Dead Bang random thought

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

I seriously doubt that hair- and eye-color genetics in the Sailor Moon animated world (and most other anime, come to that) work the same way they do in ours.
Not to mention the unpleasant fact that if they were born looking like that in real-world Japan, the school system would have forced them to dye their hair black. No joke.

--Sam

"HEDGE!"

[Dragonflight]

Well, Crystal Tokyo is magically driven by that point, but the process of getting there would have still incorporated a lot of "in-between"
technologies. Japan might have become the perfect millenium for its inhabitants, but a quick look at our world would show that there would be resistance in
theirs to the change sweeping the planet. So while Usagi's phenomenon is sweeping the planet, you'd see a lot of comparable technology being developed
and applied, as a way of easing the other societies in without causing too much culture shock. Even if Usagi never thought of the cultural implications of what
she was doing, odds are Luna would have, and her advice would be to take it slow.

So it's a fair bet Makoto's worked with power lifter-based devices in the past. Also, as a living arcwelder, she should be a natural for construction
jobs. Although I need to figure out how she could use her power without drawing attention to herself in doing so... Hmm...
---
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

[robkelk]

Although I need to figure out how she could use her power without drawing attention to herself in doing so... Hmm...

Well, she won't always be in view of other people... Besides, Rei used her fire powers without shouting an invocation at least once during the movies, so I suspect Makoto's picked up that trick sometime in the last (mumble-mumble) decades. She doesn't need to call attention to herself when she uses her electical powers.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

Rob is correct, assuming that "Dead Bang"!Makoto = "GGG"!Makoto, which is looking more and more to be the case. Makoto from "GGG" is going to have a lot of tricks up her sleeve, given that she's had (mumble-mumble) centuries to perfect her control over her powers after being given a very thorough (and very superhero-style-based) training in their use by Doug...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Dragonflight]

Oh, I've come up with a few ideas about the whole "calling out attack names" thing I'll explore in Chapter seven. What I'm wondering
is if there's any incidence in the anime or GGG where Makoto uses electrical power without having to transform? Is part of her power locked away without a
prerequisite transformation, or can she sneak a little power in unobtrusively on occasion. I'm assuming that after (mumble-mumble) centuries, if it's
possible, she could do it. But I don't want to state she can or can't if the continuity says otherwise.
---
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

[Epsilon]

While Makoto never uses her powers outside of transformed state Rei uses her priestess style powers outside of her transformation a few times.

Makoto also displays superhuman strength in her human form a few times (or at least, strength severely disproportinate to her bodymass).

-------------------------

Epsilon

[Bob Schroeck]

An interesting question, Ian, is if there's any difference any more between her transformed and untransformed states...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Necratoid]

If it helps, remember that at least one of her attacks required her absorbing lighting through her tiara. Also, even if she had the powers of a senshi when
not transformed, she isn't going to be as powerful... the uniform adds to and amplifies her powers or it wouldn't change with every power upgrade...
also she doesn't have the armor capabilities of the uniform.

On a side note I'm personally convinced that the miniskirts aren't actually skirts so much as strangely frilly belts that are wore with their leotards.

[Bob Schroeck]

In the series, yes, Necratoid. But (mumble-mumble) centuries later, during Crystal Tokyo? As far as I'm concerned there's likely to be a convergence of
forms over such a span of time.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[s3yang]

Well, I think that they're at least still wearing their uniforms in crystal tokyo, pretty sure they're depicted as doing so somewhere in the anime.
You'd think that if they _had_ integrated their forms they'd ditch the silly dress post-haste. Still, I've always liked the fan explanation that
the uniforms are the way they are for the express purpose of embarrassing the user so much that they try to integrate it's power as fast as humanely
possible. It's obviously not actually the case, but that particular answer amuses me to no end.

[robkelk]

... they'd ditch the silly dress post-haste.

"Silly? Silly? That is the uniform of the Honor Guard of the Silver Millenium, and it is decidedly not 'silly'. Embarassing, maybe. Overly-revealing, definitely. But not 'silly'. Our ancestors wouldn't design anything that was 'silly'."

I suspect that you'd get a reply something along those lines if you dared tell any of the Senshi that her leotard-and-short-skirt combination was silly...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[s3yang]

Heh, who knows?, maybe they're magical versions of the Bonta-kun suit. Except instead of the voice changer being stuck, it's the uniform appearance due
to a malfunction in the optic camouflage function.

Hmmm.... that's a spam fic waiting to happen I think.

