Favorite Bad Authors

[robkelk]

So, up to about chapter 22 in that Icemaidens story of Freds... Dammit, he's at it again. Silly but fun concept being ruined by surprise lesbian Voldemort harem.

As in, a harem of lesbian Voldemorts. That want a ten-year old Harry.

Dammit Fred.

Why are you surprised? This is like being surprised at pigeons in a John Woo movie, or a body count in a Tomino anime...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Pyeknu]

I have to admit that when I first caught up with this discussion thread a few weeks ago, I got very upset.
As I noted to ECSNorway in another discussion thread, I don't visit this site often . . . and to be frank, I didn't look into this site AT ALL for several years after I was forced to leave Korea and return to Canada in 2005.  As some might know, I had a tonne of real life issues to deal with; diabetes, looking for a job and trying to stay healthy.
After taking a chance to cool down a bit, I realised that a lot of people have made good points about a lot of stuff I've written in the past.  To be honest, when I look at some of the early stuff I wrote, I feel pretty embarrassed at times.

[Bob Schroeck]

That was a point I tried to make late in the thread, that you have grown as a writer over the past ten years -- possibly more than I have in some ways. You have your preoccupations when it comes to subject matter and plot development, but don't we all? I mean, quite honestly, nothing you do is any worse than or any different from, say, the late Jack Chalker's interminable obsession with body-switching and gender-changing in his novels. And my initial comments in the original post were indeed skewed heavily by your late 1990s-early 2000s work -- many of which, may I please note, I keep in my "old favorites to frequently reread" archive that lives on several different devices for easy access regardless of what hardware I'm using.

I hope, by the way, that this thread wasn't why you scuttled "The Loon and the Ladies from Avalon". If so, I apologize thoroughly.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

That was a point I tried to make late in the thread, that you have grown as a writer over the past ten years -- possibly more than I have in some ways. You have your preoccupations when it comes to subject matter and plot development, but don't we all? I mean, quite honestly, nothing you do is any worse than or any different from, say, the late Jack Chalker's interminable obsession with body-switching and gender-changing in his novels. And my initial comments in the original post were indeed skewed heavily by your late 1990s-early 2000s work -- many of which, may I please note, I keep in my "old favorites to frequently reread" archive that lives on several different devices for easy access regardless of what hardware I'm using.

I hope, by the way, that this thread wasn't why you scuttled "The Loon and the Ladies from Avalon". If so, I apologize thoroughly.

Admittedly, it was, Bob.  And I both accept your apology and apologise in turn for asking you to remove TLatLfA from the site.
To better explain what happened, I refer you to an interview that Steve "Nightman" Cornett did with Mike Smith and I over the Internet for the Chicken Ball Award concerning TSY while I was still in Korea.  Here's something I said about what happened to me during my first job while I was in Soul:
Nightman: UY-TSY started out as Classic UY, and then was rewritten in its
present form. Who decided to rewrite the series, how did that decision come
about?

Mike: The original title just sort of appeared because we couldn't think of
something better to call the series. It was Fred who decided to change the
title and rewrite parts of the series. He had done some surveys on the Net and
found a lot of people didn't like what we were doing, so he took some of the
more serious concerns and changed things accordingly.

Fred: Well, actually, I didn't do "surveys" as Mike said.

When I was working in Seoul, I was cut off from Net access (this was just before
the big PC-game room explosion that's come across Korea in recent years) for a
while. Patrick Vera, a reader from the Philippines, kept me somewhat in contact
with the Net. Finally, I discovered a local Internet café which was just a
subway ride away from the Tuson Academy, so I got a new Net account and was
pretty much back in business.

At that time, I learned that while I had been off the Net, a lot of readers of
our stories had chatted about it between each other and had come up with a lot
of criticisms about the series as it had run. Those comments were brought up to
me by another reader, Sean Gaffney. And hearing these sorts of things, my
friend, I have to say, royally pissed me right off.

This is my big bugbear about writing fanfics. Night, you know this as well as
we do. We do this because we enjoy doing this and want other people to enjoy
reading it. That's why we want to get comments and criticisms from our readers.
If people have a problem with what we've done, tell us about it for Lyna's sake!
And not wanting to tell we, the writers, about it, but at the same time telling
other people about it and spreading all sorts of biased opinions about some
stories, really hits me the wrong way.

Anyhow! (breathes out)

Once I took a few cold showers, I looked over what was said, then picked out
things I agreed with, then started reworking some of the scenes. At the same
time, I decided I wanted to rework the "Tiger Saga" storyline (Sakura's Class
Reunion, Arrive Reiko-chan, Tag Race Mark Three, The Return of Koosei Ryooki and
Spirit-War Tomobiki plus Together The Outland) to better reflect the idea that
in spite of what happened in Enter Space-Hybrid Hazel that starts things off,
Ataru's and Lum's feelings for each other don't fall apart, but begin to grow
stronger. In essence, the story where the "break" between them happens (Ataru's
First Girlfriend: Arrive Windy-chan) comes much later, but by then, they've
gone through the Spirit War and realize that no matter want, they want this to
work out.

