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I Got A Good Review...
06-13-2012, 04:00 AM
I'm sure most of you know about my eternally-incomplete Fanfic Writer's Guide (if you don't, it's here). Well, in looking at the site statistics tonight, I stumbled across this blog, which has some very nice things to say about it:
Quote:Want to learn how to write, and write well? Read this. Shamelessly taken from the Solar Flare Review group, it touches off on some minor fanfiction points pertaining to anime and books, but otherwise is a very solid general guide on how to write fanfiction.
For any fledgling author, that guide will explain loads of things to you that I only know works because I 'know' it does on some whimsical memory.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Can't believe that I've never read that.
Man, I must really irritate you . . ..
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Why would that irritate me?
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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No, I think he means he fears his writings irritate YOU because of the number of 'rules' he manages to break.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children
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I can add that I appreciate the guide very much. I've already made edits to my own fanfiction based on the advice in there, and I think it's stronger because of it. Now if I could just get off of that other business long enough to finish the first story, it would be great. (55K so far, still in the second act).
-- ∇×V
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Star Ranger4 Wrote:No, I think he means he fears his writings irritate YOU because of the number of 'rules' he manages to break. Ding!
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Ah.
Can I sheepishly admit now that I was unaware you wrote, Mark? If you could, please point me at your work and I'll rectify my ignorance.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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If it matters any, Bob, I've been throwing links to that guide around since I first discovered it... years ago, I think. A long time, at any rate.
And trying to apply it in my own work, what little I manage to produce these days 
It was, and remains, good stuff. Thanks for sharing it.
--sofaspud
-- "Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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Thank you, Spud.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Love it
06-14-2012, 08:24 PM
Hey Bob,
That is a great read; I am sorry I have missed it up to this point.
I am also going to start using the term asspull on a more regular basis; what a lovely description and so versatile.
Shayne
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Can I sheepishly admit now that I was unaware you wrote, Mark? If you could, please point me at your work and I'll rectify my ignorance. Well, keep in mind I'm not a fanfic writer. Until I came here I had a very negative view of most fanfics (my previous exposure was mostly to fan-girl "slash" fics or "Mary Sue" author-insert stories). Most of the stuff I've written was game-fic (fiction as it pertains to our pen & paper RPG games. Be it history or interludes) until a recent hard-drive failure . . . culminating in the eradication of a huge swath of my previous work. I keep my DAZ stuff backed up, not my stories. The two stories I still have good, archival copies of . . . one I know you've read and the other, well, it's not for family consumption (Poor Carmen has had a hard life).
I'm checking with a couple of my old gamers to see if they have anything.
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Quote:one I know you've read
I have? Care to refresh my pointer, as it's not coming to mind?
Oh, and Shayne? Thanks. I didn't originate "asspull", I got it from TVTropes, which apparently got it from somewhere else, IIRC.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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I actually read that guide (more like the closest thing to a Fanfiction Writing Bible), and I'd just like to say it's excellent.
In fact, I'd love to go back in time to when I wrote my very first fanfic and demand my younger self memorize the contents before he ever bothered to begin writing a rather tepid comedy piece on an obscure PS1 role playing game whose name escapes me at present.
I can't say my very first story was an old shame, but I'm sure with that advice in my head it would've been a lot better.
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I am currently dealing with an individual who has somehow confused the word 'implementation' with the word 'asspull' - and while I love the phrase 'He pulled it from his arse and waved it about like a fine Cuban cigar and seemed genuinely surprised that no one was in a hurry to light it'; asspull conveys much of the same sentiment and has a Spartan, taciturn 'molon labe' vibe to it.
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Speaking of the Fanfic Writer's Guide... Today's Dork Tower has something that you might want to add to Stupid Writer Tricks. Not sure what to call it - maybe "Sauce for the Goose" or "Women's Lib", but neither of those sound right to me...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Oh, good idea. Definitely goes under Stupid Writer Tricks.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Okay, so I'm ranting, too.
06-16-2012, 08:01 AM
While I agree in a general sense, I disagree with their execution and implications.
The comic is an ad absurdum argument, which is hilarious, but their logic fails.
First off, sexual assault is a very serious issue. But, it’s also a real issue, and should never be put away or chided simply because it causes discomfort. It bothers me when people treat it like a taboo subject and don’t deal with it like the adults we’re masquerading as.
But their specific example falls utterly short of anything other than a rant.
When you apply the idea of sexual assault against Mario, sure it’s stupid and ridiculous. But, he’s a cartoon character. Lara Croft was cartoony because that’s how they could do the graphics back then—she was always supposed to represent a real person. That would be like having a sexual assault scenario for Pac Man. That’s like comparing My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic to Urotsukidoji—because, hey, all animation is for kids! (I did get my copy of Kite, Ninja Scroll and La Blue Girl from Suncoast, from their kid’s section.)
If we apply their logic, we need to apply it to a similar, male, character from the same era . . . which is, sadly, lacking. But MonkeyFist gives me an excellent, modern, example: Nathan Drake from the Uncharted franchise. Is it so absurd that someone would sexually assault him? How about Isaac Clark from the Dead Space franchise or how about Jack, from BioShock?
