MSLN/EH: Hazardous Lyrics

[classicdrogn]

As you can see, this is barely a single scene, plus rough outlines for the whole. Mainly, it's a desperate cry for help from you'uns as was kickin' ideas 'round in Crossovers That MUST Be. For one thing, I haven't seen Nanoha past the first few episodes of A's, though I have up through the end of StrikerS waiting for me to get around to it.

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I'm Takamachi Nanoha. I was supposed to be an ordinary third grader, etc.

(Nanoha intro here)

The door to a world of magnificent adventure is opening now.

HAZARDOUS LYRICS

The First Verse

by dialNforNinja

from ideas & suggestions collected on the Drunkard's Walk Message Board

Nanoha let herself droop a little with fatigue as the latest Jewel Seed was sealed, for once without making a lot of trouble. That had been especially unexpected, if welcome, after the news the day before had featured stories of the mysterous collapse in the basement of the high school, but for all it seemed like it the past few days not every problem in the city was relaed to the secret duty she'd taken up on behalf of Yuuno. Letting out a puff of breath, she lowered Raging Heart as the intelligent staff reverted from Sealing Mode, and the pale tan ferret scampered up to her shoulder. Before Yuuno could say anything, however, there was a distinctly odd sensation, like the feeling of a spiderweb sliding across the skin but in the nebulous magical sense she'd developed since becoming a mage.

"Ah! What was that?" she squeaked, surprised.

"It's a magical barrier," Yuuno answered, his own magical ability warping his mouth to allow human speech. He sat up straighter on her shoulder and explained. "It's a sort of area of shifted time, usually ised to allow magical battles without causing lots of damage to the surroundings, since physical objects without magic return to the state they were in before when it's released. Well, that's the basics anyway - they're kind of my specialty, but this one feels a little unusual."

"I see... Should we check it out?" Firming her stance, the young girl gripped Raging Heart more tightly. It might be nice to meet another mage, she thought. Maybe she could get a little tutoring with combat magic, since Yuuno said he'd taught her what little he knew about that already, or even some help sealing Jewel Seeds before they became troublesome. Of course, it was possible that other magi would be troublesome themselves, but it was always better to keep a positive attitude in Nanoha's opinion.

"I think that would be a good idea," Yuuno replied. "It seemed to come from inside the school building, or maybe under it. There aren't supposed to be strong magic users on this world, though, according to the surveys. Be careful, okay? Especially since it's an unknown type of barrier."

N sees M enter the building ahead of her, arrives just in time to see Ifurita glow as she does the dimensional shift

The First Verse: Ball of Confusion

Nanoha lands in the shrine from OVA2 and befriends Ifurita II in her traditional fashion. Her traveler-power is an even faster learning curve, so she can mimic observed spells as well as a demon-god. (She could make up new spells on the spot based on intent and whatever words came to mind in canon - Yuuno never taught her how to seal jewel seeds, just told her to concentrate on the idea and 'say the words that appear in her heart.' Raging Heart's Shooting Mode and the long-range sealing and attack magic using it were spontaneous modifications as well.) Yuuno gains the ability to read (and understand regardless of language, and perfectly recall) books (and similar records, as long as someone somewhere somewhen was meant to understand it with natural senses) with a moment's touch, which tickles his scholar's heart something fierce.

The Second Verse: Beautiful Girl

Nanoha leaves the shrine, as the old dude has thoroughly studied the library there and there's nothing relevant to getting her back home to finish collecting the Jewel Seeds, despite Yuuno's scholarly objections. Back home, her parents and siblings flip out when she vanishes, since odd things have been happening lately and they've noticed some things that make them suspect she's somehow involved with their mad leet ninja skills. This includes tracing her to the high school (strange lights were seen flashing from there that evening) and finding Ifurita as she staggers out of the building.

The Third Verse: Turn the Sky

Flying over the Desert of Bleached White Bones, Raging Heart detects amgic being used when the Priestesses blast the intruders on their vacation. Nanoha meets up with the main EH cast, but keeps her full ability secret for the moment. With the coach missing for one eam and the coache's daughter for the other, the soccer game is cancelled; Fate nabs the jewel seed lying in the field later that day. Ifurita is too low on energy to walk any more at all, and can only tell the Takamachi family that everything has happened according to fate before losing consciousness.

The Fourth Verse: My Pledge of Allegiance #1 (The Sealed Fate)

Ifurita I is awakened, mostly according to canon. Fate has scooped up the remaining 16 Jewel Seeds without opposition, so Precia has enough power for the whole Garden to make the transit, as well as dimensional buffering spells to make the trip safer, rather than the rough ride and widespread collateral damage, not that she cares about that) of the 'tear a hole in spacetime, jump into the gap between dimensions' plan. The TSAB detect the transit, but aren't in position to do anything about it and have nowhere near the neccessary power to follow. Precia does the 'worthless doll' speach since she's one step (she thinks) from the finish line, but since Fate did at least manage to collect the Jewel Seeds she's sealed in a stasis tube like Alicia in case some other menial task comes up. Arf is kicked off the ship when she tries to protest, and is too injured by the landing to do more than drag herself into a nearby hole and curl up to heal. Alicia's power is She's Not Dead, She's Resting. (Possibly with astral projection, when she's had a while to gain energy.) Precia's is self-healing, that takes care of the Cough of Death. Fate gains the ability to heal others with a touch, though she can't do herself and so doesn't find out for a while. Too bad Precia wouldn't think of letting her lay hands on Alicia...

The Fifth Verse: Thunderstruck

Mainly a 3-way fight sequence between Ifurita, Fate (decanted and told to make the false life she was given meaningful by using it to buy time) & Nanoha. Politically, Roshtaria bluffs that she is also a demon-god, fighting on their side, but since she was only partly successful and Precia raided the Royal Academy while the fight was in progress (during which the Garden hung low over the city, causing panic even though it did nothing) there's still pressure to unseal the Eye of God. Fate, in a suicidal depression thanks to her "mother's" decision to throw her away, intends to fight to the death, and nearly succeeds (in dying, that is. Her reflexes & skills are too off due to mental issues to take on two tough enemies at once.)

The Sixth Verse: Light of Day

Nanoha befriends Fate, while she recovers. Arf hears about the blonde lightning-user who was captured aafter fighting two demon-gods in Roshtaria and makes her way there after waking up, still badly injured until she sneaks into Fate's cell and gets healed. Discovering that she can restore life with her hands helps bring Fate out of her funk, sicne it means she has some innate worth no matter what her "mother" said. Precia flips, having discovered that she's most likely the most knowlegable person about the ancient civilization on the face of El-Hazard, and there's definitely not the kind of ultimate ancient magic lying around she was hoping for. After wrecking her throneroom and collapsing crying against Alicia's stasis tube, she swears to scour every inch of El-Hazard until she finds the magic or relic device she needs.

The Seventh Verse: Back in the Moment

Befriending Ifurita I, Part Two - possibly calling in Ifurita II to help, since the Phantom Tribe, Bugrom, and an uncontrolled Eye of God threaten the the shrine as well? Manga-style Phantom Tribe Ifuritas? (Jinnaestica & the male) Precia appears briefly and fights as well, she wants blood samples and aura scans from the Princesses in case they're needed to unlock any more ancient relics (she can always clone them if living bodies are needed.) It's a Thirty Demon God Pile-Up! Makoto's Make Freinds And Influence Mecha power gets a work-out, but if Phantom Tribe demon gods are involved they probably escape to appear in a later arc.

Coda: Ordinary World

Collecting Ifurita (a few weeks later; even with the buffers dimensoinal transit is impossible to Nanoha's Earth until then) and dealing with Nanoha's family, including Uncle Takahata called in from his teaching job since it looked like magic was involved. He may or may not have managed to feed Ifurita a bit of mana to get her semi-functional despite the lack of power key staff, consulting with Eva and whatsername the time traveller (Chao? Chachamaru's other 'parent') due to the (admittedly superficial) similarity to Chachamaru is an option. Somehow having her form a provisional pactio with Negi is not out of the question, though in the long term her lips are entirely Makoto's. Negi, being a kid, can get away with it, though. (or if all else fails Eva, I suppose; I'm sure Negi would be happy to have her moved from his circle of vult- sharks- girlf- ACCQUAINTANCES to Makoto's. Negima isn't meant to be a major crossover element, though, just a means to get a bit of mana into Ifurita and facilitate a "...so that's how it is," off-camera plot summary to the Takamachi family so they have outside verification when their nine year old daughter vanishes for a few months and comes back twelve, and so the seriously drained Demon-God doesn't die of energy depletion before the dimensional turbulence has settled down enough for Makoto to bring her staff. (Maybe shed just shut down, but if so why bother sticking her in a stasis chamber on Forbidden Island?)