By the time I got back to Canada, I'd convinced Mike to go along with it.
Around this time, the title of the series was changed to UY-TSY. Looking at it,
that was a logical decision.
The whole interview can be found here, BTW:  http://www.rakhal.com/cb/nightman.txt
Put simply, when I read through this thread, it reminded me of the shock and anger I felt back in late 1996 when I was in Soul and getting connected back to the Internet.  Much that I understand deep down that what I write may not chime with people, what I - and I'm sure others feel this way - don't like is experiencing the feeling of people "talking" behind my back.
And as I stated before, I didn't visit your site at all for a few years after I came back to Canada, so I couldn't know what others were saying.  How would you feel if someone did that to you?

[zojojojo]

another author to throw on this pile is tenhawk... his xander-centric buffy crossovers are lots of fun, and even reasonably internally consistent (even as he trends towards souper xander!) ... but he makes no effort to have his spelling or grammar checked, and since he's started publishing real books (hopefully he found a spell checker and beta reader for those, at least), his output has declined drastically...
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[Bob Schroeck]

what I - and I'm sure others feel this way - don't like is experiencing the feeling of people "talking" behind my back.

The thing is, Fred, that's almost the only way people can talk about written works. Places like here and the EPU Forums where the reader interacts directly with the author(s), they're rare even now, and ten-fifteen years ago? Unheard of. Yes, there was the FFML, but it existed for feedback -- it was essentially a floating writers' workshop before it became little more than a distribution channel. Outside of places like that, well, commentary that isn't shared with the author is the rule. whether you're a fan writer or a pro. People will have opinions on what they read, and will talk to others about them, and they're allowed to. And unless you have the resources of the NSA you can't possibly listen in on all those discussions and monitor all those opinions.

That's something I learned back in college, actually -- an important part of becoming a writer is realizing and really understanding that once you release a work into the world, it isn't just yours anymore. It belongs as much to the readers as to you, and you can't take that back, and you can't force the readers to behave the way you want, where and when you want. The most successful works are dynamic collaborations between the imagination of the writer and the imaginations of the readers, but in order to achieve that, you have to let your work go to wander the world where it will, like a child leaving home for the first time. You may not approve of the company it keeps, or their opinions, or where it ends up living -- but you can no more yank a released story back and say "my interpretation, my vision only" any more than you can drag an adult child back home and make them stay in their room. All you can do is celebrate the good, ignore the bad, and keep working and growing.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

what I - and I'm sure others feel this way - don't like is experiencing the feeling of people "talking" behind my back.

The thing is, Fred, that's almost the only way people can talk about written works. Places like here and the EPU Forums where the reader interacts directly with the author(s), they're rare even now, and ten-fifteen years ago? Unheard of. Yes, there was the FFML, but it existed for feedback -- it was essentially a floating writers' workshop before it became little more than a distribution channel. Outside of places like that, well, commentary that isn't shared with the author is the rule. whether you're a fan writer or a pro. People will have opinions on what they read, and will talk to others about them, and they're allowed to. And unless you have the resources of the NSA you can't possibly listen in on all those discussions and monitor all those opinions.

That's something I learned back in college, actually -- an important part of becoming a writer is realizing and really understanding that once you release a work into the world, it isn't just yours anymore. It belongs as much to the readers as to you, and you can't take that back, and you can't force the readers to behave the way you want, where and when you want. The most successful works are dynamic collaborations between the imagination of the writer and the imaginations of the readers, but in order to achieve that, you have to let your work go to wander the world where it will, like a child leaving home for the first time. You may not approve of the company it keeps, or their opinions, or where it ends up living -- but you can no more yank a released story back and say "my interpretation, my vision only" any more than you can drag an adult child back home and make them stay in their room. All you can do is celebrate the good, ignore the bad, and keep working and growing.

Yeah, I suppose that's true.  And I have tried to accept that over the years, hard as it's honestly been for me to do just that.
Still, there have been the people who have taken the effort to comment on my works.  I have appreciated those comments a lot . . . so when things like the situation I mentioned previously does happen, I've always wondered to myself, "If they've got a problem with this, why don't they write me directly?"
Ah, well . . . back to finishing off the next part of Children of Oki-shima . . .

[Bob Schroeck]

I've always wondered to myself, "If they've got a problem with this, why don't they write me directly?"