Anywho, where can I find this... 'Girls, Girls, Girls' stuff that I hear Bob talking about? Found the dead-bang stuff, but not not that.

[robkelk]

Anywho, where can I find this... 'Girls, Girls, Girls' stuff that I hear Bob talking about? Found the dead-bang stuff, but not not that.

Bob hasn't written any of it yet.

I've got about 3/5ths of a G^3 story done over on the Fenspace forum, though. (What's been published of it is collected at http://fnord.sandwich.net/fenwiki/doku. ... ctic_girls .)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[s3yang]

Cool beans, thanks!

[Bob Schroeck]

s3yang -- To more fully answer your question, "GGG" is a planned story sequence where most (but not all) of the various young ladies Doug has
encountered on his journeys come chasing after him -- starting with a Herald who wants a friendly and powerful mage of her acquaintance to come back to her
home country and help out in a time of war, and ending up with about a dozen girls and women knocking on the front door to the Warriors' Mansion and asking
if Doug can come out and play.

Which reminds me... I was trying to remember this while writing a private email to Ian a few days back, and it took almost 48 hours for my memory to kick back
in. While updating the website, I modified Hiroe's epilogue in DW2 to support "Dead Bang" and to better support "GGG". The changes are
minor and possibly hard to notice, but I thought I'd mention them just in case anyone's curious.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Necratoid]

They go to the future in the Black Moon arc. Yes, they are as far as I recall wearing their uniforms... however they are also only used as batteries for a
force field on the castle which is alll they can do. There isn't any visible population (though they could be off screen in shelters (possibly under the
castle) or something rather than dead), and they are clearly losing this battle... which is why they have to call in their past selves in order to take down
the enemy. To be frank they aren't exactly shown to be shining paragons of competence... they are being overrun by a splinter faction of their own once
citizens.

By the time we get to see it, Crystal Tokyo is overrun, though shiny, and they have all but lost a basically civil war. 3 Senshi are completely AWOL and they
are in a darkest hour scenario. So seeing as the lot of them have all of one offspring (apparently less than a decade old) and all their shown citizzens are
actively trying to kill them... I often wonder why people think it would be such a great place. Lets not go into the theory that their are less than 20 people
left on Earth at that point theories.

Reguardless of if the Senshi can activate their powers out of uniform or not after X centuries, the uniforms will enhance them regardless. That is the point
of them. Mars' power shown out of uniform are things she was trained in beforehand. Mercury can use the computer outside of uniform, but its equipment.
Saturn shows healing powers outside of uniform... but she could have learned those as a result of Mistress 9 possessing her. Mistress 9 was actually training
her body to use magic effectively. Neptune has equipment powers out of uniform. Jupiter's super strength burst could have to do with her martial arts
training.

Even taking into account they've had X number of centuries to train they could have learned powers the normal research and practice way anyway. Yes, they
have elemental affinities and it would be stupid not to exploit that for training... but saying they can use non equipment based powers outside of uniform is
unsubstantiated. So I don't understand why she would even need to be able to use Senshi powers outside of combat if she didn't have to. Also consider
that Crystal Tokyo is suppose to be a magical kingdom and it would be rather difficult to pull that off with on a handful of random magic users... having a
magic school only makes sense.

[Epsilon]

The uniforms are clearly not needed for the Senshi's powers because Usagi proves the opposite. Once I had some time to think about it I remembered the
end of Sailor Moon S. It's pretty clear that Usagi has all the power of the Holy Grail even without the actual Holy Grail.

Transforming seems to be an unconscious reaction to their powers being unrestrained, but the powers are always inside of them at all times. In fact, there is
more evidence that their human forms are the "unnatural" forms, the "disguises" they wear than the other way around.

---------------------

Epsilon

[Necratoid]

I'd have an easier time believing that if Sailor Moon actually existed. What I mean is there is NO Sailor Moon. What there is is Princess Serenity
wearing Sailor Fuku, under the guise of a nonexistent Sailor Senshi. 'Sailor Moon' 's power comes not from a planetary link, like a real Sailor
Senshi, but from a collection of artifacts of great power and the power of the Moon Princess. During the end game Usagi tends to be cast aside and The Moon
Princess Serenity takes over and starts tossing around the reality altering spells.