The better way of putting is:
“If there is more than one way to get a specific character development, take the less-rapey one. Unless that’s what you’re looking for.”
I have a story where the main character spends a good deal of time getting raped and dealing with the emotional ramifications. But, it’s not about “sex” it’s about people exerting power over her because they can. It is an examination of how the character deals with their “life” and how to deal with the events.
Poor Carmen is a very messed up girl.
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Mark Skarr Wrote:(I did get my copy of Kite, Ninja Scroll and La Blue Girl from Suncoast, from their kid’s section.) *Gasp* O_O
Man, that must have been waaaaaayyyyyy back in the day when people were bringing their little critters in to movie theaters to see Akira because it was an animated feature. Wonder how many of those people actually sat through it with their kids, and if they did whether it was out of horrified fascination or they just didn't see the problem with it...
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Mark Skarr Wrote:... When you apply the idea of sexual assault against Mario, sure it’s stupid and ridiculous. But, he’s a cartoon character. Lara Croft was cartoony because that’s how they could do the graphics back then—she was always supposed to represent a real person. That would be like having a sexual assault scenario for Pac Man. That’s like comparing My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic to Urotsukidoji—because, hey, all animation is for kids! ...
I do see where you're coming from. I'm not sure whether it applies in this case.
John Kovalic is a cartoonist by trade and by hobby. He might not make the distinction between "cartoon character" and "realistic character" that we 3-D modelers make.
More importantly, the "rapey" bit was a particular case of a general rule: If a plot twist doesn't work when applied to one gender, it probably won't work in all the other cases as well.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
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Rob has a point. It's like the literary equivalent of shouting "NAME, get in this house this instant!" out the back door, and using whether or not you cringe that the kid's going to get beat up, before putting that name on the birth certificate of your child.
That the joke might have some logic flaws does not discount that the idea behind it has some potential usefulness to any writer.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
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Grr. Would like to reply, but Yuku doesn't seem to like it . . .. Can only use quick reply, so no pre-post corrections. Again, I apologize that this comes out as a bit of a rant.
robkelk Wrote:More importantly, the "rapey" bit was a particular case of a general rule: If a plot twist doesn't work when applied to one gender, it probably won't work in all the other cases as well. JFerio Wrote:That the joke might have some logic flaws does not discount that the idea behind it has some potential usefulness to any writer. The basis for the argument has nothing to do with being a visual artist in any media, it has to do with helping aspiring writers produce quality works.
However, as I pointed out, there's no reason the situation used as an example doesn't apply to either gender. Let's also remember that there are certain situations that simply do not transfer between genders. So the basis for the rule is already flawed, though salvageable. After all, if there is a plot twist where you find out Frank Farkle is pregnant, that would be moronic. But, if Fanny Farkle forwarded that frightening fact (fingering Fred Berkel would be frivolous), followers would feign acceptance and feel they were not fibbed to. (Sorry, Laugh In moment.)
I stand by my suggested interpretation of the rule: “If there is more than one way to get a specific character development, take the less-rapey one. Unless that’s what you’re looking for.”
The specific situation, from the joke, doesn't work because it's Mario. But, the situation John Kovalic is ranting against does apply to both genders. Why doesn't sexual abuse fit in Lara Croft's background?
While I’m not trying to accuse Rob of a prudish-agenda for posting that link (it was funny as hell!). As this took off I got to asking myself that question: Why doesn't sexual abuse fit in Lara Croft's background?
The only reason I can come up with is: People are offended by it. It makes them uncomfortable and they don’t like it, wanting to return to their own, preconceived notions of how the character should be developed. Not our character. Not our call.
Let’s also realize that this isn’t a sophomoric titillation stunt the developers are pulling. This was a knee-jerk reaction by uninformed outsiders to a perceived slight with nothing to go on but a slipped phrase from a loose tongue. It’s like the “pornographic quality sex scene” in Mass Effect or the seizing of SJGames computers for creating a Hacker’s Bible (from the old Cyberpunk days for those of you who weren’t part of that era). There’s nothing there . . . get over it.
To help people write a better story, we don’t want to take tools away from them. Basically, the idea not to include plot-points that couldn’t fit for both genders is drastically limiting and, quite possibly, could be telling real victims of sexual abuse that their experiences aren’t worth writing about.
If it’s something you don’t want to write about, for whatever reason, that’s okay. No one is going to hold a gun to your head and say “Write a rape story or I’ll blow your brains out.” But, if someone wants to write a rape story, don’t tell them they shouldn’t because “it doesn’t apply to both genders” or “it’s a lazy way of doing character development.” You have to read the story first, to see if that’s the case.
ETA: Had to fix a sentence.
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Sorry to change subjects a bit, but this thread got me reading the Guide (again), and a few wires crossed in an interesting way.
At one point in the middle, there was a discussion of the unicorn in the backyard- the one change that makes events diverge from canon. Towards the end, there was a discussion of Ranma and HP as period pieces, the effects of cellphones on plots, and how you shouldn't just treat your stories as happening in the now unless they're supposed to.
So has anybody done a good HP fic where the one divergence was that things happened now, instead of 1991-1999? I'd be interested to see a study of how that could affect things.
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.
I've been writing a bit.
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