Special Prosecutor appointed

[Labster]

Mueller; Mueller; Mueller?
Deputy attorney general appoints special counsel to oversee probe of Russian interference in election
That was actually pretty fast.  What are we on, day 118 of the Trump Administration?
Also, if you missed it in the news today:House Majority Leader McCarthy told colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump- and -Trump’s Team Knew of Flynn Inquiry Before He Took Office
-- ∇×V

[ordnance11]

Yeah and they're already whispering President Pence. Color me skeptical since he's a good soldier who lied for Trump.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[robkelk]

He's next in line, and AFAIK there's no legal way to bypass him.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Matrix Dragon]

And he's got his phone back off his babysitter.

[ordnance11]

robkelk wrote:

---

He's next in line, and AFAIK there's no legal way to bypass him.

Sure there is.  You can also prosecute a sitting VP for crimes. That happened to Spiro Agnew.  But that means Paul Ryan becomes president. So what is the lesser of the 2 evils?
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Bob Schroeck]

You never know... Ryan might not want to risk any more Republican seats in 2018 than are already in jeopardy.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Labster]

There's a difference between being "a good soldier" and being someone who actually committed crimes. A certain amount of loyalty is expected in politics, or otherwise the system doesn't work at all. If all Pence has done is go out and repeat talking points, or accept the advice of other administration officials without asking potentially compromising questions, then there's nothing to impeach him on. That's exactly what I'd do if I was him: get along, keep a low profile, and basically ??????. It increases your chances of becoming President some day.

Y'all should remember that Spiro Agnew was prosecuted on grounds entirely independent of Watergate, mostly involving bribery in Maryland. Hopefully Trump's administration is not dumb enough to put Pence in a compromising position by accident or on purpose, but with these goons you never know. But given the absence of evidence, I think all of this talk about Pence not becoming the next president is just fantasy.
-- ∇×V

[ordnance11]

vorticity wrote:

---

There's a difference between being "a good soldier" and being someone who actually committed crimes. A certain amount of loyalty is expected in politics, or otherwise the system doesn't work at all. If all Pence has done is go out and repeat talking points, or accept the advice of other administration officials without asking potentially compromising questions, then there's nothing to impeach him on. That's exactly what I'd do if I was him: get along, keep a low profile, and basically ??????. It increases your chances of becoming President some day.

Y'all should remember that Spiro Agnew was prosecuted on grounds entirely independent of Watergate, mostly involving bribery in Maryland. Hopefully Trump's administration is not dumb enough to put Pence in a compromising position by accident or on purpose, but with these goons you never know. But given the absence of evidence, I think all of this talk about Pence not becoming the next president is just fantasy.

So far that is what we know. It'll be interesting to know how far the rot goes down. If Pence showed any action he placed party over country, I doubt he'll get anything done before 2020 rolls around.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Labster]

Well, Pence certainly thinks he has a chance. He's apparently filed paperwork to start a Political Action Committee, which raises the question, "what office is he running for?" Given the context, it's not hard to guess the answer.
-- ∇×V

[Bob Schroeck]

vorticity wrote:

---

That's exactly what I'd do if I was him: get along, keep a low profile, and basically ??????. It increases your chances of becoming President some day. 

This may be why he's http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/politics/ ... index.html.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Black Aeronaut]

It's already too late for him, I think. He had been parroting the same line of bullshit about Flynn until Trump blew that pile of shit apart with his interview. And saying that he had no idea about Flynn won't help him, either, because he was warned by a Senator back in November. Of course, Pence says he never got that letter.

Dumbshit. Doesn't he realize how incompetent that makes him look?

Unless he realizes he's gonna get impeached, too, and is trying to play the up the incompetence card to avoid more serious penalties.

[ordnance11]

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

It's already too late for him, I think. He had been parroting the same line of bullshit about Flynn until Trump blew that pile of shit apart with his interview. And saying that he had no idea about Flynn won't help him, either, because he was warned by a Senator back in November. Of course, Pence says he never got that letter.

Dumbshit. Doesn't he realize how incompetent that makes him look?

Unless he realizes he's gonna get impeached, too, and is trying to play the up the incompetence card to avoid more serious penalties.

So what happens whe POTUS and Veep get's impeached at the same time? how does the act of succession work?
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[robkelk]

robkelk wrote:He's next in line, and AFAIK there's no legal way to bypass him.

Sure there is.  You can also prosecute a sitting VP for crimes. That happened to Spiro Agnew.  But that means Paul Ryan becomes president. So what is the lesser of the 2 evils?

