Irish oddsmaker gives 33% chance Trump will be impeached

[robkelk]

That is not a reason to close your borders. That is a reason to go out, share your wealth, and teach people what freedom and democracy actually are.

rob, we tried that, it was referred to in the deleted thread on the caravan coming as "Dollar Diplomacy". We have tried giving them money, it sticks to the kleptocrats pockets, we have tried being supportive and giving them equipment and sending people to help build things like hospitals, schools and wells, and all we ever see from it is a rising tide of immigration from the area.

That covers the "share your wealth" part of my comment, but where's the "go out" and "teach people what freedom and democracy actually are" parts? As you said, you can't do those parts of what I said simply by throwing money at the problem. You have to roll up your sleeves and actually do the teaching, not just send somebody to build something - "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself", not pay somebody else to do it.

I made a sarcastic remark in another thread about how the only way we would probably ever solve the immigration issue on our southern border would be to annex/invade and conquer everything south to either the Panama Canal or the Darien Swamp. That way all of them could be citizens and we could deal with the problems in an appropriate manner since the Cartels are a significant part of the problem.

there was no follow on comments, i wonder a bit why?

How often do sarcastic remarks from anybody get replies here?

[classicdrogn]

How often do sarcastic remarks from anybody get replies here?

Only when the sarcasm doesn't make it through the text-only medium, or someone sees humour or points to be made by taking it at face value. We seem to do a better than average job of not rising to bait most of the time, and of avoiding getting too personal even then.

Most of the time. Continued effort along these lines is appreciated. Waiting a few minutes and rereading comments before hitting "post reply" is something I always encourage and try to do myself for multiple reasons, that among them, and yet I still almost always end up wanting to edit after the fact

Edit: ... (headdesk)

[robkelk]

It's okay. I asked about sarcastic replies, not rhetorical questions. (Those always get replies. )

[robkelk]

I've been remiss at mentioning updates to the Impeach-o-Meter... mainly because there's been serious political discussion going on.

But things seem to have calmed down, so... It's the lowest it's ever been, thanks to the summary that was released of the Mueller report.

Something to keep in mind:

While the public hasn't yet seen the full report — which is reportedly 300 pages long — Mueller and his office won't be recommending any more indictments in this investigation. There are, however, other investigations and cases against Trump and his associates that are ongoing.

Play along at home: Tracking the Impeach-O-Meter

[robkelk]

And with the redacted version of the Mueller report out, the Impeach-O-Meter is back up to 40%. Looks to me like too many people believed the summary was accurate.

[Rajvik]

The problem for the dems is that they have spent so long fielding this particular pile of excrement, all they can do is either continue to run with it, or wear it. Almost like they have a bowel balanced (barely) on their head and are running to keep it up there. Now if they stop, they are going to wear the contents, but if they don't they will go off the balcony. Hell of a decision to make.

[Labster]

Last week, I was content to take all of this slow, do a few Congressional oversight investigations, no big worry. But basically, the person who George W. Bush appointed to head the FBI is essentially telling Congress that it has a duty to launch impeachment proceedings. It's a constitutional duty at this point, so the political ramifications honestly don't matter. If the House votes to impeach and it fails in the Senate, then at least we have done our duty.

If it costs Democrats a lot of House seats, that's too bad, but it's not really material to the situation. Mueller has forced our hand here, along with his mountain of evidence. With the stakes raised, all-in is really the only option on the table. The sooner that Democrats realize that, the less painful it's going to be. But it's going to be painful.

Also note that none of this implicates Vice President Pence. So we're not talking about stealing the White House from the Republican Party.

[classicdrogn]

Oh stop whining Raj - as the preemptive spin on the announcement of the report-on-the-report proved, putting a crony into the position that receives and decides how to act on the investigation worked perfectly, and it's not like anyone in the gun control party is going to opt for more forceful measures to get rid of the asshole. The only question now is whether America bends over gracefully for him or keeps kicking and screaming while he has his way.

[Matrix Dragon]

Sadly, the Republican Party has been blatant in just how much they're willing to ignore their oaths and supposed beliefs in favor of more money and kickbacks, so I'm not seeing them growing the spine needed to actually do something. On the other hand, this means that 'Conversion Therapy' funding monster Pence isn't as likely to get to be President. Which is sort of a plus.

[Rajvik]

Drogn, that's not whining, that's laughter, that is me saying that the dems have shot themselves in the foot over a lie because their chosen one didn't win and couldn't take it. It is a vindication of me saying repeatedly that all this special snowflake bullshit that gets preached at kids nowadays, (and was when I was in school) is just that, bullshit.

The only thing I may whine about is a lot of you, who I feel are pretty damn smart, not understanding what has happened and buying into the left's lies.

[Dartz]

It is clear from outside the bubble that there is something wrotten at the core of US politics. It seems very much, that while there's mould on the democrats, the republicans are going fully putrid.

I mean legitimately rotten.

Obama was a bit of a drone-fetishist, prone to being a copyright dick-suck, led a remarkabnly uintransparent administration and probably took a little too long to make a decision. But there was always a certain level of consideration and decorum. Even Bush - for all his faults and malpropisms, was generally up to the task of the office - a wee bit of a war monger but not outright evil.

There was never any question of either of them being in the pocket of a foreign agency. Not to mention, they had enough sense to know how the diuplomatic game was played.

The previous two administrations - for whatever reason - seem to have been relatively free of apocalyptic scandals. Benghazi seems to have been manufactured as an artificial drumbeat out of a complex situation that utterly pales in the realm of the fuckups unleshed by previous US governments. But really, if 'Using personal emails for work purposes' is the biggest crime you can come up with - while there're members of the current administration being carted off on legitimate criminal charges of fraud and bribery.

