Forget About Everything Else...

[Rajvik]

Love how the news seems to glomp all over the two "Republican" pacifists on the committee, BA's quote there was from Senator Mike Lee who wonders why we are still over there in any country

As for the other quote, technically, the president is free to use the military as he pleases up until the maximum of that year's budget is consumed, at which point he has to go back to congress for more money, a ready example of this is the "Great White Fleet" sailing when Teddy Roosevelt sent the US Navy around the world with the threat that he had the money to get them their and dared congress to try and take it back.

now, i know this congress would step up and issue another article of impeachment if Trump did anything of the sort, i imagine it would be another "Abuse of power" accusation. But quite frankly, i think his attitude would be the same, "Make my day"

edit: Sorry meant to leave links
Roosevelt Bio: https://www.public.navy.mil/AIRFOR/cvn71...RAPHY.aspx
The Great White Fleet: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/li...inley.html

[hazard]

Senators Paul and Lee saying they're not abdicating their duty this time implies they have done so previously.

Also, while the president can technically do a whole lot with the military, he's still constrained by the law. If the law specifically notes it dedicates no money to dronestrikes, the president may not do dronestrikes because there's no money for them. His attempts to use emergency regulations to shift money towards building the southern border wall and the judicial procedures slapping that down make that quite clear.

[Bob Schroeck]

The Republicans are PISSED. (No word from Mitch McConnell yet, though...)

Lee and Paul have already announced that they're throwing in with the Democrats on a bill to strip the President of the emergency war powers that Congress awarded the office back, um, I think it was just after 9/11.

McConnell is predictable -- he's such a Trump toady he'll gladly hand all Congressional power to the President and pretend vociferously that that's what the Constitution and Founding Fathers really intended all along and it was damned libruls who corrupted it into what we've had up to then.

However, I expect most other Republicans in Congress are going to be too much in love with their own power (like any politician) that they'e not going to be happy about Trump and his administration telling them to sit down, shut up, and let him be King.

Meanwhile, this appears to have turned into "The War That Wasn't", and Trump himself seems to be upset that he's not getting his distraction from the Impeachment.

[DHBirr]

Millions of Americans Devastated to Learn They Were Ardent Fans of Soleimani This Whole Time 
I, too, am shocked, truly shocked, to learn that I'm a terrorist-loving pro-Muslim hater of America.  How could I have imagined?

Reader comments included:

John J Nicholson: Fourth of July will never be the same now that I know I hate America. I feel so foolish.

Gladiator2008: Even though I didn’t even know who he was until this week, I know that I loved him.
Ick.
...
What is it about um....*checking name again* General Soleimani that made me love him?  Was it the beard?  The snappy way he looked in that uniform?  His bloodthirsty ways?  Or was it all three?
Hard to say for sure, but I will cherish his memory for at least another three days.

Tina Sparkle: I guess I need to add “Loves Terrorists” to my Tinder profile.
nnhill replied: Isn’t that implied after Stephanie Grisham labeled us all as “human scum”?

California484 [not accepting his/her guilt]: I would have expected something smarter from Haley. Collins, on the other hand, is just a nincompoop with his head so far up Trump’s tuckus that he can see out of Trump’s mouth.

The White Rose Society: chuckling...well, that explains it all...!!!
You know, I was angry when Trump  during his election campaign publicly and loudly on national television mocked a Gold Star family.
I was shocked when he told a widow of a service person killed in Niger, that “I guess he got what he signed up for”.
I cynically thought what a ^&*^*& Graham was when he turned coat against McCain, who, whatever his faults, endured a great deal for his country.
So by this time, when the GOP tried to decry the service of Vindman during his testimony at the House impeachment hearings, I already had an inkling that it was “I” who was the enemy. (And., of course, Vindman,the one who got wounded in the service of his country was a ‘traitor”)
Now Collins has made it perfectly clear...I just love terrorists!!!

[Matrix Dragon]

You know, why are we still over there in any large capacity? I mean, it's clearly not to protect our allies, and the training the Australian detachment provides is pretty limited.

[Rajvik]

If the law specifically notes it dedicates no money to dronestrikes, the president may not do dronestrikes because there's no money for them.

yeah, no Hazard, wrong again, maybe i need to link the WHISKEY REBELLION as another reference to the precedent of him being fully within his rights to do something like this.

Second, if Rand Paul and Mike Lee are this up in arms now, where were they when Obama performed his 2800 drone strikes that killed various other terrorists including one who was a United States Citizen and arguably deserved due process of a treason trial? No this is political grandstanding by a pair of isolationists plain and simple.

Bob, you were doing so well until right there at the end, Nancy Pelosi is the one to blame for the Impeachment not moving on, they rushed their finding and voted to impeach without sufficient evidence and Mitch is calling them on it now that they are trying to get a second swing at things in the Senate by demanding to be allowed to question witnesses that they didn't wait for the courts to say yes or no to Trumps claim of executive privilege, As of an interview today, McConnel said that the rules for the Senate Impeachment trial will be EXACTLY the same as it was for Bill Clinton. They will listen to opening arguments and then question both the house impeachment managers and the President's defense lawyers and then vote whether or not to move on to witness testimony. FACT WITNESSES ONLY! no hearsay need apply, oh wait, that completely eliminates the "Whistleblower" himself, which is why the Whsitleblower law requires FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE of the supposed crime, not second/third/fourth hand testimony from someone who "heard it from several people"

edit: i'm going to add a couple more things you can look up like "The Banana Republic Wars" and "Operation Just Cause" i know the first didn't get congressional approval and i don't believe the second did either but i would have to go look

Edit 2: Another strike for you Hazard,

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says construction of the U.S.-Mexico border wall will move forward after a federal appeals court ruling that frees up construction money.

