications in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that has the potential to get ugly *real* quick.

---

Yeeaaaah, which is kinda why I'd have preferred to stay away from Earth in general in the first place. Ah well, let's consider this particular subject off-limits for now, just to avoid nastiness.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Kokuten]

the 'concerns over iraq' would be over when stir-crazy MilFen FAE the whole area into a glass crater.
So let's not go there at all.

I'd go so far as to say that anyone who's foolish enough to be able to show up on radar in range of USAF resources _is_ going to get a visit.
It would depend on CHA, LUCK, and Skill:Bluff to determine what _happened_ when a USAF element popped over to ask you just what the _hell_ you thought you were doing.
Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[drakensis]

Um, yeah. I mean the Russian Federation Air Force basically fired a couple of warning shots at Morden and chased him until they were RTB for fuel. I don't think there's going to be a policy of shooting people down deliberately unless you're obviously armed or making a hazard of yourself. (Playing Anakin Skywalker or SkyCaptain through Manhattan, for example, will score you no points whatsoever).D for Drakensis
You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.