Hazardous Lyrics II: Das Omen

Dealing with Die Wolkenritter/continuing the Nanoha story with her and Fate suddenly a year or two older, (rather than about four, since Yuuno's knowlege of Alhazared's Lost Logia let Makoto figure out the Eye of God much faster.) The TSAB is not apt to be amused by Rosharia using a dimensional weapon/transit system they only control in the loosest sense, not to mention the possibility that they begin dimensional exploration with it (and possibly Phantom Tribe members go through under invisibility or human illusions) or by Ifurita (let alone Ifurita II, and possibly Ifurita Jinnaestica and... the male one I still can't remember a designation for...) as a loose cannon of an intelligent, free willed Lost Logia able to do dimensional transits beyond the ability of their own ships. Examination of El Hazard magic, relatively weak in surviving examples but much faster than Mid style (Belkan is probably closer, which makes sense if the Tome of the Night Sky was an early attempt at an Ifurita) an not requiring rune circles/triangles/etc., or even (for low-level stuff) the use of a Device - the Priestesses can all use a bit of magic even without their elemental Lamps.

Thousands of years of study have led to some advancements, however - whatever enhanced toughness the Lamps may provide is nothing next to a modern Barrier Jacket, and the Belkan cartridge system was either lost or a more recent modification to the Wolkenritter, possibly at the same time the Tome became the Book of Darkness. On El-Hazard, the events of OVA 2 happen mainly off camera, but Kalia's pimp-cane is actually an Intelligent Device (whose programming was locked down until Makoto or the old dude got his hands on it) which turns out to work for Nanami. Originally used by the people who built her but left her trapped in stasis, it's not Kalia's at all per se. Makoto can use Ifurita's staff as one, too, since she doesn't really need it except to recharge even if it makes precision and top-level casting easier.

Possibly Precia has found out about Fate's healing ability, and now wants to retrieve her to use it on Alicia... even if thouroughly disenchanted with her putative mother by then, I think it's quite likely Fate would agree to try to help her 'sister,' though it's just as likely Precia is planning to magically dissect her to figure out the ability and apply it indirectly rather than letting Fate anyhere near The Preciousss. Goal here is to get Alicia up and at 'em and Precia way the bloody hell far away from any more kids to whip and electrocute, at the very least until she's been through some counseling. Alicia can inherit her Device, though I don't recall it ever speaking or being explicitly used. The how: weakly astrally-projecting Alicia saw Fate sent out to fight Ifurita and Nanoha, curious about this double who also called Precia 'Mother' she keeps checking in on her when she gathers enough strength to do so, up until the Earth group go back, or Precia moves the Garden beyond her range if this is sometime around EH OVA2 - she can't do it beyond the same region of the planet let alone interdimensionally, and without the recurring target bulds enough power to manifest a semi-visible form. When she appears before Precia Fate's healing abilities come out and Alicia suggests asker 'her sister' for help, not understanding exactly what Precia said and did to her, since the contact she observed was so brief and the only mother she knew was distant but kind when she remembered to be, and Fate never talked about it while Alicia was spying.

Somewhere in there: Saint's Cradle vs. Garden (Maybe Jinnai and Diva take it over after Precia gets tossed in the clink - it's got to have some offfense ability, even if it's just a ship-scale magic booster with all those lenses at the rim and the big 'eye' lens) vs. Eye of God? Maybe the Trigger Of Destruction and Asura thrown in too, so the TSAB can be on hand to haul Precia away - not having been on hand when Fate was acting under her control to gather evidence against the cloned girl, Fate is not included in the case except as a plaintiff & witness.

- CD

ETA: Gotta run, but I just hit stoptazmo.com and they do have a few chaptrers of the EH manga where the non-anime demon gods appear.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[robkelk]

One relatively-important suggestion, and one bit of trivia...

Coda: Ordinary World
Collecting Ifurita (a few weeks later; even with the buffers dimensoinal transit is impossible to Nanoha's Earth until then) and dealing with Nanoha's family, including Uncle Takahata called in from his teaching job since it looked like magic was involved. He may or may not have managed to feed Ifurita a bit of mana to get her semi-functional despite the lack of power key staff, consulting with Eva and whatsername the time traveller (Chao? Chachamaru's other 'parent') due to the (admittedly superficial) similarity to Chachamaru is an option. Somehow having her form a provisional pactio with Negi is not out of the question, though in the long term her lips are entirely Makoto's. Negi, being a kid, can get away with it, though. (or if all else fails Eva, I suppose; I'm sure Negi would be happy to have her moved from his circle of vult- sharks- girlf- ACCQUAINTANCES to Makoto's. Negima isn't meant to be a major crossover element, though, just a means to get a bit of mana into Ifurita and facilitate a "...so that's how it is," off-camera plot summary to the Takamachi family so they have outside verification when their nine year old daughter vanishes for a few months and comes back twelve, and so the seriously drained Demon-God doesn't die of energy depletion before the dimensional turbulence has settled down enough for Makoto to bring her staff. (Maybe shed just shut down, but if so why bother sticking her in a stasis chamber on Forbidden Island?)

There's no real point to introducing the Negima folks if they're just going to be a background point. Never introduce a crossover story that you don't need to introduce just to make use of one element of the crossover story - the readers will expect to see all of the other crossover story's elements take part in your story.

(If the whole point of your story is to have a mega-crossover, this doesn't apply... but that doesn't appear to be what your story is.)

As to how to recharge Ifurita on Earth, at this point you haven't yet introduced Lindy, Chrono, Amy, and the Asura. I expect that Chrono and Amy would have enough knowledge about magic to be able to figure out what needs to be done to keep Ifurita going, and Lindy definitely has enough magical power to spare some for Ifurita.

Hazardous Lyrics II: Das Omen
Dealing with Die Wolkenritter/continuing the Nanoha story with her and Fate suddenly a year or two older, (rather than about four, since Yuuno's knowlege of Alhazared's Lost Logia let Makoto figure out the Eye of God much faster.)

Two-and-three-quarter years, in canon El Hazard. (Specifically, 1,001 nights. Please tell me you get the reference.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ECSNorway]

I agree with Robkelk -- the TSAB crew is a much more suitable arrangement to get Ifurita's recharge taken care of. They're going to arrive on the scene anyway, and having them meet up with Nanoha's family and confirm part of Ifurita's story will be a help.

And as said, don't introduce a crossover unless you mean to make it a continuing part of the story, or it's just a throwaway offscreen reference. Unless you plan for the Negima elements to play a major role later in the story this is completely unnecessary.

Even if you do want them to turn up later, it's better to get the TSAB introduced since readers will be expecting them.

If you want to drop a hint foreshadowing a later Negima crossover element, have one of the 'back home at the Midori-ya' segments include the family getting a letter inviting Nanoha to attend Mahora Academy, or something like that... just a minor, low-key introduction of the element.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[deadpan29]

I think I remember the idea thread that spawned this.  One item I remember is that it was pointed out that the powers given to the dimensional travelers tend to be useful only in specific circumstances.  Communing with machines, immunity to illusions, super strength that only works when the chain smoker/heavy drinker flushes the toxins out of his system, etc.  Giving Nanoha an, "even faster learning curve," to pump up her already impressive capabilities may not be such a hot idea.  Something more frivolous, like the ability to talk to ferrets or other members of the weasel family, might be better.  "Best" would probably be something that become a key ability at one point, but only that once.
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No, I don't believe the world has gone mad.  In order for it to go mad it would need to have been sane at some point.