Hmmmmm... Follow the Agnew pattern: prosecute the VP first, get the VP to resign, replace the VP, then impeach the POTUS. The tricky part is replacing the VP with somebody competent (Ford was neither stellar nor horrid; one might want to do better this time).
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Black Aeronaut]

ordnance11 wrote:

---

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

It's already too late for him, I think. He had been parroting the same line of bullshit about Flynn until Trump blew that pile of shit apart with his interview. And saying that he had no idea about Flynn won't help him, either, because he was warned by a Senator back in November. Of course, Pence says he never got that letter.

Dumbshit. Doesn't he realize how incompetent that makes him look?

Unless he realizes he's gonna get impeached, too, and is trying to play the up the incompetence card to avoid more serious penalties.

So what happens whe POTUS and Veep get's impeached at the same time? how does the act of succession work?

If they impeach both Trump and Pence in one go, the line of succession goes to President Pro Tempore of The Senate (the VP is already President of the Senate, so it goes to the next guy down from him).

And after the President Pro Tempore, it goes to The Speaker of the House of Representatives.

This is why it'd be such a huge deal if the Republicans hold off on impeachment until midterms.  Because if both the House and the Senate swing to the Democrats, then it's game over for the Republicans - literally the worst possible outcome for them.  Because if that happens, a new President Pro Tempore and Speaker of the House must be selected... and whoever those are...  well, once the Democrats go full on for impeachment (and I'm pretty sure that they'll go after both Trump and Pence, because while Pence might be competent, he still leaves much to be desired)... guess who your new POTUS and VPOTUS are gonna be?

[ordnance11]

robkelk wrote:

---

ordnance11 wrote:

---

robkelk wrote:He's next in line, and AFAIK there's no legal way to bypass him.

Sure there is.  You can also prosecute a sitting VP for crimes. That happened to Spiro Agnew.  But that means Paul Ryan becomes president. So what is the lesser of the 2 evils?

Hmmmmm... Follow the Agnew pattern: prosecute the VP first, get the VP to resign, replace the VP, then impeach the POTUS. The tricky part is replacing the VP with somebody competent (Ford was neither stellar nor horrid; one might want to do better this time).

Rob, it doesn't matter if the person they pick to replace is competent or is Selina Meyer. He/She will be so tainted that the job will just be a caretaker position until the Democrats win in 2020. A Frank Underwood type might be able to finesse his way in but I don't see one.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[LynnInDenver]

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

This is why it'd be such a huge deal if the Republicans hold off on impeachment until midterms.  Because if both the House and the Senate swing to the Democrats, then it's game over for the Republicans - literally the worst possible outcome for them.  Because if that happens, a new President Pro Tempore and Speaker of the House must be selected... and whoever those are...  well, once the Democrats go full on for impeachment (and I'm pretty sure that they'll go after both Trump and Pence, because while Pence might be competent, he still leaves much to be desired)... guess who your new POTUS and VPOTUS are gonna be?

I bet some of them are hoping they can get the perfect timing; let Trump be their distraction for the public attention for a little bit longer, then get impeachment going just late enough that they can replace him before the midterms play out, but only just before so that they get maximum distraction value and can (try to) account for the possibility of a LOT of people getting dragged into the "you're done in government, go home" that will be resulting.
--

"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor

[Matrix Dragon]

Can I just say, I have to applaud what the Washington Post and NYT just did. They waited for Air Force One to take off, then both dropped bombshells about this mess, trapping Trump and co right next to reporters for fourteen hours. That's freaking magnificent.

[ordnance11]

JFerio wrote:

---

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

This is why it'd be such a huge deal if the Republicans hold off on impeachment until midterms.  Because if both the House and the Senate swing to the Democrats, then it's game over for the Republicans - literally the worst possible outcome for them.  Because if that happens, a new President Pro Tempore and Speaker of the House must be selected... and whoever those are...  well, once the Democrats go full on for impeachment (and I'm pretty sure that they'll go after both Trump and Pence, because while Pence might be competent, he still leaves much to be desired)... guess who your new POTUS and VPOTUS are gonna be?

I bet some of them are hoping they can get the perfect timing; let Trump be their distraction for the public attention for a little bit longer, then get impeachment going just late enough that they can replace him before the midterms play out, but only just before so that they get maximum distraction value and can (try to) account for the possibility of a LOT of people getting dragged into the "you're done in government, go home" that will be resulting.

To be fair..the GOP is caught in a bind. Don't denounce Trump, the voters in purple districts will see them as enablers. Denounce Trump and the "base" will call them traitors. Which is why they've all gone Run Silent, Run Deep. The Deluge is here and in 2018, the flood.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Black Aeronaut]

ordnance11 wrote:

---

JFerio wrote:

---

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

This is why it'd be such a huge deal if the Republicans hold off on impeachment until midterms.  Because if both the House and the Senate swing to the Democrats, then it's game over for the Republicans - literally the worst possible outcome for them.  Because if that happens, a new President Pro Tempore and Speaker of the House must be selected... and whoever those are...  well, once the Democrats go full on for impeachment (and I'm pretty sure that they'll go after both Trump and Pence, because while Pence might be competent, he still leaves much to be desired)... guess who your new POTUS and VPOTUS are gonna be?

I bet some of them are hoping they can get the perfect timing; let Trump be their distraction for the public attention for a little bit longer, then get impeachment going just late enough that they can replace him before the midterms play out, but only just before so that they get maximum distraction value and can (try to) account for the possibility of a LOT of people getting dragged into the "you're done in government, go home" that will be resulting.

To be fair..the GOP is caught in a bind. Don't denounce Trump, the voters in purple districts will see them as enablers. Denounce Trump and the "base" will call them traitors. Which is why they've all gone Run Silent, Run Deep. The Deluge is here and in 2018, the flood.

What's more is that the Democrats have already shown that, even though they're a minority in both the House and Senate for the moment, they can still play the dirty ballgame the Teaparty Republicans used against them during Obama's tenure.  Expect to see a lot of foot dragging from the Democrats - in proportion to how close we get to the mid-terms.  If the Republicans know what's good for them they'll drop Trump and Pence ASAP.  If not... well, the Democrats are gonna hold them done over the coals.
Hopefully the Republicans (or at least their constituents) will have learned their lesson - most of us all want the same things, but we have to work together to get there.

[ordnance11]

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

ordnance11 wrote:

---

JFerio wrote:

---

I bet some of them are hoping they can get the perfect timing; let Trump be their distraction for the public attention for a little bit longer, then get impeachment going just late enough that they can replace him before the midterms play out, but only just before so that they get maximum distraction value and can (try to) account for the possibility of a LOT of people getting dragged into the "you're done in government, go home" that will be resulting.

To be fair..the GOP is caught in a bind. Don't denounce Trump, the voters in purple districts will see them as enablers. Denounce Trump and the "base" will call them traitors. Which is why they've all gone Run Silent, Run Deep. The Deluge is here and in 2018, the flood.

What's more is that the Democrats have already shown that, even though they're a minority in both the House and Senate for the moment, they can still play the dirty ballgame the Teaparty Republicans used against them during Obama's tenure.  Expect to see a lot of foot dragging from the Democrats - in proportion to how close we get to the mid-terms.  If the Republicans know what's good for them they'll drop Trump and Pence ASAP.  If not... well, the Democrats are gonna hold them done over the coals.
Hopefully the Republicans (or at least their constituents) will have learned their lesson - most of us all want the same things, but we have to work together to get there.

I wouldn't bet on them getting an attack of sanity. Two decades of the echo chamber will have them going on "alternate" facts and doubling down. Watch them go surly.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Labster]

ordnance11 wrote:

---

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

ordnance11 wrote:

---

To be fair..the GOP is caught in a bind. Don't denounce Trump, the voters in purple districts will see them as enablers. Denounce Trump and the "base" will call them traitors. Which is why they've all gone Run Silent, Run Deep. The Deluge is here and in 2018, the flood.

What's more is that the Democrats have already shown that, even though they're a minority in both the House and Senate for the moment, they can still play the dirty ballgame the Teaparty Republicans used against them during Obama's tenure.  Expect to see a lot of foot dragging from the Democrats - in proportion to how close we get to the mid-terms.  If the Republicans know what's good for them they'll drop Trump and Pence ASAP.  If not... well, the Democrats are gonna hold them done over the coals.
Hopefully the Republicans (or at least their constituents) will have learned their lesson - most of us all want the same things, but we have to work together to get there.

I wouldn't bet on them getting an attack of sanity. Two decades of the echo chamber will have them going on "alternate" facts and doubling down. Watch them go surly.

It's times like these when I remember John Boehner merrily singing "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" when he announced his resignation as Speaker of the House.  He's smarter than I ever gave him credit for.  And a good singer, too!
-- ∇×V