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[DSKS][RFC][Spoilers] Taking Care of Business, or, Fixing Kyubei - a (possible) DSKS Side Story
03-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Not that I've seen Puella Magi Madoka Magica yet, I have been hearing plenty about it, and signs point towards that little abomination known as Kyubei as the real offender. And in DSKS-verse, he'd be about as palatable as Metallia playing at being moon-cat. That is, to be utterly destroyed with maximum prejudice.
Raven absolutely hates the imp on general principal - he cheats death somehow. However, dealing with the creep strikes me as elegantly simple. What do you normally do with something that just won't die? You stick it with a one-way ticket to someplace really unpleasant. In other words, a banishment. Preferably one cast at a God-level, which Zeke is quite capable of pulling off if Raven intervenes. Which he will - the only reason he hasn't done so sooner is because he was busy taking care of things on Earth. And Kyubei hasn't shown his face until very recently.
Most of the story is spent cleaning up the mess - dealing with the Witches and their Familiars, and settling things with the Magical Girls so they don't wind up turning into Witches themselves.
Yes, this is straying into the grim-dark territory, but with purpose of showing that someone is there to fix things, even if it doesn't exactly have a pretty bow on it.
"We've been fortunate. If Queen Beryl had any sense then her goal would have been achieved without anyone being the wiser until it was all over with. But this Kyubei creature... he wasn't really all that powerful. All he had going for him was some method of circumventing death. Whether or not that had something to do with his plans, we can't be sure of now. But what he really had was smarts. His one mistake was in coming to a world that Raven happened to have a very close eye on. That was our one saving grace. Otherwise, who knows how long Kyubei could have operated with no one being the wiser, or being able to stop him."
Thoughts? Suggestions? Scathing criticisms?
Sounds like the background plot of your rage based spoof story... alterZeke's life being a Black Hole of Suck there. The purpose of which is to make horrible things happen to and around alterZeke for the purpose of keeping things contained. Granted I've only heard about the existence of said series, because it was mention in one of the crossover threads.
Also, is it worth it for me to look at the last thread I was in? My motherboard apparently decided standby mode was the 'Staring Contest with Cthulu' time... It took a while to even figure out the issue and then I spent a month and a half lurking while I dealt with that.
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You might want to have a look. I have it tagged along with everything else, so it shouldn't be too tough to find.
Angryoptimist
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Considering the recent revelations in ep. 9 of Madoka Magica, just getting rid of Kyubei might not be enough, or even more difficult than just that. Turns out that Kyubei is representing one or more Sufficiently Advanced Alien civilizations/cultures who wish to exploit the magical girl-->witch transformations for infinite free energy. He probably just doesn't seem all that powerful due to saving energy, more than anything. In any case, it's very likely that his kind is powerful. Though I hope not so powerful as to be beyond a SuperWitch!Madoka's reach, as a SuperWitch!Madoka-goes-Unicron-on-their-ass end is probably the best we can hope for in the show at this point. Anyway, fighting them, depending on how the show portrays them in the next 3 episodes (if it does at all), could be a huge challenge for Zeke--it gives you, potentially, some pretty frightening antagonists to use.
That said, it seems like the biggest problems are the failings of the magical girls themselves. Every single one of them that's bit it/fallen so far has done so due to their own personal failings. Yes, even Mami. She absolutely refused to extend Homura any trust, who, granted, is not really the best with people--but even so. Even if she had simply compromised and, still refusing to just leave it to Homura, had allowed Homura to come along (NOT binding her on the spot), she'd probably still be alive.
From what I've read, I think Zeke might make a seriously positive mentor. So might the Senshi, for that matter--though I'm not sure how Puella Magi Madoka Magica style magical girls would react to the Senshi (specifically to learning that --might be a teeny bit of resentment/jealousy there).
Sorry for all the spoiler tags, but, well, spoilery spoilers are spoilery.
Two great tastes that go great together!
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Angryoptimist Wrote:From what I've read, I think Zeke might make a seriously positive mentor. So might the Senshi, for that matter--though I'm not sure how Puella Magi Madoka Magica style magical girls would react to the Senshi (specifically to learning that Spoiler [+]
the Senshi didn't have to become liches and take on The Corruption in order to be magical girls
--might be a teeny bit of resentment/jealousy there).
