All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XIV

[robkelk]

While drafting a reply to Carlb's post here, I noticed that we don't mention hatnotes in our Style Guide. What else is missing from the Style Guide?

[Bob Schroeck]

Actually, as I've just noted in that thread, we mention that we don't use hatnotes in Creating Disambiguation Pages.

[LulzKiller]

Is there a way of enforcing user accounts only for creating templates per our ruleset?

[Bob Schroeck]

So, I was thinking about an "Obscure" or "Forgotten" shows category, basically inspired by the pages for Safe Harbor and Ivan the Terrible. Does anyone else have any favorite forgotten shows they'd put in such a category?

[LulzKiller]

You could argue the vast majority of all media is obscure or forgotten, what is the standard of this? If we are going to make a category based off of works that have since disappeared as of an existing form, like Dr Who episodes in the 60s amongst other BBC properties, that would make more sense if we worded such a category in that manner.

[Labster]

Isn’t this the page for it? https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Too_Good_to_Last

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, that sort of requires the show be good. I didn't mean to be so picky. <grin> Although we could probably mine candidates from that page.

On another, similar, topic, while going through the "Pages Needing Standard Headers" list, I came across this work, which both we and Wikipedia document, but which has never been completed, and what has been completed has never been seen by anyone outside the studio where it was being made. I bodged up a notice not unlike that from the MIA template (which of course is the wrong thing to use here) and as I did so I got to thinking -- are there other works like this among our collection? If so, are there enough to merit a template, a category and maybe a full article?

[robkelk]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet that many "troper works" would fall into that category.

EDIT: Also, any and all "vaporware".

[robkelk]

Is there a way of enforcing user accounts only for creating templates per our ruleset?

It appears we can't set permissions with that fine a granularity. Our options are turning on or off "createpage" (Create pages which are not discussion pages) and "createtalk" (Create discussion pages). I don't see anything about creating pages by namespace.

[Labster]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access

Actually on the There's Nothing Better wiki, I was thinking that it might be nice to make it public, save for a draft namespace. But that would require Extension:Lockdown which hasn't been approved. For edit access though, normal mediwiki tools are good enough to limit to a group (say 'confirmed') -- you just need to submit a pull request.

[LulzKiller]

Yet another user is claiming that I am being overzealous on the whole copyright thing, and that they merely ported a page on ATT wiki from our forking as opposed to the rather similar looking CM page of the exact same title of TVT.

Can I get some second opinions as to whether I am indeed freaking out?

[Bob Schroeck]

Links, please? Never mind, found it.

[robkelk]

We know too much about copyright to be able to take advantage of the "good faith" clauses in copyright law.

Keep on being overzealous ... no, paranoid ... on the whole copyright thing.

[Bob Schroeck]

As I think Rob asked before, is Miraheze's interminable, outrageous love affair with the 503 error something we can fix by throwing money at it?

I ask because this morning has been especially irritating. I cannot work on the wiki for more than ten minutes before several minutes of 503 errors interrupt everything I'm doing.

[robkelk]

As I think Rob asked before, is Miraheze's interminable, outrageous love affair with the 503 error something we can fix by throwing money at it?

Yes, that was me.

I have to go to work now. First person to file a Phabricator ticket asking this question, please post the link here so others can add to it.

[Labster]

I guess one of the things that happened is that RamNode started offering "Massive" plans for storage, and the disks suck on them. That seems like a money-throwable issue.

[LulzKiller]

I blocked an IPV6 account on the apprehension that it's one of a consistent anonymous editor who likes to contribute broken english contribs with the consistent editing summary "added content". LT likely remembers what I'm referring to.

[Bob Schroeck]

I do, at that.

Speaking of broken English, I hadn't realized just how awful Jade Shauni's English is until I started rewriting the Loot Boxes article -- and had to unmangle what should have been a simple cut-and-paste she made from it to the City of Heroes page. She's one of our most enthusiastic and prolific posters -- I dread the thought of having to troll through all her contributions to fix them.

[GethN7]

It's rare I do this, but I'm going to have to be blunt on something.

I absolutely do not want to punish legitimate users like Rob is proposing here:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Topic:V91pddmvgrz9sl1u

There is a good reason: We will just be giving in to terrorism and hurting legit users, but it won't stop them from trying to start trouble, and they will try to recreate pages and harass people if we cut them off.

I refer to this:

https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/User:Valkerone

See the sockpuppet watch list, several of these (Lady Satsuki in particular) have been a blight on multiple wikis, we are just the latest in a long line, and trying to stop them by using the nuclear option just uses a cannon to swat a fly and hurts honest users for no good reason.

I'm of the opinion we should, under a very proscribed and limited basis, restore Doc to their mod position, but with some very strict limitations, if only because they were honestly keeping this problem fairly well contained prior.

[robkelk]

Allow me to be equally blunt.

I cannot trust DocColress to be willing to listen to opinions that do not match his. He deletes examples on Complete Monster pages - a trope that you yourself told me is subjective - because they do not match his reading of the criteria.

If - and I repeat, IF - that is the sort of moderator that All The Tropes wants even in a limited area, then I would not want to be a moderator on All The Tropes.

If DocColress shows that he can change, then my opinion will also change.

[GethN7]

Allow me to be equally blunt.

I cannot trust DocColress to be willing to listen to opinions that do not match his. He deletes examples on Complete Monster pages - a trope that you yourself told me is subjective - because they do not match his reading of the criteria.

If - and I repeat, IF - that is the sort of moderator that All The Tropes wants even in a limited area, then I would not want to be a moderator on All The Tropes.

And that's why we'll put it to a vote like we do everything else.

If your position prevails, well and good. If not, you are free to do as you feel best.

[LulzKiller]

I don't want Doc to return as mod until we have a permanent solution to CM that has actually been enacted on the wiki as opposed to merely being agreed to (i.e subpage), whatever that solution is.

Returning him with the current status-quo of CM is only going to exacerbate current CM problems and also immediately results in more long talk page disputes between Rob and Doc.

[robkelk]

Aargh... How am I supposed to be able to take part in a conversation with all these 503 errors getting in the way?

[LulzKiller]

Both in this and last month, i've been trying to get Doc to understand why the subpage is his best way out and he continues blinkered every. fucking. time. I thought the Wikia would have helped tend his wounds, but noooo.

He keeps thinking that the status quo will remain, and the fact we failed to implement the subpage immediately is partially at fault for that.

I think his insistence on CM being an objective trope has only hurt him and his case over the years.

[robkelk]

At least nobody's calling for an immediate vote on the matter now. We've had our say; let's let people read what we've posted and come to their own conclusions.