[classicdrogn]

Obviously, the outline above is a very rough fisrt approximmation with numerous continuity errors and spots where the logic doesn't align, more a brainstorm rainbarrel than anything else. Reviewing the two EH OVAs has pointed out some of these, and doubtless when I go over Nanoha again I'll notice some more - I have the second half of Garo to finish first before starting that, though. Anyway, here's some clarification.

Watching them again, OVA2 obviously follows much closer on OVA1 than I'd been thinking - maybe a month or two at most. This means that if OVA2 events are going to be on camera, it's got to be before the Earth paty can return home (by a long chalk) and it's all but impossible for the TSAB to be involved with the dimensional/temporal turbulence as stated. My guess is that the studio wanted to turn the OVAs into a thirteen episode TV series, by cutting the first and last (45min) eps of OVA1 into two-parters and adding the four eps of OVA2 to make up the difference. It sounds plausible at least.

The time differential between when Precia leaves for (a week or two after Ifurita sends them) and arrives in (between four and ten days depending on travel times and whether you take the episode titles of "the XXX night" literally) El-Hazard is part of the reason there's so much disturbance, where a normal dimensional transit time flows as usual but due to El-Hazard being in some kind of overworld or hyperspace causality is not neccesarily preserved (as the whole 10,000 year old Irufita thing makes blatantly obvious) and the universe is unhappy about it; travel becomes absolutely sealed until Precia leaves and for a while afterward, with the exact duration depending on how strong the attempted transit is (with the Eye of God and Ifurita being on the Pretty Damn end of the scale.)

Of course, the TSAB isn't likely to take a dimensional upheaval like Precia's trip or (especially, given their mandate over arms limitation treaties) the use of the Eye of God as a weapon lying down, so maybe they could find some way to pop a small ship like Asura down the rabbit hole in time to be around for the end of OVA2 and the Trigger of Destruction, because Garden vs. Asura vs. Trigger is a Scene I'd Love to See. The Saint's Cradle doesn't seem to be in the cards, sadly. Maybe they could repatriate the Phantom Tribe to a more hospitable homeworld?

I've used both El-Hazard and Alhazared without explaining the intended difference, basically El-Hazard is the modern residents while Alhazared is the ancient civilization - a minor language shift in the intervening time, largely for flavor. Since they haven't had voice recording since the ancient war there's only the written word to pin pronunciation down, and with the way civilization seems to have fallen and rebuilt, it's probable that the survivors were more occupied with survival than strict adherence to grammar and diction for quite a while.

The Negima minor cross would probably be somewhere around the Library Explorers/midternms arc; since it's a Sunday the morning after the EH travelers vanish there's no classes and Takahata could ask Negi to come with him as a favor for a little backup, since Nanohaville is in a rival Magic Organisation's territory, possibly even the same one making trouble on the field trip. I was thinking about some kind of throwaway line about the volleyball club wanting them to watch the game against the Momotsuki Junior Girls, but when Takahata mentions his niece having gone missing in suspicious circumstances they have more trouble getting away without any of the girls than persuading them to let the guys skip the game. (This would put them in continuity with Pani Poni Dash as well, nominally, but I don't know what part of the year the Momotsuki vs. Mahora poster appeared in PPD, and as noted it's a throwawy line so I'm not planning on any M-33 aliens or anything.)

On Nanami as a mage, if that was the case she'd probably not have been frozen by the barrier, like Makoto, Nanoha, and Yuuno. I was mainly opeerating on the idea that it would be nice to mix the two casts together a little more, and she has the special power that's both least generally useful and most easily related to spellcasting (as mage sight) after Makoto. Anyway, using Kalia's pimp cane as an Intelligent Device might fall to Yuuno, or possibly Queen Deva. It would aid narrative balance since the Good Guys are already getting extra, powerful allies this go round. I always thought she was an underdeveloped character, and tied with Afura for my favorite Cool Headed Hottie in 'verse. (either Ifurita also qualify, but are too devoted to Makoto or... what IS that old guys name!?) That would make a solid arc growing from OVA2 to Befriend either the Bugrom or Phantom Tribe and finish dealing with the other before returning to Earth.

Perhaps Diva is a previous Priestess of Mt. Muldoon (either Wind or Fire, having retired or been driven out due to her ambitions, at which point Shayla and Afura were instated in those offices. What happened to the other is open to development - maybe just left to marry and settle down like Miz wants, maybe in shame at an old friend turning Evil Empress, maybe injured/killed trying to stop her...) This would make her a prime candidate as a magic user - presumably in such a case she's better one on one than as a strategic commander, since having Jinnai take over provided such a boost to their capability. If she was originally a 'dipomat breed' bugrom it would explain why she alone (of those seen) looks so human. (The shoulder carapace is probably just an accessory, and the earpieces could be too. Her facial markings, espescially the forehead 'eye spots' might be actual eyes or just some form of ritual marking, as seen on all the current priestesses.)

I suggest this mainly because she seems to be a fervent believer in god (appropriate for a priestess though being so delighted by Jinnai's wickedness would seem to indicate she's fallen from the path a bit, even if she believes him to be a Messenger of God) and because it would give some existing magical and Device training (with whichever Elemental Lamp) for her to base Intelligent Device use on since Nanoha is a remarkable prodigy in how quickly she picks it up and most would not be able to do so as well. Arguing against the 'former priestess' theory is that Miz doesn't bring any such thing up, and the war against the Bugrom has apparently been going on a while. Miz might just be too focussed on avoiding becoming an old maid most of the time and on the moment when in a pinch to worry about it, though, or feel that anything to be said was said long ago, or just keep her thoughts to herself for that matter. On the other hand, she readily takes a place in the party who penetrate the Bugrom fortress while Afura and Shayla cause a diversion, so there could be some history there.

With Nanoha and Fate aged up and the teachers already involved, moving the setting to Negima might be appropriate post-return. Earth's hidden magical society might be too recent for Yuuno to be really interested in them, but he's got all of El-Hazard to catalogue anyway. OTOH, that makes it tricky to integrate die Wolkenritter if they're not operating in the same general area as Nanoha, although there is the class field trip if you put ... Nanohaville (I know the name is given, but can't remember) as a suburb or satellite town, and possibly expand the Negima timeline some. (My Negima-style kung fu is even weaker than my Nanoha-style, I'm afraid.)

I put the intro together a little more, based on the dub and sub versions of the MSLN ep3 intro, the mini-intro after the credits, and a bit of baling wire. Behold! The Intro!

Good evening, this is Takamachi Nanoha. I'm usually an ordinary third-grader, but lately, all sorts of things have been going on. I was given a lttle red jewel, and with it I also got these magic powers.

Now that I've made a new freind and got a bit used to my magic, strange things have started to happen around me. But I don't mind, whatever happens I'll stand up and fight.

The door to a world of magnificent adventure is opening now!

And with that, I'm heaing to the library to see what comments may (hopefully) have been generated by the first post, post this, and (with any luck) append some replies.

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Having read the replies

Agreed, there's No Need for Negima. Strike any references to it here, also; I'll just have to do without Asura in El-Hazard for now. Though the up-aged Nanoha recieving an invitation as a throwaway would be possible, there's too much work reconciling the earth mages to MSLN and EH magic (that already take some shoehorning together) to bother for a simple reference.

I would be utterly ashamed if I didn't get the 1,001 Nights reference now that it's pointed out, though I hadn't thought of it before - just "Makoto looks older there at the epilogue" and my typically poor judgement of character aging. Hmm, I kind of torn over leaving ti the same for the Reference Power and dramatic aging of the younger cast, or shortening it as previously stated by some significant amount to reflect the fact that Yuuno does this stuff for a living (apparently more successfully than Schtalubaugh,) he's not coming at Alhazared magitech cold like Makoto.

As to the MSLN cast picking up powers in tranit... wihle I do recognise the ponits made, Nanoha being able to learn enemy magic as fast as she makes up her own spells doesn't seem like it's all that big a deal, it just makes it easier to pass her off as a demon-god. Yuuno's may be pushing the boundary a little, but it's basically just the paper version of Makoto's - which has appeared not once but twice already. Given the spottiness of the outline even so, possibilities are quite open, especially if someone has an idea for an oddball ability and the perfect situation to make it useful. I freely admit I tend to go for the munch when it comes to character advancement.

