Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-06-2006, 08:49 PM
Technically, it can't be all electrical activity that fails at Hogwarts as Brains and nervous systems in humans run on such things. So if it blanketed/scrambled all of the electrical activity into oblivion it would make anyone who entered the grounds pass out, have a seizure, or die. That means there must by some kind of exception to this field letting people live and function there.
Mr. Norris is as far as I can tell a normal cat. No enchantments or enhanced bit to it. (I could be wrong here, but I'm going with it for simplicity and lack of evidence otherwise.) So its not being inately magical that provides the protection verse neural dysfunction.
Unless I'm missing something the flying car wasn't exactly ripped from the future here and is the time frame is the early '90s... meaning that that car (disagree if you have the model and can prove otherwise) has rather little in the way of critical electronics. The starter and alternator and battery yes... but the battery like the one in Harry's watch should only be suspended from use until leaving the field. Most of the fancy computerized stuff wouldn't be around outside the really expensive models.
So while the headlights, radio, AC, and like secondary systems could go nuts... driving the vehicle shouldn't do more than turn off the engine or make it rev and the like. Also the fact it was propelled by enchantment and flying at the time, means that it wasn't only the electronics under attack.
Later the car shows signs of intelligence and even loyalty when it rescues the trio from the giant spiders. I vaguely remember its 'screaming' when it hit the field. Screaming means pain or metal fatigue.
So the car counts as 'alive' or independently functional... and it doesn't flicker anymore. So either all electronics are fried and it running on pure enchantment or it has control over those systems.
So if we take enchantment as a weak AI that keeps the magic doing what it was designed to do... then the reason the car stopped being tormented by the interference effect is that it was 'alive' enough to not be affected by the interference effect. Not totally unaffected and it seems to want to stay away from the grounds Hogwarts proper, and runs around in the forest. Perhaps getting too close to Hogwarts is like one of those electronic fences that keeps your dog on your lawn. Debatably, it stays in the forest, because it needs a level magic to remain continuos.
Anyway, so if blowing off the no electronics works here effect is a matter of the device having enough willpower, then devices like pacemakers (implanted in flesh) would continue to work. Meaning a T-100 terminator would only work better inside Hogwarts after the initial 'brain on fire' effect.
Continuing with this theory, if a laptop was active and on when entering Hogwarts it may become more intelligent, at least as far as performing its normal duties go, the car took owners where they wanted to go. If it was off it would never turn on, the interference effect suspending its functions.
Also, if the watch stops working for months and then works perfectly fine again... perhaps its my lack of heavy electronics background, but wouldn't all the interference drain the battery with random discharges? I know the battery will work for months or year normally... but unless its magically recharge though suspended, why does the battery still have power?
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-06-2006, 10:16 PM
While electricty can stimulate them, nerves actually work on a chemical basis, not electrical, according to more recent research - though how that works with an electroencephalogram Ihaven't the foggiest. As for the rest... If it's specifically stated that the watch stopped because the battery stopped providing powr, then that pretty much has to be a specifically designed effect to kill electrical devices, becasue a battery also works on a chemical basis, trading electrons around between the poles and electrolyte.
Of course, the real explanation is that the autoress says electronics don't work at Hogwarts, so anyone wanting to write otherwise in a fanfic can use whatever explanation they want, right down to an aiuthors note saying they're going to ignore it because they feel like having electronics in their story.
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-07-2006, 12:55 AM
Also note the following about EMP:
While the claims that EMPs are 'non-lethal' is false, they are much less likely to harm or even adversely affect biologicals than electronics. An EMP that turns J.Average.IC into useless silicon would just tickle a human. OTOH, those huge EMP bombs they show on TV would fry any human near ground zero.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-22-2006, 10:37 AM
Quote: After all, if magic and tech are completely incompatible, then it sorta rules out giving Harry a .50DE and a sniper rail gun, now doesn't it?
Oh, great. Now I've got Harry, with a hip flask in one hand, in my head saying to Voldemort, "Here's a trick Dumbledore showed me when you weren't around." (Produces Luger, shoots him through the heart).
JK Rowling meets Ralph Bakshi, anyone?
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-22-2006, 10:40 AM
Duane, check out the end of Jeconais' White Knight, Grey Queen, which as it happens I like quite a bit and recommend highly.
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-25-2006, 09:15 AM
Quote: JK Rowling meets Ralph Bakshi, anyone?
Definitely has possibilities. Or why not JK Rowling meets Jay Ward, as in:
"Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat." Produces pistol, blows Moldywart away. "Must've brought the wrong hat."DHBirr
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
01-25-2006, 09:54 AM
Quote: After all, if magic and tech are completely incompatible, then it sorta rules out giving Harry a .50DE and a sniper rail gun, now doesn't it?
Nah, if chemical reactions were being altered/wonky then people would REALLY be messed up.
ESPECIALLY oxidization reactions or the effects of gass-pressure.
You could still probably get a deagle working with some kind of reverse-accio spell.
Beside, even if "micro" scale phenomenon are somewhat iffy, "macro" level stuff like friction and mechanical advantage are def. still in.
Kind of makes me wonder. Technomancy aside, what could a trained *engineer* do with magic in his arsenal.
