[OOC][PLOT] Galaxy Building (Where we make Magrathea look like small potatoes)

[Labster]

I'm going to take that as "ignore the crazier bits", because otherwise the implication of what you said is that the Choushuu are orders of magnitude more powerful than the Norns, and directly or indirectly created them.

[Bob Schroeck]

You could also apply a little of the Drunkard's Walk cosmology if you like, where they're all "skins" for a set of even greater beings, such that Washuu and Skuld are two facets of a much more powerful entity that can operate pretty much autonomously.

[robkelk]

Which could be supported by Washuu and Skuld being the only two goddesses who have regular contact with the Ottawa apartment - their OverEntity has taken an interest in that group.

And that just gave me a couple of nebulous plot ideas...

[Black Aeronaut]

I'm going to take that as "ignore the crazier bits", because otherwise the implication of what you said is that the Choushuu are orders of magnitude more powerful than the Norns, and directly or indirectly created them.

. Argh. The website DOES NOT like Safari. I’ll fix this when I get home

[Black Aeronaut]

I'm going to take that as "ignore the crazier bits", because otherwise the implication of what you said is that the Choushuu are orders of magnitude more powerful than the Norns, and directly or indirectly created them.

. Argh. The website DOES NOT like Safari.  I’ll fix this when I get home

Okay, here we go.

That's not really what I meant.  I make no bones about it - Tenchi is definitely in the same category as the Almighty.  And the Nourns are definitely on par with the Choushin.

It's only that the way the Japanese bandy about the title of 'God' leaves a lot of leeway.

The thing about Tenchi is that, due to these circumstances, Kami-Tenchi has a way into the Metacontinuity, as our own Tenchi will merely be a facet of the greater being.

Fortunately, Kami-Tenchi is keeping the vast majority of his power off of Tenchi's shoulders - for obvious reasons.  And the limiter applied by the Goddesses handle the rest.

Washu and Tsunami being on par with Belldandy, their limiters are as powerful as hers.

Princess Serenity is several steps below, I think.  She is indeed powerful but she is still more-or-less mortal.  And from there, pretty much everyone else starts to fall into place.

Kinda lukewarm about using the DW cosmology here.  Lemme dwell on it for a few days.

[Bob Schroeck]

You don't need to use the DW cosmology, per se, just the idea.

[Black Aeronaut]

Hmmm....

Interesting idea: What if Kami-Tenchi has a hand in all this? Not that he caused it... but that it was an outcome in one of his many timelines that he permitted to occur? This could be great fodder for the overarching plot.

"No, I did not cause this. But I would be lying if I said that I didn't find the outcome to be desirable."

That can cause all kinds of screaming at the upper levels. Thoughts?

[Labster]

That's kinda interesting.

Mainly I'm just worried at a causality level. The current story is that Washuu broke Yggdrasil which broke existence, and somehow the Norse pantheon is in charge of fixing it. It's probably not something I even need to know to write.

I write a lot of comedy, and comedy is about the conflict of expectations and reality. Having comedian characters kinda forces the issue, like here:

Tomo growled, "I have to tell all of these idiots online what stupid racist assholes they are."

"Really? Have to?" Yomi said.

"Of course she's like this," Brent explained, "She's a Lady of Venus, so you should expect vitriol."

Yomi chuckled, "Good one."

"Hey, wait, why is vitriol funny? It's just angry debate, right?" Tomo asked Yomi for an explanation of the joke.

"It's an old word for sulfuric acid," Yomi defined.

"And how do you know that, Yomi?"

She reflected for a moment. "I don't really know, I just do?"

"Aha! Just like I thought, Yomi is cheating at English!"

"What do you mean cheating?" she rebuffed.

"I used to be way better at English, and now she knows all of these obscure words -- without ever learning them."

Osaka gasped, "You cheater! I can't believe it!"

Tomo turned and began sobbing on Osaka's breast, "She cheated me!"

"There, there." Osaka patted Tomo on the head.

"You were only ever better at the spoken exams! Sheesh."

My expectation was that a lesser being meddled in the affairs of gods, and broke things that the gods have to fix. You're telling me the reality is that a greater being accidentally a whole multiverse, and poor lesser gods have to clean up the mess. I'm not sure about the coherence of the story, but that's kinda funny.