It seems bizarre that you think it's the left that's lying.

I find it bizarre that you thing the Democratic party are fucking left. Nacy Pelosi spoke in the Dáil during the week and she was the hardest right winger in the house (aside from one or two blueshirts, but that's another thing). And she managed not to offend anybody in the process. Something I doubt Trump could manage.

---

And by way of card marking - I'm seeing the sanctions on Rusal being lifting, being used by some as an example of the currant admin being in with the Russians - this was actually the Irish government lobbying diplomatically because a major Alumina plant here was being affected.

[Matrix Dragon]

Let's be honest, even the Left in the US is, at best, the center in a lot of other countries.

[Rajvik]

Dartz, Nancy is a slow left politician, she understands that she cannot run the US so far to the left so fast because we still have people that scream, "That's COMMUNISM" and will get the appropriate response thus shutting her down. Europe has always been to the left of the US, and we debate whether or not to follow.

[Matrix Dragon]

 we still have people that scream, "That's COMMUNISM" and will get the appropriate response

"No, it's not, now wipe that billionaire jizz off your lips."

[Rajvik]

 we still have people that scream, "That's COMMUNISM" and will get the appropriate response

"No, it's not, now wipe that billionaire jizz off your lips."

Says the person wearing a Lenin shirt and a Che beret

[Matrix Dragon]

Lenin was a mass murdering fuckwit, and Che's not far behind. Communisim as a system of government killed tens of millions across Russia, China and beyond. You know this. I know this. They knew it. But they were assholes. Now, be a good little troll, shove your head back up your own ass, and continue to proclaim that your racist, sexist, homophobic, corrupt, con-man of a president is wearing the finest suit possible.

[Rajvik]

Just so long as you realize and admit that you are no better than they for espousing their idiotic and bullshit beliefs.

Edit: I'm sorry those last two posts were trolling and I appologise to everyone here for them. Just remember that the definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over expecting different results.

[Matrix Dragon]

I do not believe in communism in any sense. As you well know. As you have always known. But then, all Trolls like you can ever do is scream Communism. You and your fellow shitheads continue to use the same bullshit you've been throwing out for nearly a century. "THE COMMUNISTS ARE COMING!" You proclaim that, knowing you're talking out your ass, as the people you worship like fucking cultists continue to destroy the legal protections that people literally died to create, all for the purpose of an extra dollar or two.

You are a Troll, here to do nothing but annoy. You are here to accuse us of being things you know we're not. You are here to do nothing more than some online dick-stroking in an attempt to convince yourself you and your political masters haven't abandoned everything you ever claimed to believe in. When people try and provide you with evidence, you scream fake news or ignore it. You don't want to debate, to teach, or to learn. You simply want to piss on everything.

[Dartz]

Ah, but nobody here is espousing 'Communist' beliefs. Not yet anyway

Never mind that I can happily show you's all where the mass graves of capitalism are. As much as that's a tu-coque.

[Rajvik]

Neither side has clean hands Darts, I never claimed they did, add to that, it is an academic argument at best if it is better to die because your government killed you to limit their people's intelligence by taking away the teachers that didn't agree with them, or because your employer was so cheap and your government corrupt enough, that your working conditions got you killed. Like I said academic at best, because either way, you're a corpse.

Of the two, I would rather the latter though because there i at least have a smidgen of a chance to not be miserable like everyone else.

[Epsilon]

"Everyone is a monster" is the kind of things monsters say so you won't actually try to stop them.

[Rajvik]

Then who is pure Epsilon, because all I seem to see are varying shades of red

[Black Aeronaut]

Rajvik, leaving aside all the name-calling, I'm curious as to why you think that the things Democrats want is "Socialism" when it really is not.

It's a foregone conclusion: what we have is not even true capitalism. It may have started out as such, but it's turned into some cancerous thing that's metastasized and infected the government itself. (And don't you dare try and tell me it hasn't!) True capitalism stays the hell out of the public services sector. And this is pretty much what the Democrats want - for the corporations to get the hell out of the public services sector.

So, how the hell is it "socialism" when we want a federally-funded public schools option for higher education?

How the hell is it "socialism" when we want affordable healthcare without insurance companies jacking up the prices?

How the hell is it "socialism" when we want a free and open Internet?

How the hell is it "socialism" when we want fair living wages?

BTW: that last one? That's not socialism at all. It, in fact, has a 100% 'MURICAN name: Fordism. Because Henry Ford was such a raving, mad-eyed, make-me-riocher-than-God capitalist that he realized that no one was gonna buy his damn cars if they couldn't afford to. And you wanna know that crazy part? IT FUCKING WORKED.

Oh sure. You can complain and moan that an expanded social safety net is Socialism all you like. That DOES have the ring of socialism to it, I won't argue that.

But here's the thing: the sooner you start paying Americans fair living wages that are pegged to regional cost of living factors, then the sooner you're gonna see Americans getting off of Welfare and become tax payers instead of tax leaches. That will go so much farther to help our Federal budget than any amount of Republican spending cuts.

Anyone that says that the poor aren't going to start buying things if they get better pay is either an idiot of epic proportions or trying to sell snake oil.

[robkelk]

And while we're asking questions, how the hell is "socialism" communism? Even Marx thought they were different things.

[Black Aeronaut]

And while we're asking questions, how the hell is "socialism" communism? Even Marx thought they were different things.

That one is easy.  Their parents grew up hearing nothing but COMMIES COMMIES COMMIES during the Cold War and that anything that smacked of "Socialism" was the Enemy.  McCarthyism at its worse.

I think Walt Kelley, cartoonist of the infamous Pogo, said it best when he misquoted Oliver Perry: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."