Well, in my case, it was mostly because your quirks really didn't ruin my enjoyment, and there were no real structural problems that made it difficult to read your work. (Unlike, say, someone with no grasp of grammar or spelling.) I've mostly given up on offering unsolicited commentary to people because of several other reasons as well. First, I've not given all the solicited commentary I've been asked for (sorry, JBern -- among others -- if you're reading this). Second when I did offer unsolicited comments and advice to people long ago in the past, it was to people who both really needed it and didn't want it *coughcough*skysaber*coughcough* and made the latter abundantly clear when they bothered to reply at all. Nowadays, if a fic is too screwed up, I don't try to help the author, I just dump it in the circular file. And if it's not at that level, I enjoy it for as long as it lasts or I can, whichever comes first.

Now, in regards to "The Loon and the Ladies etc.", regardless of what I thought of some of the technical aspects of your earlier work, I took it as an immense compliment that you wanted to play in my sandbox, and I was more than delighted to welcome you in. If you ever change your mind about abandoning it, I will be here with open arms welcoming you back.

(Oh, and in regards to some of that earlier work of yours? I would gladly pay you money to see more of "Lonely Hearts".)
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

Now, in regards to "The Loon and the Ladies etc.", regardless of what I thought of some of the technical aspects of your earlier work, I took it as an immense compliment that you wanted to play in my sandbox, and I was more than delighted to welcome you in. If you ever change your mind about abandoning it, I will be here with open arms welcoming you back.

(Oh, and in regards to some of that earlier work of yours? I would gladly pay you money to see more of "Lonely Hearts".)

Don't you mean Lonely Souls? ^_-
Well, speaking of that particular story - and I don't recall if I've told you this already; if I have, I apologise - I've considered going back and doing a re-do of some elements of the story.  Get rid of the Nendo-kata aspect (not that it had such a bad impact on that story) and emphasise the Avalonian aspect of things, plus de-emphasise the whole 9/11-based emphasis that starts it off.
Then again, I might just proceed ahead as I planned beforehand.  We'll see.
As for Doug visiting the Phoenix From the Ashes universe, we'll see.  Right now, I'm doing a revamping of having the Battle Royale cast show up a bit earlier time-wise than Avalonians and Questors, I still have to finish off the re-working of PFtA in The Children of Oki-shima, do another add-on to Wizards and Avalonians showing Inada Mizuho going back-to-back with Abraham Lincoln on Azkaban Island as they proceed to wipe out a battalion's worth of daywalker vampires, possibly revamp the Avalonians at Hinata-so side-story while NOT turning it into a bash-fest of the Hinata girls, and then fix up A&Q . . .!
*sigh* Work's never done . . .

[Bob Schroeck]

Don't you mean Lonely Souls? ^_-

Damn. You saw that before I got home from work and fixed it.

*sigh* Work's never done . . .

Tell me about it!
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

LOL!

[Seraviel]

I'll add myself to the list, as Angel of Snapdragons.

I really wish I could do better, but the last three updates to my main fics have been spaced a year apart from each other... Something they shouldn't be, in regards to their lengths. I actually often hate myself for not being able to do more.

I will though second Bob's request for more Lonely Souls, and the difficulty of getting valid comments. I would gladly pay to have someone here in the city of Montreal who could actually comment on what is good and what is bad in my ideas, writing and plot, and to bounce ideas off. The review on FF.net are good but not equal to having an actual discusion with a person.

Just my two cents.

-Seraviel
-People may die, but ideas are forever. Je suis Charlie.

[Pyeknu]

As I told Bob, my friend, we'll have to wait and see.

[Proginoskes]

Nendo-Kata stuff is always at least a guilty pleasure for me, and some world-building (race-building?) you've done around them is fascinating. So please don't nuke the old versions of whatever you rewrite.

[Bob Schroeck]

I second Prog on that -- the Nendo-Kata by themselves are a great idea and a wonderful concept, well-executed with a believable culture and history. I think you should use them a bit more sparingly, though -- they're a big enough device that their arrival in the story should be part of the point of the story, as in Phoenix From The Ashes (or whatever the right title is -- the continuation of "The Bet: Crippled" you wrote).
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

I second Prog on that -- the Nendo-Kata by themselves are a great idea and a wonderful concept, well-executed with a believable culture and history. I think you should use them a bit more sparingly, though -- they're a big enough device that their arrival in the story should be part of the point of the story, as in Phoenix From The Ashes (or whatever the right title is -- the continuation of "The Bet: Crippled" you wrote).