[Rajvik]

Of course that is the case, you are familiar with the concept of promoting someone to the point of failure. Its the same thing, you promote them to the point just beyond what their talents and training will allow them to handle and then step back and watch them scramble. 4 times out of 5 the scrambling turns things to shite, but that fifth time you always get something glorious

[Black Aeronaut]

Brent, do you speed read everything I post by perchance?

Not that he caused it... but that it was an outcome in one of his many timelines that he permitted to occur?
<snip>
"No, I did not cause this. But I would be lying if I said that I didn't find the outcome to be desirable."

[Labster]

Well yeah I speed read a lot.  But what you wrote there isn't relevant to my point, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

I feel like by the nature of the story being a Metacontinuity, we're able to break continuity in a lot of ways.  But the initial event that created the Metacontinuity shouldn't be subject to this fuzzyness.  I mean, okay, it can be a unicorn in the garden.  I'm just trying to reconcile these facts:

Define U as the set of universes that appear in the metacontinuity.

1) The event that caused all of this to happen was Washuu hacking into Yggdrasil.
   A) Implication: Washuu can connect to divine power
B) Implication: Washuu didn't fully understand the operation of the System
2) Damage to Yggdrasil caused all of the universes to be moved into a dump file
   C) Implication: Yggdrasil represents the source of truth for U
   D) Implication: Yggdrasil maintains spacetime for U
3) Belldandy and her sisters operate Yggdrasil on behalf of Heaven
   E) Implication: given C or D, the Norns are responsible for maintaining U
   F) Implication: The Norns are lesser powers than Heaven
4) Heaven and Hell bear responsibility for protecting the Metacontinuity
   G) Implication: Also given E, Heaven represents powers which control and maintain U
5) Belldandy was able to place power limiters on Washuu without her knowing it
  H) Implication: Belldandy is more powerful than Washuu.
6) Tenchi Muyo's universe (TMU) is a member of U
  I) Implication: TMU was maintained by Yggdrasil
7) The Choushin created TMU, and existed outside it across the 8th dimension
  J) Implication: Given I, the Choushin were aware of Heaven
8) Washuu and her sisters (the Choushin) were unaware of any powers greater than they prior to meeting Kami-Tenchi
  K) Implication: Given J, Heaven is less powerful than the Choushin
  L) K contradicts H, given F

So either the 'verse is inconsistent, or I've made the wrong implications.  I think there's something to be said about maybe I'm looking at it wrongly for power levels (above 9000, metering doesn't work).  Maybe it's more of a Brahma/Vishnu situation where creation and maintenance are split.  Except Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva feel like yet another incarnation of The Three, and the Norns are already not that under F.

Ugh, no wonder this was hard to explain, now that I've written it out.  I'm not really looking for answers now.  The MST3K mantra is also an acceptable answer, really.

[robkelk]

Oh, yes ... Was somebody looking for Martians?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_in_fiction

[robkelk]

I'll just mention this post I made to the Fenspace forum. It shouldn't come up here for a few arcs yet, but... hey, good to know.

[robkelk]

Another random thought:  Somewhere, in a large tree in a city park, the Rescue Rangers are setting up shop.

(checks Google Maps) There's a park 15 minutes from the warehouse-turned-apartment in Windsor.

Speaking of... If nobody (including Norgarth) sees anything wrong with the following, I'll add it to the wiki.

{{Infobox Apartment
| title = Club Lofts Condominium
| image =
| caption =
| Address = 2175 Wyandotte St E, Windsor, ON, Canada
| Manager = Norgarth
| Number of Wings = 1
| Number of Floors = 12
| Total Number of Apartments = 69
| Amenities = On-site:
* exercise room
* rooftop terrace
* party room
* car wash
Nearby:
* across the road from an arts centre
* six-minute walk to the VIA Rail station
* fifteen-minute walk to a park on the Detroit River (in which the Rescue Rangers have set up shop)
* 12-minute drive (plus customs check) from downtown Detroit
}}'''''This is an NPC residence.'''''