The 2-1 ruling on Wednesday halted a federal judge’s ruling in December that had prevented the government from spending $3.6 billion diverted from 127 military construction projects to pay for 175 miles (282 kilometers) of border wall.

heres the link to the story on my local news which is an ABC affiliate
https://weartv.com/news/nation-world/whi...l-spending

[robkelk]

Civilian airliner shot down by Iranian surface to air missile. 176 dead, including 63 Canadians.

The war is intensifying.

[Matrix Dragon]

Whelp, Iran's fucked. Still, what the hell were they thinking? So far they were playing it relatively smart, letting Trump's natural fuck wittery make them look like the sane side of the conflict. But this? It's insane. Which, given extremists, can easily happen, but still.

[Labster]

No, it's not intensifying.  Unless Canada chooses to go to war with Iran over this, which as an American is not my problem.

This happened during the period that Iran was launching airstrikes on US bases, while proving that they had the accuracy to not actually kill anyone.  And therefore, they could choose exactly who to kill in the future.  The chance that striking down a passenger plane with a SAM was intentional on the part of the government given the circumstance, is unlikely.  The strategy was to show technical prowess and ability to project power outside Iran, shooting down a passenger aircraft just isn't on message.  The chance of it being some guy who didn't know why there was an unknown aircraft showing up on radar and taking the shot seems more likely.

And then, there's the chance it would could just be a freak accident that just happened to occur during a bombing raid.  These things do happen.  Of course, we'll probably never be able to get a complete investigation.  The aircraft was from Boeing, so sharing technical details with Iranian investigators would be highly illegal.  If it was an accident, we'll just have to wait until the next time it happens to try to prevent future accidents.

There are other explanations that are less likely, like the aircraft just happening to fly into the path of a ballistic missile, or Iran targeting a U.S. spy or two posing as Canadians.

[robkelk]

I held on posting that until we had actual evidence that it was an Iranian missile that shot down the aircraft. The incident happened the same day as the attacks on the military bases that Trump said resulted in no casualties.

At the moment, we're demanding to be part of the investigation, not demanding blood.

[SilverFang01]

I think it’s probable that it was an accident. Still Trump’s fault for provoking Iran in the first place.

[Matrix Dragon]

I think it’s probable that it was an accident. Still Trump’s fault for provoking Iran in the first place.

In fairness, they've both been provoking each other for decades. It's just that Trump escalated in a way that was great PR for Iran.

I'm expecting the black box to go through someone semi neutral like the EU.

[Rajvik]

Question, and an honest question, did the plane go down anywhere near where the US bases are, or where the launchers were i'm sure plotted as being? i can see an accident happening, and Silverfang, they could have waited until the airliner was out of the way to fire, it's not like the bases were moving.

That said, with it being a flight to Ukraine, i think it is likely that it was in a different part of the country, Iran is saying that it was a mechanical failure, the hawks are blaming Iran whether it was an accident or not. Time will tell.

[robkelk]

The plane went down while it was still taking off - it was still in the airport's airspace.

And Iran is refusing to release the black box.

[Matrix Dragon]

The plane went down while it was still taking off - it was still in the airport's airspace.

And Iran is refusing to release the black box.

Like I said, I'm expecting they'll release it through a neutral third party. Handing it over to Boeing and the USA wouldn't happen, even under slightly less strained conditions.

And it'll almost certainly have to come out. This isn't a matter between them, Iraq and the USA. Canada and several other nations have justification for being quite upset right now.

[Rajvik]

i would expect them to hand the box over to Ukraine since it as a Ukraine air flight. If it went down that early then it is highly doubtful that it was hit by the Iranian launch at the US occupied bases. Assuming it was taking off from Tehran then it would have been nowhere near the launch sites

[robkelk]

Iran is - so far - refusing to hand the black boxes over to Ukraine.

As-yet-unconfirmed reports say they've also already bulldozed the crash site before independent investigators could inspect it.

Just what are they hiding?

[Black Aeronaut]

Well now, this is interesting.

Trump's biggest fan boy in the Senate, Matt Gaetz, voted in favor of curbing Trump's ability to act on Iran unless Congress officially declares war or there's, you know, an actual imminent threat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...ar-powers/

[SilverFang01]

They are only denying access to Boeing and the US, and can you blame them? Remember that the Irak invasion was justified by lies and false reports so the iranians may be thinking along those lines.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/j...-to-boeing

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51042326

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news...ace9ff0317

[robkelk]

They are only denying access to Boeing and the US, and can you blame them? Remember that the Irak invasion was justified by lies and false reports so the iranians may be thinking along those lines.

Yes, I can blame them. They knew that they were going to be firing missiles at that time in order to make a point. They could have closed their airspace to civilian traffic. They failed to do that. Even if the downing of the aircraft was an accident, they bear the blame.

Actions - or in this case, failures to act - have consequences.

[Matrix Dragon]

What the fuck is going on...

[Bob Schroeck]

You'll have to be more specific...

[Matrix Dragon]

Just looking at the latest comments in here. It's weird, disturbing and distressing.

[Labster]

People are getting too worked up over this airline thing. I mean, c'mon, Trump's proposed changes to the NEPA process would probably kill ten thousand Canadians. If you compare that to the 60 or so Canadians just killed in the crash, it's peanuts.

[Dartz]

I think it might be worth calling a halt to proceeding for a bit before the sniping gets a bit too sharp.