Back to Lindy and Ifurita 10,000 Years Later, how would the TSAB know to check on the Takamachi house? Would she just show up on their scanners? When would they show up in the first place? Fate isn't battling Nanoha all over the sky, with barrier zones of shifted time to make ripples in spacetime. aybe it's foreshocks of the Garden's transit? That could be odd enough looking yet faint at first so the Asura only arrives just in time for the staff to be shocked as the Garden disappears in a dimensional event with a power level over 9,000 then scan for traces on the surface and find a powerful Lost Logia signal, Lindy and Chrono following up just in time to keep Ifurita from completely running dry. This would be a couple weeks on, maybe a omnth, so she'd have been unconscious and slowly fading for a while even if not so immediately bad off as I originally wrote.

As for the original suggestions, it was post #70-something in the current Crossovers That MUST Be. I think one for Nanoha's power was self-styling hair, another was the aforementioned speaking to animals, but self-styling hair mainly lends itself to Nymphadora Tonks like toon emoting, which isn't really Nahoha's bag, and, well, when do we see an animal that can't talk in either series except the dolphin-bear-thing in EH ep1, and the pets of Nanoha's school friends? She could could probably make a good attempt at the hair thing by modifying her barrier jacket, now that I think about it. It would certainly be in-genre to do so.

Another possibility that occurred to me is that pretty much any of the special powers seen would be plausible as spells, so what if she could do one spell (not high level combat magic though) even without Raging Heart? It's not the kind of thing she'd think to attempt under most circumstances, so it wouldn't be noticed until at some point she is separated from the Device and thinks, "If only I could cast a- WAAA! Hoooe?" Again, the question becomes "what spell" and "when would it show up?"

Something that just occurred to me, anti-Deva-as-Priestess: She didn't know where Forbidden Island was. Of course, maybe each Priestess only knows part of the information, or the discovery dates to after she stepped down, or her secret knowledge was the location of that underground city that Ifurita destroyed (possibly full of lesser relics that the Bugrom had already looted, fueling their war effort.) Or, perhaps she was merely an acolyte and left when someone else was named High Priestess over her.

- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[deadpan29]

On Diva as priestess: 
I think it is implied throughout the series that the Bugrom have been bitter enemeys of the humans for generations. This makes it unlikely that the Muldoon Priestesses would have a Bugrom member in living memory.  However there is a way around this.
In the third OAV it is made quite clear that Diva isn't just Queen of the Bugrom in the political sense, but is Queen in the biological sense of a hive queen and gives birth to all the other Bugrom.  It's also apparent that she expects to be able to produce more children with Jinai, which indicates she's not that far off from human, unless the Bugrom have something like the Xenomorph's inherent horizontal gene transfer ability and can mate with nearly anything. 
What if Bugrom queens aren't born from other Bugrom queens?  What if the Bugrom take a human female and put her through some from of genetic and mental modification to produce a queen?  Maybe making queens from various species was part of the Bugrom life cycle and when they started encountering humans, hives with human-origin queens produced Bugrom with human or near human inteligence and came to be the dominant form.  Or maybe Bugrom are a bio-weapon/warrior race created in the ancienet wars that produced the Demon Gods.
Whatever the reason, this would let you have Diva as a former priestess of Mt. Muldoon, with her perspective twisted by the process of becoming a Bugrom Queen.
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No, I don't believe the world has gone mad.  In order for it to go mad it would need to have been sane at some point.

[SCM Writer of 2814]

...

So, they'd be the Borgrom?

I think the weapon warrior race idea is good. After all, ants are pretty much the badass standing army of the insect world. Bees are the airforce. No idea who the navy would be. Crabs? I don't think Diva mentally 'twisted' in any way. She seems pretty lucid and logical, except for wanting to mate with Jinnai...

On second thought, she's obviously so far past insane, she's approaching sanity from the other side of the world.
--------------------------------------
I am the LORD OF THE CRACK!
Check out said crack:
Takamachi Nanoha of 2814- Green Lantern Nanoha. To START! Now with a TvTropes page!
FATE/Holy Grail War of 2814- The Fifth Holy Grail War with Magical Girl Prisma Illya, in the DCAU, from the above story.
Magical Girl Magistra Erebea Molly- the world's first Dresden Files/TvTropes Crossover.
VENGEANCE! The Musical! The Story of Uchiha Sasuke

[Proginoskes]

"Twisted" doesn't mean "broken". It's a simple switch (note that I've never seen any of the sources, so I'm guessing): As a human priestess of Mt. Muldoon, she wished passionately for the destruction of the Bugrom. As a Bugrom Queen, she wishes passionately for the success and proliferation of the Bugrom. Same degree of passion, same subject, and contrary direction. Her other mental attributes might remain largely the same.

[deadpan29]

This could also serve as an explanation as to why she didn't know where Forbidden Island was. Perhaps portions of her memories of her former existence are suppressed, incoherently jumbled, or just plain gone. (Having the memories completely suppressed or erased would remove most of the interesting aspects of making her as a former priestess in the first place.)
Edit:  Also, the reactions of Qawool Towles (3rd arc, new water priestess) make more sense in this light.  It's not just a general insect phobia if she has heard stories of what happened to one of the earlier priestesses.  Maybe she knew Diva before her conversion and the idea of having that happen her is Qawool's personal nightmare.
----------
No, I don't believe the world has gone mad.  In order for it to go mad it would need to have been sane at some point.

[classicdrogn]

Prescript: all of this may be considered further solicitation for commentary, I'm tryng to restart my muse, now all but silent for a couple of years, and even if I disagree with them comments ae like jumper cables.

---------------

Kyaaa~ ...Okay, now I've watched Nanoha again and A's, and the 'cast one spell Device-free' thing won't work for Nanoha either, because the top-tier combat spells are the only things everyone can't cast without a Device, and the familiars & Yuuno get along just fine for their Binds and physical enhancement.

I'm starting to think the person who asked "How could you TELL if Nanoha got a traveler power?" was right. It's hard to come up with something that couldn't be done as well by a spell if she wanted to, yet isn't gamebreakingly powerful. Telekinesis? Plant Control? Maybe go back to the hair thing, take it to an extreme like that Marvel Comics character, Black Bolt's wife. (Medusa? Maybe...)

For that matter, the spells Yuuno uses to speed up research in the Infinite Library later in A's makes the "read and comprehend with a touch" power for him less of a bump in ability, but also a bit too close to an incremental increase in an existing (spell) ability, which is the same problem I keep having with ideas for Nanoha.

The Book of Darkness activated June 6th, while the canon Jewel Seeds Incident ended around the first week of May, going by the datelines, and this time Fate got them faster than that. This being the case, die Wolkenritter are definately not going to be around to take part in any of the events surrounding the Jewel Seeds (though I think that was only suggested in the original CTMB discussion, since I didn't plan on showing much of the Earth-side events on camera.)

Actually, watching A's, the only thoughts I have on how adding the returned Earthlings to that mix lead to them curbstomping die Wolkenritter, who mainly have experience and the Cartidge system on Team Nanoha in the first place. I've ruled Cartiridges a more recent developement than the Ancient War so they still have that, but a Nanoha with nearly three years adventuring instead of a couple weeks and a few months' solo practice? Then add Ifurita iin the mix... Most likely, Shahal gets sniped when she's going after Nanoha's linker core, and even a relatively low-power, precise shot from Ifurita (since Nanoha is on the next building over) isn't something you shrug off - even Ura the living armor was left rolling around in pain in EH OVA1 ep4 or 5 and had a deep wound from Ifurita II in OVA2 ep2. That's assuming they can pin down a more seasoned Nanoha to begin with... though that would be right around the amount of elapsed time that Nanoha had a bad defeat due to strain from overtraining, mentioned in StrikerS.

Of course, then the 'mysterious masked magi' would appear, and exposing them early would really foul the plot. Of course, there's no point writing a crossover if you're not going to change anything, but that begs the question of where to go and how, even if it's not exactly an immenent worry. Hiding die Wolkenritter's activity from Hayate would become quite difficult with Shahal in the hospital due to a through-and-through energy burn, though. Eh, I dunno. I'd need to watch StrikerS as well before deciding, I seem to recall some connection between Graham and the black-ops group involved there, at least in some fics. Not that I've read a lot of MSLN fic, I've let it pile up in a folder until I got around to watching the shows.