:''"Ugh, Mr Bean put too much detergent in his washing machine. He was a lot funnier when I didn't have to clean up his messes."''

A distillery warehouse converted to an apartment building in the wilds of "South Detroit" (a.k.a. Windsor, Ontario, Canada), known as a residence for an eclectic group of people.

== Residents ==
=== Group 1: ''Mahoromatic'' ===
* [[Mahoro Ando]]
* [[Minawa Ando]]
* [[Toshiya Hamaguchi]]
* [[Minato Hokaze]]
* [[Suguru Misato]]
* [[Chizuko Oe]]
* [[Miyuki Sakura]]
* [[Rin Todoriki]]
* [[Slash]]
* [[Tou Ryuga]]
* [[Saori Shikijo]]

=== Group 2: ''Avatar: The Last Airbender'' ===
* [[Aang]]
** [[Appa]]
** [[Momo]]
* [[Katara]]
* [[Sokka]]
* [[Suki]]
* [[Toph Beifong]]

=== Group 3: ''Fraggle Rock'' ===
Sort of - the Fraggles have their own "world", but its connection to the outside world is in the building.

=== Group 4: ''Stargate SG-1'' ===
* [[Jack O'Neil|Brigadier-General Johnathan "Jack" O'Neil]]
* Lieutenant-Colonel [[Samantha Carter]]
* Dr. [[Daniel Jackson]]
* [[Teal'c]]
* [[Vala Mal Doran]]

=== Group 5: ''X-Men Evolution'' ===
* [[Amara Aquilla]]
* [[Ray Crisp]]
* [[Roberto Da Costa]]
* [[Evan Daniels]]
* [[Bobby Drake]]
* [[Jean Grey]]
* [[Sam Guthrie]]
* [[Jubilation Lee]]
* [[Jamie Madrox]]
* [[Hank McCoy]]
* [[Ororo Munroe]]
* [[Kitty Pryde]]
* [[Rahne Sinclair]]
* [[Scott Summers]]
* [[Kurt Wagner]]
* [[Charles Xavier]]
* [[Logan]]
* [[Rogue]]

=== Group 6: ''Mr. Bean'' ===
* [[Mr. Bean]]

[Norgarth]

Actually there are a few small parklets in the area as well (tiny parks, with only the area of a house's property, usually with flowerbeds, some trees, and a few benches.  sometimes with a display case/plaque talking about some aspect of the area's history). as well as a number of restaurants, 2 grade schools (grades K-8) (1 public, 1 catholic), and a public high school (grades 9-12) within easy waking distance too.

The riverside park (which stretches 5 kilometers, and further down includes playground areas, flowerbeds, a few war memorials, a restaurant around the halfway point and a sculpture garden at the far end near the Ambassador Bridge border crossing) doesn't have any big trees that would be good for the Rescue Rangers, but Willistead Park (another short walk to the South and west) has a number of old oaks that would work.

Speaking of the border, we have 2 crossings.  The Ambassador Bridge out in the west end of the city and the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel (under the river) in the downtown area.  The latter would be the  '12 min drive' one.

I'm not sure if '12 floors' is entirely accurate, as there are only 6 levels, each with 2 story apartments.  I suppose that does total 12, I'm just unsure of the proper phrasing.

For Group 4, let's add Janet and Cassie Fraiser to the mix.  If Cassie retains her telekinetic abilities then she can train with Jean Grey , and a medical doctor on site won't hurt.

[robkelk]

I've changed it to 6 floors.

Yes, 12 minutes plus customs to take the tunnel from the condos to the Coho Center.

And the page is up

[Black Aeronaut]

OKAY.

COSMOLOGY.

I finally had an idea of how to do this in a way that will make sense.  Thing is, though, it won't entirely be Washu's fault, only that she poked her nose in the wrong universe.

Basically?  I'm throwing out the idea that any one universe is greater than the other.

What's happening?  The boundaries between ALL universes are collapsing.  (How?  This is the part I'm still working out.)

What this means?  The Yggdrasil/Nidhogg system pretty much crapped the bed as it suddenly tried to take control of all of that at once.

This would mean that we still have the Metacontinuity.  Only instead of a sandbox, it's now the seed of an entirely new Universe where absolutely anything is possible, and causality is malleable to a ridiculous degree.

Other interesting changes: Yukari Yakumo is on the case, assisting the Goddesses.  Her being a Yokai whose domain is the power over borders, she is the subject matter expert on the issue.  Unfortunately, not even she can just snap her fingers and make it all better.

Possible Season 3 and 4 characters - the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40K.  This situation is exactly their kind of bag, and they would dearly love to see everything get slammed together into as horrible of a mish-mash as possible.

This could possibly mean we might have Thanos and Darkseid both as Antiheroes in this hot mess.

This solves a lot of causality problems that we were having in regards to Kami-Tenchi and the Goddesses and such.  Rather than one party exerting control over the other, this would be multiple parties coming together to work a dire issue.  The rest of the Multiverse is on pause right now, and the Goddesses are employing the greatest asset available to help keep things downstairs under control and from getting out of hand:

Send in the Geeks! (In other words, us.)

Thoughts?  I could really use some help on what exactly causes this to happen, and I don't think "Alien Space Bats" is gonna cut it.

[Rajvik]

Alright, who the hell loaded Windows Vista onto the multidimensional mainframe?

[Black Aeronaut]

Alright, who the hell loaded Windows Vista onto the multidimensional mainframe?

PFFFFTTT!!!!  

[Inquisitive Raven]

OKAY.

COSMOLOGY.

I finally had an idea of how to do this in a way that will make sense.  Thing is, though, it won't entirely be Washu's fault, only that she poked her nose in the wrong universe.

Basically?  I'm throwing out the idea that any one universe is greater than the other.

What's happening?  The boundaries between ALL universes are collapsing.  (How?  This is the part I'm still working out.)

What this means?  The Yggdrasil/Nidhogg system pretty much crapped the bed as it suddenly tried to take control of all of that at once.

This would mean that we still have the Metacontinuity.  Only instead of a sandbox, it's now the seed of an entirely new Universe where absolutely anything is possible, and causality is malleable to a ridiculous degree.

Other interesting changes: Yukari Yakumo is on the case, assisting the Goddesses.  Her being a Yokai whose domain is the power over borders, she is the subject matter expert on the issue.  Unfortunately, not even she can just snap her fingers and make it all better.

Possible Season 3 and 4 characters - the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40K.  This situation is exactly their kind of bag, and they would dearly love to see everything get slammed together into as horrible of a mish-mash as possible.

This could possibly mean we might have Thanos and Darkseid both as Antiheroes in this hot mess.

This solves a lot of causality problems that we were having in regards to Kami-Tenchi and the Goddesses and such.  Rather than one party exerting control over the other, this would be multiple parties coming together to work a dire issue.  The rest of the Multiverse is on pause right now, and the Goddesses are employing the greatest asset available to help keep things downstairs under control and from getting out of hand:

Send in the Geeks! (In other words, us.)

Thoughts?  I could really use some help on what exactly causes this to happen, and I don't think "Alien Space Bats" is gonna cut it.

Thus far, I haven't seen any BTVS elements in this, but Dawn Summers as the Key has the ability to break down dimensional barriers. That's why Glorificus wanted her. So, Glory gets hold of Dawn and begins the sacrifice which breaks down the dimensional barriers. Buffy's heroic sacrifice stops the breakdown, but unlike in the show, things don't miraculously get better. Instead, active intervention is required on the part of various deities and deity-like entities to fix the mess.

[robkelk]

Alright, who the hell loaded Windows Vista onto the multidimensional mainframe?

PFFFFTTT!!!!  

Supercomputer, not Mainframe. (Those being two different things is one thing that ReBoot got right.)

Mainframes run consumer-grade operating systems all the time...

[Black Aeronaut]

OKAY.

COSMOLOGY.

I finally had an idea of how to do this in a way that will make sense.  Thing is, though, it won't entirely be Washu's fault, only that she poked her nose in the wrong universe.

Basically?  I'm throwing out the idea that any one universe is greater than the other.

What's happening?  The boundaries between ALL universes are collapsing.  (How?  This is the part I'm still working out.)

What this means?  The Yggdrasil/Nidhogg system pretty much crapped the bed as it suddenly tried to take control of all of that at once.

This would mean that we still have the Metacontinuity.  Only instead of a sandbox, it's now the seed of an entirely new Universe where absolutely anything is possible, and causality is malleable to a ridiculous degree.

Other interesting changes: Yukari Yakumo is on the case, assisting the Goddesses.  Her being a Yokai whose domain is the power over borders, she is the subject matter expert on the issue.  Unfortunately, not even she can just snap her fingers and make it all better.

Possible Season 3 and 4 characters - the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40K.  This situation is exactly their kind of bag, and they would dearly love to see everything get slammed together into as horrible of a mish-mash as possible.

This could possibly mean we might have Thanos and Darkseid both as Antiheroes in this hot mess.

This solves a lot of causality problems that we were having in regards to Kami-Tenchi and the Goddesses and such.  Rather than one party exerting control over the other, this would be multiple parties coming together to work a dire issue.  The rest of the Multiverse is on pause right now, and the Goddesses are employing the greatest asset available to help keep things downstairs under control and from getting out of hand:

Send in the Geeks! (In other words, us.)

Thoughts?  I could really use some help on what exactly causes this to happen, and I don't think "Alien Space Bats" is gonna cut it.

Thus far, I haven't seen any BTVS elements in this, but Dawn Summers as the Key has the ability to break down dimensional barriers. That's why Glorificus wanted her. So, Glory gets hold of Dawn and begins the sacrifice which breaks down the dimensional barriers. Buffy's heroic sacrifice stops the breakdown, but unlike in the show, things don't miraculously get better. Instead, active intervention is required on the part of various deities and deity-like entities to fix the mess.

Okay, that works.

And as for the reason that things don't get better...  That could be because of The Four trying to interfere, but then the Goddesses running the Yggdrasil collectively go "NOPE".

[Bob Schroeck]

Thus far, I haven't seen any BTVS elements in this, but Dawn Summers as the Key has the ability to break down dimensional barriers. That's why Glorificus wanted her. So, Glory gets hold of Dawn and begins the sacrifice which breaks down the dimensional barriers. Buffy's heroic sacrifice stops the breakdown, but unlike in the show, things don't miraculously get better. Instead, active intervention is required on the part of various deities and deity-like entities to fix the mess.

This I like.

[robkelk]

I can see why folks care about this, but as far as I'm concerned, you're arguing over which Wizard Did It. Have fun.

[Black Aeronaut]

I can see why folks care about this, but as far as I'm concerned, you're arguing over which Wizard Did It. Have fun.

Snrk.

Thing is, which wizard did it will, as I said earlier, have an effect on how things shake out in Seasons 3 and 4.  This just happens to satisfy our collective goals and my personal one.

Collectively, we want a story that's truly epic in proportion, leaves us a fun world to play in should we want to continue writing stories, and is entertaining to read, preferably with a bit of everything for everyone without getting into 'grim derp' territory.  (I'll delve a bit more into this in a bit.)

My goals are pretty much all the above, but also to have as few Suspension of Disbelief Breaking elements as possible.  Which means having plausible answers for things like, "Why are the Kamis from Tenchi Muyo stuck with Limiters?"  In this case, short answer, their over-selves made that arrangement with the Goddess Relief Network because they're working in cooperation.

So, now that everyone is on board with this, lemme get into tone for a minute here.

Guys, I don't mind if there's some edge to our stories.  In fact, Deconstruction by its very definition mandates it to a certain degree.  As long as we're keeping it down to Bubblegum Crisis or Shadow Run levels of edge, then I'm fine with it - just keep it realistic.  Note that I have freakin' Kyubey running around already, and making contracts with little girls.  It's in the background for the moment, but in a fairly short time it's going to come into the foreground.

The earlier knee-jerk reactions to some of Dartz's stuff early on was due to misunderstands on all sides.  Dartz didn't really catch on to the idea that, per rules of Deconstruction, that each group has an oversight set by Lord Phantomhive as well as a cooperative network between the managers (e.g.: the Good Neighbor System).  And for our part, we didn't understand exactly where Dartz was going with his story - we kinda jumped the gun there and I honestly feel embarrassed about that.