Its also debatable if Usagi is actually a disguise herself... at least in origin. Usagi clearly has a sense of self and influences the Moon Priness, but I
think she was made as cover identity to help the Moon Princess. Note no other Senshi has a alternate personallity that suddenly shines through, barring Saturn
who is not only powered by the planet Saturn, but also her link to the force known as the Silence and only when using the Silence does that personality shine
through. So basically that could also mean that Usagi is just the current avatar of the Moon Princess. Kind of a Tsunami/Sasami relationship their without
much chatting.

If the best you can do is tell me about spiffy powers of someone who is only cosplaying a Sailor Senshi, try again.

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

I think it's more like Usagi is a caricature of a "normal" girl, based on Princess Serenity's fervent wish to be one. She subconsciously
underachieves at nearly everything because she doesn't want to be all princessy.

--Sam

"Well that guy's nekkid."

[Bob Schroeck]

And if you go to Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon, well, I have a theory that even Princess Serenity is a fake -- the "real" Sailor Moon is nothing more than a planet-killer weapon in humanoid form, that "Terminator Moon" who we see at the end of the series. To make it easier to control or interface with the weapon, it was given a shell personality -- "Princess Serenity".
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Epsilon]

While your theory is interesting its not really supported in canon.

Usagi is a Sailor Senshi for the same reason that Makoto is a Sailor Senshi. That is they both have True Star Seeds. It's basically a binary condition. If
you have a True Star Seed then you are a Sailor Senshi. If you do not, then you are not. The Senshi only have a "planetary link" in that they have
the Star Seed associated with each planet. Though you are correct in that she is not really "Sailor Moon", but then Sailor Venus is not really
"Sailor Venus", its just a name. They could easily call themselves other things and manifest their powers in different ways, it doesn't stop them
from being Sailor Senshi in the end.

Sailor Moon has a True Star Seed (the Ginzuishou) thus she is a Sailor Senshi. It's possible her Star Seed is not related to the moon specifically (in
fact, in the manga she is explicitly the Sailor Senshi of the entire cosmos!) so it may be related to the sun or just the entire star system of Sol in general.
The Sailor Starlights, have a similar arrangement with the Three Lights representing one planet each with Princess Kakkyu being the Senshi of either their sun
or their entire star system.

The Moon Princess is just a fancy way of saying "absurdly powerful Sailor Senshi compared to the others".

--------------------

Epsilon

Despite what fanon would have you think Star Seed plus male does not equal genderbender fun. Star Seed plus male equals Tuxedo Mask, who is
explicitly noted as the Senshi of Earth in the manga and anime.

[s3yang]

The above two posts, Bob's 'Terminator Moon', and Epsilon's mention in a roundabout way of Sailor Cosmos, brings the thought of:

Sailor KOS-MOS.

PS. This thread is now seriously off track.

PPS. After going back a page and reading, Girls Girls Girls sounds like a truly amusing path to hilarity. I wonder how long it'll take them to realize that
their little ground probably has enough collective ability to solve all the problems they wanted Doug to help them with by the time they get to him.

[Bob Schroeck]

Epsilon, I was referring only to PGSM, not the anime. The divergence between the two is profound.

s3yang, I've seen a Sailor KOS-MOS somewhere, but I can't remember where. And as for your observation about "GGG", well... Seriously, Delandra didn't know what she was starting. She thought Warriors World was just on the other side of a simple gate, all she'd do is duck through, get Doug and maybe a couple of his friends, and be back by dinner. Instead she found herself in Megatokyo... and eventually realized that, like Doug, she has to go through to get back.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Epsilon]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Epsilon, I was referring only to PGSM, not the anime. The divergence between the two is profound.

Sorry, I was refering to Necratoid not you. PGSM is a profoundly different universe than the anime.

------------------

Epsilon

[Disruptor]

I finally got around to reading this. I'm going to ignore the Sailor Moon debate on is Usagi real or not.

I'm going to use an obscure Magical Girl series:

Makeruna! Makendo.

When the Makendo girls are transformed, they are tough. Very tough.

They take far less damage from attacks than normal when they are transformed.(PC-FX game Makeruna! Makendo Z had that the girls get forcefuly transformed back
into human guise and if you didn't quickly transform them back your characters would die from the incomming attacks) Since one of their opponets is
Garrekky, they can take several direct hits from air to surface missiles or getting stepped on by a fifty foot robot.

Lisa's transformed state would make her a bit harder to hurt. I'm not sure if Lisa has the Sailor Senshi ability of flying through space with angel
wings coming from her back.

All the transformation does is armor the girl up and increase their natural abilites somewhat. Sort of like putting a cestus on. Sure a normal punch would
hurt, but a punch with a cestus is going to hurt even more.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor