Trump claims he's allowed to pardon himself

[robkelk]

AP: Trump says he has 'absolute right' to pardon himself after Giuliani plays down possibility

At least Giuliani had the sense to say that Trump wouldn't do that... but Trump's comments were in response to Giuliani's.


So, tell me, Mr. Trump: If you've done nothing wrong, why do you see the need to pardon yourself?

[Dartz]

There will be outrage.

There will nto be action.

If it happens. If he tries it. It basically means that America is effectively a dictatorship. Because if previous form has been any indication the last few protests have been lkittle more than flashes in the pan that fall apart when people get bored and need to go to work in the morning to put food on the table and keep paying the doctor.

[Matrix Dragon]

Yesterday his lawyer claimed Trump could shoot someone and not be charged. Today Trumps claiming he could pardon himself for anything. And your First Lady is stilll MIA...

[SilverFang01]

There will be outrage.

There will nto be action.

If it happens. If he tries it. It basically means that America is effectively a dictatorship. Because if previous form has been any indication the last few protests have been lkittle more than flashes in the pan that fall apart when people get bored and need to go to work in the morning to put food on the table and keep paying the doctor.

Checks and balances don't work when one party practically controls two branches, which look the other way when convenient and makes sure that only them can fill the third.

ETA: And the opposition party refuses to present a strong opposition, and the few times they do they are painted as unreasonable by the media.

[Labster]

All of you end of America conspiracy theorists need to take a chill pill. In private, the Congressional chickens have made it clear that this is not a thing that could happen. The implication is pretty clear -- the President, by accepting a pardon, would be admitting that he committed a crime. There's not really anything much to do at that point, the impeachment trial would be based on the President's own confession, and no other evidence would be necessary, not even a list of charges.

Say what you will about the GOP House leadership, but the reason there is no movement for impeachment now is because a majority of congressional Democrats don't back it. To every thing there is a season, and believe me that winter is coming. But there is zero meaning in firing that broadside prematurely if we're in the middle of crushing it in the elections. You don't want to motivate the other side to come out and vote, either. There's also no meaning in victory if we get him kicked out of office and half the country thinks it was a liberal sham trial. Without overwhelming evidence, any impeachment victory would be pyrrhic. But the Special Counsel is making progress, one guilty plea at a time.

There's actually a pretty massive post-Mueller firing protest that's been organized, although we've come to be convinced that we won't need it. But you need a moment that's pretty universally beyond the pale. Everyone gets offended by different things -- personally the moment for me when I realized that Trump was a Complete Monster was when he reiterated that certain gang members were not people, but animals. (If you think you can justify this, please write in fanfiction form of your SI explaining this to Tsukino Usagi how this a perfectly normal thing.) But reading the responses above ... basically everyone would recognize the self-pardon as leading towards dictatorship, and mobilize immediately.

[robkelk]

CBC Analysis: Trump muses about pardoning himself, experts on authoritarianism are horrified

The important bit, IMHO:

In general, the president has broad authority to pardon federal crimes. But a 1974 Justice Department memo on the question of whether president Richard Nixon could pardon himself was met with a resounding no, on the grounds that "no one may be a judge in his own case."

[SilverFang01]

All of you end of America conspiracy theorists need to take a chill pill.  In private, the Congressional chickens have made it clear that this is not a thing that could happen.  The implication is pretty clear -- the President, by accepting a pardon, would be admitting that he committed a crime.  There's not really anything much to do at that point, the impeachment trial would be based on the President's own confession, and no other evidence would be necessary, not even a list of charges.

Say what you will about the GOP House leadership, but the reason there is no movement for impeachment now is because a majority of congressional Democrats don't back it.  To every thing there is a season, and believe me that winter is coming.  But there is zero meaning in firing that broadside prematurely if we're in the middle of crushing it in the elections.  You don't want to motivate the other side to come out and vote, either.  There's also no meaning in victory if we get him kicked out of office and half the country thinks it was a liberal sham trial.  Without overwhelming evidence, any impeachment victory would be pyrrhic.  But the Special Counsel is making progress, one guilty plea at a time.

There's actually a pretty massive post-Mueller firing protest that's been organized, although we've come to be convinced that we won't need it.  But you need a moment that's pretty universally beyond the pale.  Everyone gets offended by different things -- personally the moment for me when I realized that Trump was a Complete Monster was when he reiterated that certain gang members were not people, but animals.  (If you think you can justify this, please write in fanfiction form of your SI explaining this to Tsukino Usagi how this a perfectly normal thing.)  But reading the responses above ... basically everyone would recognize the self-pardon as leading towards dictatorship, and mobilize immediately.

I am not speaking about impeachment. More about the refusal of the GOP senate to consider a Supreme Court appointment using the excuse that it was an election year so they would not do it even when it was the previous practice, the multiple holds on nominations to lower courts being honored by the Democrats even after it was clear that it was just done for the sake of throwing a spanner for shits and giggles.

There is a proverb that reads: "Do not be overly righteous, nor be a fool; why would you destroy yourself?" Their insistence on playing by the rules when it was already established that the GOP was just using them to abuse the system has brought a lot of frustration to people.

Regarding the end of the USA? History shows that every nation and empire has gone through periods like this before, and if the people are willing to learn the important lessons they come out stronger for it. If not, they turn to dust and ashes. The end? No. Changed? Oh, yes. (I have watched DS9's "Past Tense 1 & 2" just yesterday which may have influenced the previous paragraph.)

Usagi is a very forgiving person, and willing to establish an understanding through dialogue and empathy, more than most in some situations. But I think that she would appropriately deal with him once he's made clear that he is just another manifestation of Chaos.