All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XIV

[robkelk]

Technical error help:

Need to delete/edit these broken redirects:
However then I do, this happens:

Known error, having to do with the interwiki functionality. (Just as "W: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control" takes you to the page "The Money of Soul and Possibility Control" on Wikipedia, "C: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control" takes you to... some other wiki's "The Money of Soul and Possibility Control" page.) If I knew how to fix it, I would have months ago.

[Bob Schroeck]

<rubs eyes and sighs> Could someone else please take over policing EccyTennySmithyLove? She's decided that Shout-Out is not a Trivia trope and is moving them off of Trivia pages. Although it's not currently categorized as a trivia trope (and I should go do that now), shout-outs rarely have anything to do with the structure or mechanisms of story telling, and I've been moving them to Trivia pages for years.

[Black Aeronaut]

I just looked at her profile - she says she's autistic, so keep that in mind when arguing with her.

[GethN7]

<rubs eyes and sighs>  Could someone else please take over policing EccyTennySmithyLove?  She's decided that Shout-Out is not a Trivia trope and is moving them off of Trivia pages.  Although it's not currently categorized as a trivia trope (and I should go do that now), shout-outs rarely have anything to do with the structure or mechanisms of story telling, and I've been moving them to Trivia pages for years.

I'll handle it.


Also, I just laid down the law to DocColress to chill out.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thank you.

[LulzKiller]

If they weren't in official policy, we can't be too judgemental per someone taking initiative in taking them off, assuming they'd go through an admins entire edit history for context can be setting maybe too high a standard for regular editors.

What was TVT's policy on this matter, is that a potential factor in this situation?

[robkelk]

Also, I just laid down the law to DocColress to chill out.

Thanks for trying... even though he posted this two hours after replying to your post. (I posted my reply to that before I saw his reply to you.)


While we're on that matter, I'm going to quote myself from this post:

The more I think about it - and especially in light of the comment I just made about why ATT forked away from TVT - the less I like the idea of somebody on the admin team having a veto over what other tropers are or are not allowed to post, as long as what's posted is on-topic for the wiki.

If I'm off-base here, please tell me why.

EDIT: I especially want to hear from Labster, GethN7, and Looney Toons - ATT's bureaucrats other than me - but I also want to hear from other people.

[robkelk]

And he's not giving an inch.

I just told him flat-out that I think he's behaving like the TVT moderation team under Fast Eddie.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm with you on this, Rob. Doc's been showing some seriously dictatorial tendencies for a long time, but this is a point where he's basically demanding we all kowtow to his personal vision of how to run the wiki, and he won't take no for an answer. He won't acknowledge being outvoted, he simply can't understand why we don't automatically agree with his obviously and objectively correct way of running things.

[GethN7]

I'm with you on this, Rob.  Doc's been showing some seriously dictatorial tendencies for a long time, but this is a point where he's basically demanding we all kowtow to his personal vision of how to run the wiki, and he won't take no for an answer.  He won't acknowledge being outvoted, he simply can't understand why we don't automatically agree with his obviously and objectively correct way of running things.

I'm putting a foot down for everyone:


https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...2yxibrypw2

[GethN7]

Update because this is a good point:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...xgqx25s9zm

Doc is right, why clone information? If we are gonna keep that CM page for Tales of Berseria, then the cloned information is superfluous, I suggested an equitable solution for all parties concerned in the post below the one I just linked.

[SelfCloak]

What DocColress said earlier:

Could this be explained to Robkelk, Looney Tunes, SelfCloak and the others who seem ridiculously protective of the page because "hurr durr, we're not TV Tropes! We can do whatever we want to here!"?

He might a point with what he is proposing, but I don't think relying in ad hominem attacks will do any good for any of us. I didn't follow much of the discussion around the Complete Monster page, but that was NOT what I was implying at all with my message.

[GethN7]

What DocColress said earlier:

Could this be explained to Robkelk, Looney Tunes, SelfCloak and the others who seem ridiculously protective of the page because "hurr durr, we're not TV Tropes! We can do whatever we want to here!"?

He might a point with what he is proposing, but I don't think relying in ad hominem attacks will do any good for any of us. I didn't follow much of the discussion around the Complete Monster page, but that was NOT what I was implying at all with my message.

Concur, being a douche is not productive.