Well, the original 2000 version of that story was Like A Phoenix From the Grave, which was done in a pretty heavy-handed manner when it came to people like Genma and Nodoka.  When I looked at it a couple years ago, I had to seriously wince at some of the things I did, so I reworked the whole plot to create the modern Phoenix From the Ashes.
In it, I did away with the Nendo-kata sub-plot altogether and brought in the Avalonians wholesale.  Also, I made it a three-way crossover between Ranma 1/2, Urusei Yatsura and Ikkitosen, thus allowing me to bring characters such as Moroboshi Hiromi AKA Ryuko Kyorei into play.
I also introduced Genma's mother Hayashi Chiaki and the idea of he and Nodoka agreeing to a "pre-marital agreement" which made them vow that they would raise any children of theirs "properly"…and not "honourably."  This, of course, would throw Nodoka off-kilter right from the get-go; Chiaki would "welcome back" Ranma (and his new sisters, Kikuko and Miiko AKA Ryuen Kunro) into the Hayashi family.  I also brought in other ideas such as Nodoka being actually part-American (inspired from Suikoden One-half by MadHat886).
There are a tonne of other things, too.

[ECSNorway]

I believe I read the new version on Anime Addventure, or something related to it. That was what prompted me to go back and seek out your earlier works to find out where some of the background concepts (like the Avalonians) were coming from.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm going to have to look for that new version now; I wasn't really aware you'd rewritten it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

Right here, Bob:  http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6740104/1/P ... -The-Ashes

[Bob Schroeck]

Cool. Right into FFD and direct to a MOBI file for my Kindle. Thanks!
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

No problem.  BTW, PFtA is not totally complete just yet — there are 59 parts so far — but there have been side-stories added:
Let Us Have Peace (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8558763/1/Let-Us-Have-Peace) takes off from PFtA Part 48; it explains what happens to one of the villains of PFtA after he's taken down (one part and complete).
Wizards and Avalonians (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8662896/1/W ... Avalonians), a Harry Potter crossover that takes off after PFtA Part 55, which explores what happens when British wizards find out that the "muggles" now have starships of all things; H.M.S. Hood flew over Diagon Alley on its way to being commissioned by HRH Prince Charles in PFtA.  Harry Potter — atop dealing with two would-be wives (Pansy Parkinson and Mandy Brocklehurst) plus an effectively-comatose Nymphadora Tonks-Lupin years after the Battle of Hogwarts — has to keep the lid on a potential backlash on the Avalonians (two parts, work in progress).
The Children of Oki-shima (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8774497/1/T ... -Oki-shima), a crossover with Battle Royale and the first true sequel to PFtA.  Niphentaxian fans of BR — prompted by a gay boy who wanted a version of Tsukioka Sho — made use of an ancient Sagussan weapon to literally bring the Shiroiwa class into a world where The Program never existed.  Now another fan of BR named Moroboshi Ataru has to deal with his favourite manga characters brought to life…especially since his favourite character of all, Inada Mizuho — now master of the Staff of Gihan — wants to become his bond-mate! (eight parts with Part 9 coming in next two days, work in progress)

[Pyeknu]

I believe I read the new version on Anime Addventure, or something related to it. That was what prompted me to go back and seek out your earlier works to find out where some of the background concepts (like the Avalonians) were coming from.

FYI, the original version of Hiromi appeared in the Faking It - Great Guardians storyline at the Addventure.  I later updated her in the Restart Deluge:  The Emperor's Army storyline.  After that, the final version of Hiromi made her debut in Phoenix From the Ashes.

[Star Ranger4]

For what its worth, I liked the whole twist about a certain Dr H. Jones being part of Ranma's family tree. I *ESPECIALLY* like what you did with Happosai, I can understand and relate to your take on him a great deal more than other takes, even ms Takachi's
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Pyeknu]

For what its worth, I liked the whole twist about a certain Dr H. Jones being part of Ranma's family tree. I *ESPECIALLY* like what you did with Happosai, I can understand and relate to your take on him a great deal more than other takes, even ms Takachi's

Glad you enjoyed it, Ranger.  That was one of the better improvements I made between the original and new versions of this story, I believe.
As for Ranma's relation to Indiana Jones, I really liked the idea MadHat886 came up with in his story and how that would severely affected Nodoka's sense of what is honourable and proper in life.  It's a pity that Suikoden 1/2 eventually disintegrated into a "plot going nowhere, crossover overload" situation.  I like multiple crossovers a lot myself as note all the people who guest star in PFtA, but he needed to learn how to keep it from overwhelming the storyline.

[Bob Schroeck]

Wasn't there some kind of round-robin on the FFML many years ago in which Ranma used the wishing sword to get everyone's mothers back, and because of a typical slapstick stampede all the girls thought he had melted away to power the wish when he'd actually been rescued by his own mother? And in it Nodoka was the (great?)grand-daughter of Indiana Jones -- was that something you contributed? Hm. Let me go see if it's in my archives.

Okay, found it, and found it on ff.net: "When You Wish Upon A Sword", written by Metroanime, Skysaber, and White Pheonix. So no, it was not you (unless you were White Pheonix, and not, as I suspect, Skysaber). And yet another potentially good story that stalled out.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.