At least I found out the name of the Old Dude in the Shrine in OVA2, Yuba Yurius. Going into more detail about how he arrived in El-Hazard might make for an interesting tangent somewhere, especially if it could be tied to Nanoha continuity - perhaps whatever case the TSAB agent young Admiral Graham met the way Nanoha met Yuuno involved something that ended up tossing him into the gap between dimensions - it could even have been reports on that incident that gave Precia the idea to look for the ancient Alhazared civilization there.

Even before that, however, Nanoha has to get to El-Hazard in the first place. I'm thinking she arrives in the Shinonome ruins just as energy starts crackling over the walls, in time for Ifurita to look over Makoto's shoulder and add her name to the speech ("I'll leave it all up to you, Makoto, Nanoha. When you reach that nostalgic world, say hello to me.") before sending the lot of them off. A flash of light later (the images Makoto sees in transit are most likely an aspect of his special bond with Ifurita) and she's standing in a jungle, being screeched at by a troup of mohawk-monkeys alarmed by her sudden appearance. And then, Ifurita II shows up, insisting most firly that she leave. Nanoha being the polite sort would be happy to comply but doesn't know where she is; Ifurita has a short temper since she's already so close to the main building. And of course, once you start shooting at her, Nanoha is not the type to turn and run, even if she would refer to talk the problem out. Since they ARE close by, however, Yuba quickly comes as well and is more willing to hear the girl out, especially since (depending on backsory) he might recognise her Mid-style magic circles. Until then, though, I need a good fight sequence. Assume I'm talking about Ifurita II from here on, unless noted otherwise.

Standing off and shooting blasts seems to suit Ifurita well enough, but Nanoha can dodge and return fire probably as well as she can, if not quite at the same level of power (Ifurita can throw Buster-level blasts rapid-fire, Nanoha has to charge a Divine Buster for a few seconds) so close combat would be the next choice (since wide area attacks would damage the landscape) and Yuuno would break out the binding magic to help. That seems to be unknown on El-Hazard, so it would be good for a momentary suprise even if Ifurita instantly assimilates the technique herself. From there, I'm torn - even Ifurita shouldn't be able to just break a Chain Bind or Struggle Bind outright, but even being doubleteamed and up against never before seen powers I think she should still give a creditable showing, if not pull off an outright win. I'd like to have her use something like "the Southern Capital Technique, also called Fist of the Earth" or something similar, that grants massive strength, but if she had something like that why not use it when getting spanked by Kalia in canon? (Because they needed Kalia to win for the plot, of course, but I'm trying to stick to internal logic rather than meta-level.)

Northern Capital Technique being Shayla's trick of surrounding herself in a shroud of fire; whether the other Priestesses' styles are also related to Ancient capitals is unstated. Naturally, this would have to be in a Chain Bind, since Struggle Binds also dispel magic on the target. The advantage of a modern Barrier Jacket is harder to quantify - much better than anything the Lamps do for the Priestesses, but an Ifurita uniform shouldn't be far behind, I don't think. Ifurita I says she has to experience a technique directly to copy it, so actually incorporating that technique would probably require a minimum of three or four sucessful melee strikes, possibly doing enough damage to shatter part of it like when Vita breaks through the bow and windbreaker in A's. There's no TSAB mechanics nearby, so actually damaging Raging Heart is out.

Having people mistake Nanoha for a demon-god could begin as a running joke with Yuba, though he'd know otherwise as soon as he laid a hand on her shoulder and got no response from Make Friends & Influence Mecha. Raging Heart on the other hand would work, but doesn't seem neccessary.... though since the Intelligent Devices seem to know a fair bit about their own construction, given the requests they made while being repaired after meeting die Wolkenritter, perhaps a lesser degree of damage inflicted could be repaired by Yuba using the shrine's main console, and/or parts from the various other stuff lying around.

I have this odd image of hte two of them sort of becoming friends, and Yuba sitting across a goban or shogi board from where Raging Heart in Device Mode is laid across a cushion, playing a game where he moves her peices also, according to spoken instructions. I blame this on the much more vocal and proactive movie version Raging Heart... this sequence, and a need for repairs, whould be an excuse to upgrade her to that form, though. Shin Bankai- I mean, Excelion form Raging Heart from A's (and did anyone else get the feeling Signum was the love child of Saber from F/SN and Renji from Bleach? I mean, blonde+red=pink hair, armordress, sword/snake weapon plus a defense ability in the sheath and a ranged attack in powered up/combined form... no funky tats, though, and her temper would have to come more from Saber. I'd kind of like to see a Nanoha A's/Bleach crossover, actually, Rukia and Vita bonding over bunnies would almost be worth it on its own. The original Pretty Cure could be fun too, Nanoha and Fate doing their first henshin with the repaired Devices was a real Cure Black & Cure White moment. I had a hard job resisting the urge to call out "DUAL AURA WAVE!" for them just then.)

Where was I? Right, Exceed form Raging Heart Excelion. I think it's meh, especially compared to movie-style shooting form Raging Heart, with an actual grip and trigger (Like a BOSS!) rather than making Nanoha grab the magazine (Like a FOOL! Insert firearms safety speech here. At least she doesn't do it in StrikerS.) Actually adding a cartridge system would have to happen later, as previously noted, but at least the foundation work would be there. Once everything was explained, I can easily see Nanoha asking Ifurita to help her train her magic use, if not teach her directly, given the work ethic she shows throughout the MSLN seasons. She's like the magical girl version of Rock Lee, almost - all that's really missing are exclamations of youth and guts turning 1% into 100% ... and the movie version even has that, rephrased a bit. The time needed for repairs and refamiliarization would let Yuuno peruse Yuba's library, and fill out the time in El-Hazard for The Second Verse/Night until Nanoha leaves; this Verse also has Nanoha's family reacting to her disseappearing to round it out. I'm watching Trinargle Heart next to see how the elder Takamachi not-exactly-siblings stack up for mad leet ninja skills.

... um, okay, skills both mad and leet, and that's just in the first action sequence of Toraha OVA1. (toothy grin) Even though MSLN continuity doesn't perfectly align, (Nanoha's father is alive, and she's is in a different school, as are the school-age customers judging by the uniform) this should still be good.

(later)

Having now finished StrikerS as well, I propose Hazardous Lyrics III: Operation Jail Bait. Because if the Combat Cyborg and Artificial Mage projects were based on recovered information about or the damaged remains of an original Ifurita unit there is absolutley no way that the various people in on the conspiracy wouldn't do everything in their power to try to get control of a working model after one appears, regardless of whether it's a world signatory to the TSA treaties or not - maybe even especially if not; even if they're not shown there's got to be rival interdimensional powers that they wouldn't want gaining such a resource. Since his name comes up almost from the beginning of StrikerS and is known as an involved party by the investigative side, having one of the senior counter-conspirators contact the El-Hazard group and ask Ifurita to act as the lure for a sting to bring him out before his timetable called for it seems entirely in order. Plus it facilitates the title, which is fitting in so many other ways as well for the Nanoha franchise.

My favorite is still Signum, though, and no matter how you slice it she's legal. Plus in this continuity I could get to have her and Afura in the same scenes! Double win! Agito/Shayla would probably not get along so well, however, without a theraputic bonding moment (I.E., just the two of them and a very wide target selection opportunity) or two.

While I'm talking about Shayla-Shayla, I've thought over the idea of Deva as a former High Priestess some more, and while it's not locked in I like it; this would make the exact location of Forbidden Islan and the path through the ruins to Ifurita I's stasis chamber secret knowledge of the Fire Priestess (since it's Shayla who opens the door and leads Makoto & co. inside) while the Air Priestess knew of either the destroyed city where Deva led Jinnai or something else in Bugrom territory, in either case already looted, and the Water Priestess's secret(s,) if any, are as yet unrevealed. Something underwater would be reasonable, but I have no specific ideas. (Maybe Nanoha's traveler power is that she can breathe underwater? It woud fit the criteria of having limited utility most of the time, but potentially a critical ace in the right situation.)

The idea of the Saint's Cradle as a relic of Ancient Alhazared and needing someone of royal blood to activate (rather like the Eye of God in that) and its huge size suggests that the Belkan civilization may have had direct roots in or actually been founded by refugees from the Ancient War who left to escape the final blows that destroyed its civilization and tossed it into the cracks between dimensions, or wherever it actually is. The skies look normal, but who knows? Maybe whatever happened grabbed the entire solar system, and the lights in the sky beyond are actually the glowing dimensional walls around various universes. Hey, it worked for Kingdom Hearts.

The endless monologuing in the last few episodes of Strikers really irritated me. To the point I wanted to drop an SI in just to say, "You talk too much" and use an Infinite Edge World Split Slash to shut them up. Well, maybe not a World Split Slash, Mid-Childa is where Signum keeps all her stuff, but at least a Sticky Endo or Death of One Thousand Combine Harvesters. Seriously, way too much jaw-flapping. (Infinite Edge/Mugenzan is basically the sword version of the Monkey King's Compliant Staff, able to extend and retract without worrying about petty details like conservation of momentum and with a subatomically-fine edge. It's not so much a physical object as the philosophical concept of a thing that divides other things lent a seeming of existence by what would be called an AT-field projection in Crapangelion, so it's also a shield, wall, or a sieve if that's more fitting for the task. I mentioned a tendency to munch out, if you'll recall. I renamed it from The Sword of Ullathanderthar in the original concept because that wasn't cool enough, and the current form is as codified for a Lesser Eternal Spirit (AKA an equipment Summon) for Ninja Robot Space Fighter. If you were on the Mekton Zeta Mailing List a decade or so ago and remember the Ogattawannalikkem: Over The Top setting, it was mentioned in the lead up to that as "A Mythteron weapon, said to be used to slice off a little bit of the moon each night from full to new.")

I've gotten sidetracked again; this mostly-offline stuff is for the dickiebirds. Overall, I'm going to have to say that I think StrikerS would have been better if they only had 13 episodes to work with and kept the pace up more, but probably not a rich a source of backstory elements useable here. With a closer initial tie to the Roshtarian crown and a couple years among the peole of El-Hazard, I'd expect Nanoha and Fate to remain 'civilian collaborators' or contractors rather than join the TSAB outright; Hayate might not get the choice if she was arrested by TSAB agents but with her being a native of a Non-Administered World and at least the possibility of the Rostarian delegation to Earth having her first their jurisdiction could be questioned. Then again, she is apparently the legal ward of Admiral Graham, even if she thinks she's just an ordinary Japanese schoolgirl.

Getting back to the point in in Hazardous Lyrics that I'm actually trying to write now: should I choose to go with the plan of having Raging Heart damaged fighting Ifurita II and repaired in movie-style form using parts from and the console in the EH OVA2 shrine, should the magic circles it projects be altered? El-Hazard magic uses none while the Cyborgs have data block/geartooth designs - part of that of course is the fact that it's not actually a single continuity, and the detailed, spinning instant runes of the more modern series would be too expensive to animate without digital tools even if the idea came up when El-Hazard was in production, but as an in-continuity explanation it could simply be that those data-ring circles with their eccentric centers are neccessary to interface the ancient Alhazared magic style with modern Mid, or even the slightly-less-ancient Belkan style and equipment. If so, Ifuritas who copy and use a modern mage's attacks would also manifest one, I think. Not that it makes a huge difference in text form, of course. Maybe it's just my own gearhead tendencies, but the Mid circles always seemed dull to me, while the data rings are nifty. A more frightening possibility is that the level of complexity in spells to need a circle is a more modern invention than the Ancient War, and those city-busting atttacks we see Ifurita throwing around like basic fireballs actually ARE the Ifurita-strength version of a basic fireball. In such a case, Ifurita firing a Buster-class spell (let alone a Starlight Breaker) would probably equal a TSAB naval main cannon, l'Arc-En-Ciel...

- CD is still amused by the fansubber quip "Rainbows are straighter than Subaru," even if it is a blatant overstatement compared to Fatora and Alielle.

Library's about to close so I don't have time to read replies let alone respond, but I'll save off a copy and try to get back faster than a week next time. And maybe write some actual prose, not just outlines and ideas.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[robkelk]

I'm starting to think the person who asked "How could you TELL if Nanoha got a traveler power?" was right. It's hard to come up with something that couldn't be done as well by a spell if she wanted to, yet isn't gamebreakingly powerful. Telekinesis? Plant Control? Maybe go back to the hair thing, take it to an extreme like that Marvel Comics character, Black Bolt's wife. (Medusa? Maybe...)

If one approach isn't working, try something completely different.

What does "Nanoha" mean in English? I've only ever seen the romaji so I'm not sure whether the kanji match, but "nanohana" is brassica napus - what we call "rapeseed" or "canola". The Japanese version of the language of flowers http://www.angelfire.com/il/SumieSociety/hanak.html]on this webpage says nanohana means "cheerful" - which certainly fits Nanoha - and that the flower is used in get-well arrangements.

So... a healing power, perhaps? (Or go with the actual effects of rapeseed and give her the ability to induce allergy attacks... "Fate, you can't be allergic to me! ... Can you?" )
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[SCM Writer of 2814]

Give Nanoha an evildar. Or for humorus effect, a libido-dar.
--------------------------------------
I am the LORD OF THE CRACK!
Check out said crack:
Takamachi Nanoha of 2814- Green Lantern Nanoha. To START! Now with a TvTropes page!
FATE/Holy Grail War of 2814- The Fifth Holy Grail War with Magical Girl Prisma Illya, in the DCAU, from the above story.
Magical Girl Magistra Erebea Molly- the world's first Dresden Files/TvTropes Crossover.
VENGEANCE! The Musical! The Story of Uchiha Sasuke

[Guilherme Loureiro]

I'm starting to think the person who asked "How could you TELL if Nanoha got a traveler power?" was right. It's hard to come up with something that couldn't be done as well by a spell if she wanted to, yet isn't gamebreakingly powerful. Telekinesis? Plant Control? Maybe go back to the hair thing, take it to an extreme like that Marvel Comics character, Black Bolt's wife. (Medusa? Maybe...)

If one approach isn't working, try something completely different.

What does "Nanoha" mean in English? I've only ever seen the romaji so I'm not sure whether the kanji match, but "nanohana" is brassica napus - what we call "rapeseed" or "canola". The Japanese version of the language of flowers on this webpage says nanohana means "cheerful" - which certainly fits Nanoha - and that the flower is used in get-well arrangements.

So... a healing power, perhaps? (Or go with the actual effects of rapeseed and give her the ability to induce allergy attacks... "Fate, you can't be allergic to me! ... Can you?" )

Nanoha is written in Hiragana, so, no way to know for certain if she's named after the flower or not, but she probably is(BTW, na can mean canola, but also means "greens", "vegetables" - take that however you will)

[classicdrogn]

Hmm, that kind of tends toward a vote for plant control for Nanoha, I guess. Given that at this point I'm havering between that and Breathe Underwater, I'd call that question mostly solved - I'll use whichever allows for the best critical moment. Now, on to the stuff I wrote offline - which I'll warn contains a rather large digression but one I don't want to delete and forget about - you never know when some oddball idea will work for something else.

-------------------------------

3rd arc? Is there another OVA, then? I've seen a couple of fanfics with the premise that Miz had to find an apprentice before she could retire, but one was crap and the other (by Ammadeau, may not have been released since I was prereading for him for a while, way back when) put a locked Ranma in as the apprentice, so I'd figured they arrived at the idea independently. (I think one or the other featured a curry-eating contest at Nanami's restaurant, but with Ifurita as a contestant that had to be set after the 1001 nights and I doubt Miz would wait that long.) As for the Bugrom being the ancient enemies of the other peoples of El-Hazard... Well, sure. Like England and France, or Japan and China; that doesn't mean there aren't periods when they get along better - an active, intense conflict that goes more than a handful of years tends to kill off everyone interested in fighting, without huge populations and strong authority driving them.

Granted, this paints the Bugrom as relatively human in terms of their reasoning and reactions, but while they may be a bit dim the rank-and-file bugrom in Jinnai's retinue seem to bear that out. Geiger Xenomorphs always seemed overdone to the point of being ridiculous (and tech like 'their' ship from the first movie is never seen again, as if even the writers retroactively decided they didn't want the damn things spreading on their own) so I'm inclined against the notion of man-sized insects overrunning the landscape like locusts unless actively contained and eliminated. Even 'A Plague of Insecticons' struck me as plot-broken - if the Insecticons could clone themselves so much, whhy didn't Megatron use them lik the disposable massed troops they are and crush the always-strecthed-thin Autobots once and for all? No, if the Bugrom have shared the planet for hundreds or thousands of ears and haven't wiped out the humans or been wiped out themselves, they can't be all that aggressive most of the time.

Under an "England and France" paradigm, the previous Queen would have pursued more peaceful relations (or at least a period of rebuilding) and sent a Royal Diplomat, the near-human looking Deva to become an acolyte as a show of good faith, or possibly out of a genuine interest in/respect for the religion of El-Hazard since the characters make a big deal of how out of all the many tribes only the Phantom Tribe are heretics. Too bad for the peaceniks, everything Deva sees during her apprenticeship and term as Priestess of the Wind just reinforces her belief that humans are vastly inferior to bugrom - weaker, less durable, prone to argument and discord - and hence when the old queen dies and leaves her the senior Royal Bugrom she embarks on a new campaign of conquest after taking the throne. This requires laying down a little backstory as you can see, but has the virtue of avoiding the 'evilizing brain sucker' cliche.

As to her being a literal queen mother, I'd explain the wildly variant physiology of various bugrom breeds as being partially a matter of what her biochemistry is (part conscious control, part emotional state, part diet) when she gets a batch of eggs fertilized (a few thousand at a go, laid a few days later and seperated into hatchery cells like a beehive) and what the newly-hatched larvae are fed before they undergo metamorphosis into the adult forms. Being a 'royal bugrom' means having all the genetics neccessary and fully developed genitive organs, being a 'diplomat breed' means looking mostly like a human (or possibly other intelligent races - whatever the green fuzzy hot springs attendant was, frex) and the two are not neccessarily linked. The idea that Deva (and Jinnai) can repopulate the depleted Bugrom forces also speaks against her being a human with a brain-sucker; at most offspring in such a case should be mostly human but born with their brains already sucked. Of course, cross-fertility between humans and insect-based (however human looking) people is implausible in its own right but eh, Hot Alien Chicks are Biologically Compatible. For some reason, so are tentacle demons going the other way, but the bugrom aren't QUITE that ugly.

Anyway, back to this '3rd arc' - I suppose there's probably at least a small amount of information on Wikipedia (and I really should get over my software-docuwiki "Dammit, I want a downloadable manual!" induced dislike, as an encyclopedia they work well) but does anyone know a good detailed source? Even just a couple of fanfics that follow much the same plot with a Ranma-Insertion or something would work for the gist, I expect to change too much by that time for it to matter and would want to get back to the waiting Nanoha A's plot anyway.

On an unhelpful tangent, I played a lot of Macross Ace Frontier the past few days (Waah! I want the sequel, Ace Combat!) and was doing one of the Enemy Missions as a red Bajura when it struck me, "Jinnai would absolutely love these things!" Then I thought about it some more... red Itano Circus multishot = Photon Lancer or Divine Shooter, ship-wrecking big beam with a few seconds charge time = Lightning End or Divine Buster, energy-tail-thing (for the little brown bajura) = Levatein's Shlangenform, even physical bullets are at least approximated by Vita's Schwalbe Fliegen; they would actually fit as an elite type in a Nanoha cross. Oh, and what's this I was trying to write? A Nanoha cross! How handy! (No! Not gonna do it, not at this juncture.)

It was 100% story research that I fished out that game again, absolutely. Nothing to do with reading some backlogged Wednesday's Child chapters and wanting to whoop up on Yar-Dartz and L'Eggults like Tail Kinker's Ranma-Insert while slacking off, no sir! I need to see if Sketchley's updated his Macross timeline to incorporate the stuff from Frontier, though, my local copy is from 2009 and only includes up to 2050 when the VF-X2 game ended, to have the Bajura history in context.

Now if I could just figure out how to live more than thirty seconds in the EX missions I'd be golden. Well, yellow-anodized aluminum, at least. Iron pyrite? Still not writing, so I doubt anyone but myself would call it being ahead I suppose.

But, yeah, bajura as bugrom. Deva is a way hotter queen, no foolin'. Jinnai's ambitions may be aimed at planetary territory (if in no other way 'down to Earth') but with the Garden of Time showing up as well as the Trigger of Destruction, and several characters at least aware of the Mid-Childean interdimensional ... federation? Alliance? Whatever their government amounts to, though it seems like the three canned brains were it for civilian oversight with a General directly responsible for controlling crime and the trio of Old Admirals credited with pulling the TSA treaties together, so it may actually be a military junta - and the various fiction of Earth (even if he thinks it's for nerds Jinnai at least has to have heard of Star Wars, not to mention the various space anime - wasn't a Science Fiction Club mentioned in the first ep? One of the ones who lost their funding and were complaining, or something) there's enough to turn some interest skywards. Since it's not a mecha show, it would probabbly be better to scale the bajura down to be the same relative to human adults rather than variable fighters, though. The tight spot would be creating the integrated Devices grafted into the big cannon spike; if the Bugrom had that technology they'd have won long ago. Maybe Precia trades it for access to their looted Ancient books and machines?

The VF-0 Pheonix and SV-51 may have been in limited service in 2008 in their native continuity, (see Macross Zero, set in September) but Nanoha's Earth hasn't had an alien ship full of dead giants to prioritise methods of fighting oversized humanoids and reverse engineer compact fusion powerplants, super-alloys and energized armor, nor a grueling world war to push military technology. It would almost be worth the extra jackhammering to make it fit just for the image of a Pheonix squadron getting mixed up in one of the aerial magical girl battles, though, or die Wolkenritter interfering in the Maya Island incident. There's quite enough to chew on with MSLN/EH, but I'm sooo tempted, and it's not like we actually see anything beyond a couple of (relatively minor) cities in Nanoha and just a single school and a few stills of daily life (widest shot being Mt. Fuji) post-EH, so the Earth United Nations Government could technically be getting together and consolidating itself in the dying days of the Unification War, with Japan signing on peacefully early in that process. Alien Star Ship-1 would have crashed when Nanoha was one, the fighting is far away, and she's (as she says) an ordinary third-grader; however important they might be such things don't neccesarily register with her as more than background noise on the TV News.

The TSAB travels interdimensionally, after all, they don't neccessarily explore spacially at all. I don't think Nanoha is the sort to run off to Mid-Childa rather than help the reconstruction if Earth had been bombarded in February 2010 and nearly wiped out though, so StrikerS continuity would be even more blitzed than I'd planned. Operation Jail Bait would draw the direct antagonists to them rather than the other way around, but that doesn't help the problem of corruption in the TSA Ground Forces any.

I can't see even Nanoha, Fate, Yuuno, Mage-Makoto, and both Ifurita combined realistically being able to protect more than a city each at most (via Barrier magic) and probably just a few blocks each against millions of capitol ships spread evenly around the entire planet, even if they knew about it ahead of time. Hmm, would a big magic attack register as channeling superdimension energy to overtechnology sensors? I'd expect so, in a fused world like that. As for why the repairs-well-underway ASS-1/Visitor/SDF-1's fold drives don't register as a Lost Logia... BECAUSE MAGIC! Okay, less Chibi-Reaper, more ClassicDrogn: Because they haven't been repaired yet, overtechnology is tricky after all. For that matter, maybe they have, but the world government obviously has their hands all over it and the covert ops reports are that the leadership is extremely xenophobic after having the huge thing crash into their planet and wipe out a few major cities on its way down. The Cyclops spacetime radar can detect magic as a superdimension energy pulse, but only major things or very nearby (it is designed for sensing huge starships, not individual magi after all,) and the activity with the Jewel Seeds as Fate gathered them and then the dimensional quake as Precia left in the Garden shortly after getting them working would give the impression that a lot of background noise is normal, only a sustained storng signal (like the one put of by AFOS near Maya Island) is worth following up on.

Hmm, time travel is canonical for transit to and from El-Hazard, assuming there's no real way for them to persuede goverment officials to listen if they try to warn them about these events, what could they do to try to mitigate? Mass-trasport offworld maybe? What would the TSAB respond, assuming they've never encountered Zentlaedy before? What connection if any does the Proto-Culture have to Alhazared? The various flashabacks do often mention that there was more than one ancient culture that fell to their own technology when lost logia are explained, even if Alhazared is the only one specifically named. The Proto-Culture's split into Supervision Army and Inspection Army and fighting until the only survivors are their engineered warrior race definitely fits the bill.

Arg, but I was trying to reaffirm the decision to keep it purely MSLN/EH rather than let the Mecha-Bunnytank hijack things! (You know, the bunny-eared variable tank from Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross? You might remember a horrid 'rabbit-technology' pun from the Harmony Gold/Macek dub for that scene.) It's just that Macross (and Transformers and GaoGaiGar and FLCL and BGC and Megazone 23 and Dai-Guard, and Naruto up until Tsunade returns) is one of my top-tier, SS-rank fandoms while Nanoha and El-Hazard (and Slayers and Pretty Cure and Hellsing and Kingdom Hearts and Excel Saga and Read or Die and Steel Angel Kurumi, and Harry Potter up to GoF) are only A to S, and despite the massive difference in physical scale the collateral damage hints that combat power is about equal, or close enough for fic. Mistah Gears, that's me. I wuvs me my mechas I doos. They are... my preeeciousss.

... How many pages could the Book of Darkness drain from the Mayan Island Bird-Man? Could it even hold all that energy? Just hitting up Sara and Shin would be a lot, she absorbs four simultanous H-bombs with a little help from the bird-man before space folding away and Shin... well, it sure looks like he SPACE FOLDS AFTER HER ON HIS OWN POWER. No McGuffin alien. No Device. No training. VF-0 Pheonix with a maximum no-atmo endurance of 2-3 minutes if it WASN'T powerles and falling apart around him. Nothing but raw talent and the song on his lips. Space slaggin' fold. He's way over 9000. I have to wonder if the songbird of Macross Frontier Sheril Nome is descended from Little Sis who stayed behind, or if Shin and Sara eventually decided to defold and set up house together somewhere, and it happened to be on the colony she came from? I've been letting the antici ... pation build before finally watching Macross F while stirring this pot, but I may just dive in at last.

... What would the final monster-form of the Book of Darkness security program look like with a significant amount of its power stolen from the Bird-Man in Song of Death mode? Talk about trading one problem for another! And while I'm talking about the Bird-Man, look at that thing's chest and tell me it's not all about the Spiral Energy. (Not even if I go insane and use this stuff will there be Gurren Lagann involved. Not that I hate it or anything, but the cosmology is too incompatible.)

... For extra-deep hurting, plug in the (#1) Naruto fusion I (should have unless I forget between now and getting to the library) just posted seperately in a few more years. Except a continent-sized Barrier would definitely have shown up on TSAB scans, even if it's only a small continent. Unless, BECAUSE MAGIC! Chibi-Reaper is right, that's such a great catchphrase.)

... even if I do all of this, I promise not to subject you to Magical Bridge Bunny Pretty Shammi.

... probably ...

(Unless it becomes too tempting to resist.)

... Double arg, now BACK - TO - THE - POINT. Yes. I'm really not planning to do any extra crossovers, just MSLN/EH.

Bugrom as a bioweapon/supersoldier from the Ancient War... well, maybe. I kind of thought of them as a less inimical version of the Phantom Tribe, dimensionally transplanted inadvertently by the Eye of God. They're certainly not on a level with Demon-Gods as fighters, (as SOLDIERS, yes, teamwork and uniformity within specializations is their whole thing, but there are some qualities which quantity can't match, and demon-god level individual power is one of those things) but I suppose they might have been the product of a lesser nation that didn't have the moxie to produce an ifrit or ifurita or the connections to get one from an ally, and did the best they could with a variation of the Familiar enhancement magic. That explanation MIGHT make way for a 'Deva was a human Priestess, then got turned into a bugrom' plot, but the Priestesses are the pinnacle of modern magic in El-Hazard as far as we see, and they don't do anything like that level of complexity, just basic combat and direct utility spells like Afura's flight and Miz's underwater travel bubble.

I was thinking, though - Deva has a bunch of bearers carrying her entire, crystalline throne around when she went to visit the troops - is there something special about it? It doesn't look very comfortable, after all, and it would surely be quicker to arrane a howdah on one of the big fliers and have one made at the destination if it's just a traditional design or something, even more so if its value lies in the bottoms that have graced it rather than an inherent ability, and hence taking it to the front lines is a risk for no reward. It's not likely to have any combat ability, or a magically trained Deva who's willing to get somewhere near the battle to rally the troops would probably use it, rather than doing the nothing that we see.

It's not a communications device (my first thought was that it was the Wind Priestess version of the Fire Priestess knowing where to find Ifurita, and conferred long-range telepathy since wind is often linked to thought) or she wouldn't need Messenger Bugrom, one of which is shown arriving while she's lounging on it. It nevers flares with light or makes noises or does any of the things commonly assosciated with relic devices in El-Hazard... With the reproduction process I mentioned above, maybe it magically controls what kind of bugrom are produced from a batch of eggs, and/or synthesises or stimulates the hormones needed to control that stage?

Is it the repository of information for all the various types of bugrom, and not her (or any other single) body/genetics at all? One or more of those hexagonal pillars could be a cloning tank where lots of golf-ball-or-smaller bugrom eggs are produced, and new samples (such as from Deva and Jinnai) be needed only to create new types of bugrom. Maybe it just needs to be programmed and supplied with raw materials, and "producing new bugrom with Jinnai" is with him acting in the capacty of military leader writing specifications for a development program.

- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[deadpan29]

3rd arc? Is there another OVA, then?

There was a short (12 episodes) tv series called El Hazard: the Alternative World.  This is a continuation of the OVA continuity, as opposed to the Wanderers tv series.  In the Alternative World series, the core cast (including Katsuhiko Jinai and the two princesses) get pulled into a parallel world.   Also along for the ride are Qawool Towels (spelling varies) who is Miz Mishtal's replacement at Mt. Muldoon and Alielle's younger identical brother Parnasse.  Drama occurs involving local versions of the Eye of God, Bugrom, and Diva, along with the leaders of a grim, heavily industrialized human realm.  Generally, this series isn't as good as the OAVs, but is worth watching if you are a fan of the series or want the full backstory/continuity for fanfic writing.
Edit: The end of this series is also when Diva has Katsuhiko carried off into her tent/chaimbers to produce the next generation of Bugrom, and it is heavily implied that at least the first stage of this is the old-fashioned hot and sticky method of reproduction. 
In canon there is a big river (the Holy River of God) separating Bugrom and human lands, and this was given as the reason they hadn't had too many all out wars despite mutual hostility for centuries or more.  However, as an excuse for holding back generations of hatred, this seems a little weak.  If you want to go the "England and France" route, that should be workable as well.
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No, I don't believe the world has gone mad.  In order for it to go mad it would need to have been sane at some point.

[Bob Schroeck]

However, as an excuse for holding back generations of hatred, this seems a little weak.

To be fair, the Holy River of God was more like a long, thin inland sea in size than a normal river.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[deadpan29]

Here is a fan site with more information on the Alternate World and characters introduced in it than wikipedia has.  There is a manga adaptation of the Alternate World out there somewhere if hunting that down might be more convenient than finding videos of the series.  Fanfic set durring that arc seem to be hard to find.  Fanfic set afterward, using the new characters can be found by googling "Parnasse" and "Hazard" together, but there aren't really a lot of them.
Also, my memories of the Holy River as a major obstacle seem to be based more on the Wanderer's series than the OVA.
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No, I don't believe the world has gone mad.  In order for it to go mad it would need to have been sane at some point.