I would like the organize the hash out over this here from now on:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Blog:A_pos...infighting[url=https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Blog:A_post_on_a_recent_bit_of_drama_involving_Comple_Monster_pages_and_moderator_infighting][/url]

[LulzKiller]

I posted my suggestion on the blog itself.

[robkelk]

Update because this is a good point:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...xgqx25s9zm

Doc is right, why clone information? If we are gonna keep that CM page for Tales of Berseria, then the cloned information is superfluous, I suggested an equitable solution for all parties concerned in the post below the one I just linked.

Oh, for... He's the one who's been saying the data goes onto his multiple-works CM pages and the YMMV pages, and now he's complaining about it being in more than one place.

Points for chutzpah, but points off for thinking he had nothing to do with the problem.

[robkelk]

I see that, despite the number of times it has been explained by more than one person, DocColress still thinks that the issue is with that one page that I moved after following the process.

Maybe the post I just made might get through. I certainly hope so.

But if it doesn't... I really don't need the stress of trying to work with somebody who refuses to read what is actually written.

[GethN7]

I see that, despite the number of times it has been explained by more than one person, DocColress still thinks that the issue is with that one page that I moved after following the process.

Maybe the post I just made might get through. I certainly hope so.

But if it doesn't... I really don't need the stress of trying to work with somebody who refuses to read what is actually written.

It's a good thing I decided to centralize the hashing out on this topic because I can identify the following ills that need to be addressed.

1. We really need to hammer out some detailed boundaries for the CM pages, so detailed there is no debating what needs done for admin or troper. Lack of this was part of the problem and the origins of this dispute.

2. Doc feels it's inconsistent to segregate some CM examples to specific pages and some to hub pages. Fine, go whole hog on dumping CM stuff on pages specific to their work wherever they don't cover more than one work in a series and eliminate cloned information on the hub page and elsewhere.

3. We need to modify the work template to have a CM subpage link and rename all CM pages to use it appropriately.

4. There are two sides here: one that fears dictatorship and one that fears the former is insisting on stupid changes to an area they don't believe needs changed. My take is to TRY the change, and we can always revert it if it's more trouble than it's worth. Democracy may insist on some ill-considered actions according to some, but by the same mechanisms it can repair and restore damage made by them, so if the changes we are considering are bad, we can always fix things later.

[robkelk]

3a. And create a CM subpage template - but I've got that down to a science.

I'd prefer to have a line in the subpage template saying "Before adding a character to this list, please make sure he or she meets all the criteria" and link to the criteria.

[robkelk]

I just rolled back DocColress's reversion of GethN7's edit to Complete Monster/Tales (series).

Which means GethN7's edit didn't settle things, and DocColress is unwilling to abide by the will of the majority.

<sigh>



I move to remove DocColress's administrator rights, on grounds of dictatorial behaviour inconsistent with being an admin.

Duration of the rights removal to be decided by either consensus or vote.

[GethN7]

I just rolled back DocColress's reversion of GethN7's edit to Complete Monster/Tales (series).

Which means GethN7's edit didn't settle things, and DocColress is unwilling to abide by the will of the majority.

<sigh>



I move to remove DocColress's administrator rights, on grounds of dictatorial behaviour inconsistent with being an admin.

Duration of the rights removal to be decided by either consensus or vote.

I've upgraded that to a full week block, Doc needs to chill.

[SelfCloak]

I concur. This has gone a bit too far.

[LulzKiller]

The block seems to have already been placed without my input, not that I have much to add. It's clear that Doc is a bit.. fragile. I really wonder what could have been done to fix this if I actually bothered to intervene or read up more on the CM history before it all went a bit too hostile. Oh well.

[robkelk]

Which is why I wanted the consensus or vote to begin with - I didn't want this to either be or look to be dictatorial. But what's done is done.

We need to consider what to do if Doc's behaviour doesn't change after the week has passed. But that can wait.


EDIT: Going through my own User Talk page, I see this isn't the first time this has happened. I am now less inclined to give Doc the benefit of the doubt.

---

Changing topics so hard that the clutch grinds...

"Saying the wrong - and creepy - thing" has to be a trope already... Anybody know what it's called?



Source. Mouseover text:

Spoiler

I'm inside your head and I hate it. Please let me out.

[Bob Schroeck]

So... I just protected a page so that only logged-in users can edit it; can anyone tell me why, when I edit it, the wiki claims only admins can edit it? It shows the right status everywhere else...

[LulzKiller]

Milestone celebration time. Only 600 have ever made a single edit mind you, but I guess it's something.