Sorry for all the spoiler tags, but, well, spoilery spoilers are spoilery. Well, the Senshi are, from a certain point of view. It's just that their phylacteries happen to be planets. -----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber." --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.
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No sweating the spoiler tags anymore, guys. I just added a spoiler tag to the thread heading, so those pesky little ones shouldn't be needed anymore.
Planets for phylacteries? Damn! That would actually explain quite a bit. Before I would think of it as the Senshi being avatars to the spirits of their worlds... but phylacteries makes more sense. Chosen from before birth, they are influenced from the very beginning and in all aspects - including their physical appearance. And it would also explain the ZOMG levels of power they at times exhibit.
And yes, the idea of Zeke, the Senshi, et al being mentors is part of the idea.
As for Kyubei's people... Well now! The more the merrier. And it sounds like it is something for TSAB to get involved in.
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IIRC, it goes into it in season 5. The Senshi's Star Seeds, which are essentially the crystallized form of their souls (and the 'resource' Galaxia is 'harvesting'), are also the Star Seeds of the planet that they are named for. Don't quote me on this, but if I am remembering this correctly...
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber." --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.
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A couple of random thoughts, one less serious than the other...
blackaeronaut Wrote:What do you normally do with something that just won't die? You stick it with a one-way ticket to someplace really unpleasant. In other words, a banishment. A Kyubei ("QB") Sack, then?
blackaeronaut Wrote:Most of the story is spent cleaning up the mess - dealing with the Witches and their Familiars, and settling things with the Magical Girls so they don't wind up turning into Witches themselves. Witches... Witches... "Witches 5", maybe?
We never did see Pharaoh 90, after all - maybe he was one of Kyubei's race, working at a distance rather than up close and personal? (Which would make the Daimons of Sailor Moon S the Witches' Familiars... but, again, Pharaoh 90 and Kyubei have somewhat different approaches, so the differences can be handwaved away.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Not quite. Sailor Moon has a fairly wide array of crystals that can be taken from humans. Each crystal seems to be a separate part of the wiring of humans on a mystic level. The Death Busters are after Pure Heart Crystals. The animal eyes are after Dream Mirrors. Galaxia Star Seeds. Most of the first series started with simple energy draining tricks... except the 7 shadows incidents.
Using a computer analogy, PHC are the cables/power conduits that connect the hard drive (soul/mind) to the rest of the computer hardware (body)... Withour the hard drive connected the computer goes into a holding pattern, then eventual turns off. This is a lethal thing eventually. Stronger people can last longer and in Venus' case she apparently has a back up as her reaction was to grab hers and run away wth it. The purpose of gathering these was to feed them to Mistress 9 and let her gain enough control over Saturn's body/gain enough power channelling ability to summon and End Boss. Heart Crystal in short, contect your mental ability scores to your body. PHC as really, really good quality ones.
Star Seeds are the bit on ones self that let you channel magic, or at least Senshi Magic. Manipulating these will let make magic using berserkers or have intelligent, zombie, magical girl slaves. In computer terms, its the part of the mother board that connect external video and sound card. Most of us only have PC sound and graphics. Galaxia's youma are people who get overclocked and over powered cards slapped in. This is not a good thing for said motherboard.
Dream Mirrors are basically externalized monitors that hack into your hard drive and see your video collection (dreams). Annoying and possibly a form of rape... but ultimately not dangerous as far as magical girl enemies are. The point of getting those was to find a pedosus hiding in one of those folders and not harvesting anything in particular. A manhunt rather than resource gathering. Still soul part manipulation magic though... which is what I use as a qualifier to tell if a series is a magical girl one or not.
Which brings us to the last part of may first paragraphs examples: The 7 shadows and SM's shiny rock of magic Justice and Love. As far as I can tell, the 7 Shadows got sealled by breaking up the SRLJ and it got used as a series of artifical Heart Crystals. Which would explain why it took so long for everyone to get reincarnated... it took forever and a millenium to reformat them and get everyone reborn. The SRLJ had to brute force the proper drivers in and this is why they were normal power level youma and not hulking juggernauts of powerful power. Also the kit bashed nature of the drivers explains why they got civilian powers... which are apparently genetic... which means that Jadeite loses at the airport, because he got driven over by the third generation, overwritten drivers that drove the over running forces tertiary head drivers of the driving force behind the force running of the over running of the over head rulers. That or tech support finally managed to get get back at Jadeite for firing a third of their staff for reasons of reducing overhead.
Okay now that that is out of my system. So in short Jorlem... Galaxia, like most of Sailor Moons rogue gallery, is only harvesting parts of their souls. More connective tissue that organ meats.
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I don't have access to my scans of the manga right now, but according to the Sailor Moon wiki, Quote:Each planetary body in the galaxy was represented by its own Star Seed, and the Sailor Senshi of that planet was its carrier.
Normal people have weak Seeds, that can't survive out of their bodies without turning dark. Reminds me a bit of the hearts in Kingdom Hearts, to be honest.
Also, I remember an episode of S when a victim of the week woke up without her PHC, and was acting very strange, counter to her normal personality. I'll take another look when I have my things in front of me, and think things through again.
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber." --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.
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It sounds like star seeds may also be linker cores in the Nanoha parlance.
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They kinda resemble each other, don't they? At least if I'm recalling correctly... aren't they both cruciform crystalline structures, kinda like the shape of jacks?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Jorlem Wrote:Also, I remember an episode of S when a victim of the week woke up without her PHC, and was acting very strange, counter to her normal personality. I'll take another look when I have my things in front of me, and think things through again. Of course you remember that episode! How could you possibly forget the episode with Doorknobder?
(Although I'm surprised that you forgot the victim was Minako...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
paladindythe
Unregistered
I need to take a break from my Project anyways.
Let's see. If you want to include Puella Magi, you're going to have to see how it fits in, since it brings in Cosmic Horror to your story.
- The aliens represented by Kyubei could be very powerful, as they can alter reality to grant "any miracle" a perspective girl wishes. It kinda left open ended as to whether the act of transforming a girl into a Puella Magi "empowers" the wish or if it's an exchange with the wish provided by the aliens. If it's the latter, then you're basically facing Lovecraftian gods. If it's the former, then their power is rather limited.
- The girls who become Puella Magi cannot be restored. This supports the transformation empowers the wish stand: basically nothing short of McGuffin power can restore them. And even if they could be restored, wouldn't that undo the wish? I'm thinking that the best that could be done for them is to stabilize their Soul Gems, preventing their eventual demise. That's best case--worst case is that you have a group of eldritch horrors to deal with, and sorrowful memories of who they once were...
- With other extraterrestial powers in play, why are Kyubei's... people targetting Earth. It can't be because no one else has emotions, since we know better. My bet: Earth is a soft target--they find out about the Senshi and TSAB later.... hmm In a way, it's like the first main arc of Sailor Moon, written large. Heck a single spawned witch could empower one of the Big Baddies from Sailor Moon. That would be a switch--someone else takes out a witch, and Kyubei decides to figure out who's moving in on his territory.
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robkelk Wrote:Jorlem Wrote:Also, I remember an episode of S when a victim of the week woke up without her PHC, and was acting very strange, counter to her normal personality. I'll take another look when I have my things in front of me, and think things through again.
Of course you remember that episode! How could you possibly forget the episode with Doorknobder?
(Although I'm surprised that you forgot the victim was Minako...) *Digs around a bit.* Actually, no. The episode I was referring to is #94, with the vacuum cleaner daimon. Its the episode Shadowjack will be doing next, incidentally, so I won't go into too much detail.
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Bob: since no one's said otherwise yet, let's go ahead and run with that assumption.
Paladindythe: Welcome back! Going by the numbers...
- I'm figuring that his people would be upstarts - they're not Lovecraftian Gods, but who is to say that it doesn't figure into their theology? So, they go out into the wide open multi-verse, eldritch little horrors empowered by whatever eldritch Power That Is... and they're gonna find that some people have teeth.
- Agreed that they can't be reverted and that there should be a way of safely stabilizing them to the point where bouts of depression won't eventually push them over the edge.
- I'm actually starting to wonder if it should be Earth this takes place on. The architecture is damn-near out-of-this-world. Given the ultra-modern looks, I figure that maybe this should take place on a TSAB Administered World that, while technologically advanced, has few mages (much like the canonical Nonadministrative World 97). Things start to take a different course when the authorities notice some weird shit is going on, so they call on TSAB. TSAB sees this is weird for even them, so they call on their resident experts on weird: Zeke and his band of merry misfits, and hand the situation over with a bow tied around it.
On item number 2, this is gonna lead to an interesting conundrum... What happens
when their bodies eventually wear out and die? If their souls are
effectively trapped then is there a safe way to release the soul without
destroying it? And if not then it would be a hell of a thing (pun not
intended) to leave them like that. My thoughts on the matter is that in
a way they have paid the ultimate price for their wish: immortality. I
could see that at the end of their natural lives they would all have
golems built for them to use and they become vassals of Zeke's clan,
caring for, protecting, and instructing young Darkwoods - especially the
ones that have been Marked by Raven. They will be sad reminders to be careful of who and what you deal with.
"Raven can look out for you, my child, but his protection will always fail against misguided stupidity."
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I don't see any particular reason for their bodies to wear out and die. Sayaka was mentioned as having an exceptional healing factor for a Puella Magi, indicating that they do all regenerate, just not as fast. Also, given that you don't have to worry about killing them during treatment and TSAB medical technology, oyur ability to repair them is just about unlimited.
paladindythe
Unregistered
Hmm. Well, by my first point, I meant that if they (Kyubei's people) *grant* wishes in exchange for turning a girl into a Puella Magi, that means they're effectively reality warpers who places arbitrary limits on themselves for whatever purpose they're pursuing, and part of that is matching the girls power to the wish. I keep forgetting that you haven't watched it yet...
Your relocation of events makes sense, but I kinda like the idea of Negaverse getting loads of energy from a spawned witch. It ties together some of the disparate story elements you have, IMO.
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Not having seen any of Madoka, I am of course speculating out of complete ignorance, but what if Metallia is/was one of these eldritch horror witches?
-- Bob
---------
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...and my shoes began to squeak.
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She's not Terry Gilliam-animated enough. 
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
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Jinx999 Wrote:I don't see any particular reason for their bodies to wear out and die. Sayaka was mentioned as having an exceptional healing factor for a Puella Magi, indicating that they do all regenerate, just not as fast. Also, given that you don't have to worry about killing them during treatment and TSAB medical technology, [your] ability to repair them is just about unlimited. Interesting. Well, at any rate they could still play out the role I have in mind for them in the epilogue.
Quote:paladindythe wrote:
Hmm. Well, by my first point, I meant that if they (Kyubei's people)
*grant* wishes in exchange for turning a girl into a Puella Magi, that
means they're effectively reality warpers who places arbitrary limits on
themselves for whatever purpose they're pursuing, and part of that is
matching the girls power to the wish. I keep forgetting that you
haven't watched it yet...
Your relocation of events makes sense, but I
kinda like the idea of Negaverse getting loads of energy from a spawned
witch. It ties together some of the disparate story elements you have,
IMO.
Yep, I'm gonna have to sit down and watch it, aren't I?
Quote:Bob Schroeck wrote:
Not having seen any of Madoka, I am of course speculating out of complete ignorance, but what if Metallia is/was one of these eldritch horror witches?
That remains to be seen yet... literally. (x_x)
Quote:Foxboy wrote:
She's not Terry Gilliam-animated enough.
*Snrk!* What, and risk her derezzing on account of the animator having a sudden heart attack?
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It's a direct shout out to the method the director chose to make the Witch-space visually "Non-Euclidean," a severe animation mismatch. Not much of a spoiler, it's right in the first episode.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
paladindythe
Unregistered
Actually, episode 10 opens things up a lot, as Homura's perspective on things is shown. She took a few levels in badass to get where she is.
Kurogane put up a nice set of timeline notes:
Quote:TIMELINE 1 (ORIGINAL TIMELINE)
Mami and Madoka are Puella Magi, they save Homura at first.
No sign of Kyoko or Sayaka appearing as Puella Magi
Mami dies fighting Walpurgis, Madoka sacrifices herself to defeat it. ? Madoka doesn’t turn in to a Witch after death.
Homura contracts with Kyubey in the aftermath ? Homura’s Wish: Redo her meeting with Madoka until she is able to protect her.
TIMELINE 2
Homura wakes up right before she leaves hospital (Start Point) ? Homura has congenital heart disease
Mami and Madoka are Puella Magi.
Homura helps with Witch hunting with Mami and Madoka. ? Still very dojikko at this stage  ? learns the basics of her time stop
skill.
No sign of Kyoko or Sayaka Puella Magi
Madoka turns in to Giant Witch after defeating Walpurgis. ? Homura discovers the real truth of the Soul Gem system.
TIMELINE 3
START POINT ? Homura discovers Kyubey’s lies.
Sayaka and Kyoko appear as Puella Magi this time. ? Sayaka doesn’t believe Homura’s revelations of the Soul Gem system. ? Doesn’t like
Homura.
Homura upgrades her arsenal.
Sayaka turns in to a Witch. ? Homura kills Witch Sayaka ? Proves Puella Magi turn in to Witches.
Mami goes berserk, kills Kyoko ? Madoka kills Mami to defend Homura.
Madoka and Homura face Walpurgisnacht together
Both of them win together, but Madoka saves Homura from turning in to a Witch with a secret Grief Seed stash. ? Homura
shoots Madoka (at her request) before she becomes the Giant Witch.
Homura returns again.
TIMELINE 4
START POINT ? Homura hunts Kyubey down before it approaches Madoka
Homura hunts all the Witches alone, no sign of Mami. ? Fuck yeah machine gun Homura!
Walpurgisnacht(WN) appears ? Episode 1's prologue part happens ? Homura can’t handle it alone.
Madoka accepts Kyubey’s Contract ? Destroys WN in one shot ? becomes Giant Witch
Kyubey – energy collection is finished after Madoka changes to Giant Witch, leaves it to Humanity to deal with it. Implies Madoka will destroy Earth
any how.
Homura returns again.
TIMELINE 5
CURRENT
TIMELINE
Okay.. this is starting to go into, You Fail Logic Forever territory... Your putting Zeke and Co. in this already... which means Usagi is the there. Usagi who carries the Shiney Rock of Love and Justice. Which has canon powers like... curing members of the Black Moon family. That got their powers from a cosmic monkey's paw horror (The Doom Phantom), that does to them exactly what you've been describing... though there was also much in the way of hormones and vengence, to go with the depression (and the time travel thing)... Usagi fixes the 4 sisters and they keep their powers. She does the same for the Doom Tree idiots. The 7 shadows reincarnations, those Galaxia warps, etc.. etc...
Seriosly, SM's cast is actually trained to deal with this kind of thing. As plot hooks have the problem come up at one of Mr. Invador's parties and a TSAB contact discusing random problem areas. The Oni are a large area, space faring race with interdimensional capablities after all. Neptune is actually a magic capable society with interdimsional tech. That is at least two groups in Zekeverse that can recomend Zeke and Co. They have in demand, highly marketable skills. Realistcally the SRLJ is on par with at least the combined might of the jewel seeds... and at least for Usagi, safer and faster to recharge.
Seriously, while the TSAB may have little clue how to deal with this kind of thing, so if they do degrade after a while maay end up on life support equivalents. However, they will likely have corruption issues verses Usagi... as in if they are too far gone mentally and ethically... they won't be healed... they'll be erased. Other than that, side effect include: getting over yourself, temporary emotional effects similar to getting dunked positively charge ectoplasm, and a compulsion to stare like a deer in headlights and exclaim 'Lovely'.
Seriously, Sailor Moon is a Apex Predator of those kind of things. Sailor Moon offs cosmic horrors professionally. Moon and Saturn are basically cosmic horrors in their own way.
paladindythe
Unregistered
Since we're spoiling things here anyways, someone did a nice timeline(s) chart: (gosh it's huge...)
![[Image: Ep10_timeline_chart.jpg]](http://images.puella-magi.net.nyud.net/5/56/Ep10_timeline_chart.jpg)
(Edit by Bob: Well,. whaddaya know. The image object has sizing handles when I edit the message. Resized to approximately 750 w by 1500 h, which seems to be about the right proportions. Paladindythe, maybe you should provide a link to the full-sized image and replace this with a (giant's) thumbnail.)
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![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
Spoiler