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Engineer? More like target practice.
01-25-2006, 11:28 AM
Sadly, if the setting stays true to form, he'd be obliviated into last Thursday by Fudge's lackeys....
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them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-16-2006, 01:09 PM
Quote: Duane, check out the end of Jeconais' White Knight, Grey Queen, which as it happens I like quite a bit and recommend highly.
Okay, all I can say is...wow. Just Wow. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-16-2006, 05:00 PM
You're very welcome. As a side note, I'm reading that to Peggy right now.
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-16-2006, 08:14 PM
For another take on scientific magic, read String Theory by Chris Dee.
Here is a summarizing quote:
Quote: Jason Blood was aghast at what he was hearing:
All matter and energy made up these vibrating filaments called Strings; Fine.
The way they vibrated determined what it was they made up; Sure why not.
The way they vibrated determined what cosmic laws applied and then something about gravity and electromagnetism that Jason didnt quite follow but Bruce seemed terribly excited about. And then, THEN this outlandish suggestion that magick might be nothing more than a way of temporarily altering the Strings movement so that different cosmic laws applied?
It frames the so-called supernatural in science Leiverman was saying.
Jason looked at Bruce and could sense what the premise really meant to him: And gets this grossly unacceptable thing called magic into a realm where it could be dealt with.
You think you can control the magickal forces? he asked, white astonishment blotting out the usual sarcasm in his voice.
No, Bruce said simply, I think its already controlled. You all are. Youre operating in exactly the same universe as the rest of us; you just dont know it yet. The same rules the same laws apply. Youre different only in that through magic youve figured out how to change venue, but there are still laws in place, judges and punishments if theyre broken. Thats why theres always a price.
So: Magic as an alteration to local quantum-level patterns that in turn alters physical laws. With this, it should be possible to do anything, though there are probably power limitation when trying to make big changes or affect large areas. On the other hand, with great power not only comes great responsibility, but the ability to f*** yourself up really badly if you do it wrong.
Changes to local reality and physical law certainly have the potential to disrupt devices that rely on physical laws for their operation. On the other hand, as has been pointed out, humans and their biological functions also rely on physical law. However, that may be why they all use wands, specific gestures, and incantations. The magical-creature-based core of the wand may not be there for power, but to provide a template so that the reality alterations do not cross over into a range where organic life would not be sustained. This could explain why magical mishaps seem to be semi humorous more often than they are life threatening.
On the other hand, that might be the basis for the Avada Kedavra. A surge of magic without the standard safely limits alters reality for the subject to the point that all biological functions ceace. This might be why it is so dificult to defend against, because it is random in nature and also disrupts whatever you try to use to defend against it.
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-17-2006, 03:05 PM
Looks more like a load of scientists making up some bizarre techobabble theory on how reality in a string instrament and mages are all its bards. All to avoid excepting magic, by believing in unprovable theories involving things they can't see altering reality... to avoid believing actual forces they can prove exist.
I mean seriously, E-mail Dr. Strange and ask him how he meshes the two fields. Give Doctor Sinister a few interns to mutate in exchange for explaining how he meshes the two. There are a few people in the Marvalverse or DCland or whatever... who already know how the two work together.
I mean has Banner actually managed to figure out that his own transformation ignore the law of conservation of matter yet?
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-17-2006, 03:27 PM
"by believing in unprovable theories"
There is the rub. Unprovable theories are not science.
The technobabble is probably only the first step. The next step is probably to start collecting data to see if this theory holds water. The step after that is designing a series of experiments to *test* the theory.
Alas, since this is merely a fanfic the rest will presumably happen off-screen.
As any scientist will tell you, theories are the *easy* part.
The real science takes place after.
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Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-17-2006, 04:44 PM
Actually, in proper scientific method, theories are the hard part -- hypotheses are easy. Theories are what you have when you have almost but not quite enough evidence to be 100% certain.
-- Bob
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For Jor-El so loved the Earth, he sent his only begotten son...
Re: The nature of Technomancy in Harry Potter
02-17-2006, 10:28 PM
Quote: On the other hand, that might be the basis for the Avada Kedavra. A surge of magic without the standard safely limits alters reality for the subject to the point that all biological functions ceace. This might be why it is so dificult to defend against, because it is random in nature and also disrupts whatever you try to use to defend against it.
No, that spell 'kills' golems also... The thing is that spell requires a certain level of HATE to function. Its so powerful, because it requires raw emotion to be put into it. Basically, its a life force/ki component that makes it physically draining as well as mentally draining, as many complicated spells are.
Most spells aren't more than negligiblely draining if at all... or else first year is impossible... I mean they cast spells in multiple classes for hours each day. Sometimes dozens of times in the same class.
The defense issue is because its a powerful spell... that is illegal to cast. I can't imagine the MoM allowing guys to stand around casting a forbidden spell in order to test defense spells against it. Even in controlled conditions, with the spells on dummies.
And Bob... GOOD scientists wait till they are 80% or more certain before calling it a theory. There was a study that concluded that 70% or more of studies were blatant BS and based on bad science (method wise and logic wise). Of course the study itself could be wrong.
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