COVID-19 & US healthcare system

[Labster]

Panic is beginning to set in around Southern California. School closures, events are cancelled. Stores are running out of food and necessities.

I went to many different grocery stores today to find everything I need, and each of them were crowded. Every clerk at a register, and most had several people restocking the shelves while the store was open. Trader Joe's had run out of milk and peanut butter, and each side of the freezer aisle was practically empty as people stockpiled the prepared food. Winco was a mad house, with several aisles very low on canned goods, and employees unsure when their next shipment of stuff would arrive. Target was completely sold out of toilet paper, as was Costco. Costco had a sign up that water was limited to one case per person, yet there were no cases of water remaining (are people expecting the tap water to be shut off?). Smart & Final, a local chain that moved more mainstream from being a restaurant grocer about ten years back, fared the best. The main problem here is that the only cart available had a broken wheel -- luckily I'm strong. Finding shopping carts (trolleys) was a problem every where. Our local Kroger outlet , Vons, was the least crowded and had the most variety, but were still nearly out of the things everyone else was: toilet paper, dry beans, peanut butter, and bottled water. Or rather, I should say Vons had the most variety of things that people don't want to buy but some company paid for shelf space (and they wonder why they keep losing market share). Lowe's, the hardware store, still had lots of single-ply toilet paper, and piled it conveniently near the front door. Of course, they were out of breathing masks.

Luckily I was smart enough to stock up on the the things they sold out of two weeks ago. We're now packed to the gills, and the freezer is full. Out here in California, we know we cannot rely on the government to handle the outbreak, so it's time to hunker down. Individual schools are still deciding whether or not to close, as are conferences. Here's hoping we all come out on the other side alive!

[Jinx999]

I went shopping yesterday. The supermarket was completely sold out of rice, pasta and toilet paper. I'm just glad I don't need those, but if I hadn't bought paper last week, I'd be down to a roll and a 1/4.

[LynnInDenver]

There's some panic starting to set in here, too. Denver closed all their public venues yesterday, including Red Rocks Amphitheater, libraries, rec centers, etc, until the middle of April.

My husband just went out to the store across the street, which doesn't seem to be too bad (we live not too far from a slightly lower income area), with the intent to do some stocking up on a few categories we were low on.

We still have plenty of toilet paper in the house - we do a 12-18 month purchase at Costco which tends to carry us a long ways, and there's still plenty of rolls left from the last purchase.

There's supposed to be an anime convention next weekend, but I'm expecting it to get cancelled. No, we weren't planning on going.

BTW, my week's vacation has started... we'll see what it looks like by next weekend. We're not planning on going out all that much.

[RMH999]

Colorado Anime Fest was cancelled (con chair is a friend). Louisville is getting there as well for panic buying - I'm glad we stocked up last week.

*just shakes head* Perhaps it's due to working with viruses for 20 years, but really people... Yes, be diligent and careful because it is NOT the flu (no matter what Fox says) but it isn't doomsday!

[robkelk]

I've been ordered to telework. The order came through after hours yesterday, so I'll have to go in for a few minutes to get my laptop...

[SilverFang01]

Several activities have been cancelled here in Jacksonville, FL.
we are monitoring some cases but none officially confirmed, yet.

Puerto Rico got confirmation of two cases last night, after a few embarrassing incidents due to mismanagement by the local government.
The Puerto Rico Health Secretary was made to resign last night.

[classicdrogn]

Just got back from the grocery myself, not stocking up per se but it had been a couple weeks so it was a large order. There was not a single roll of toilet paper in the place, not that it was on my list, nor loaf of bread (more annoying, but some pitas and levash wraps will do) or sardines. Didn't see anything else completely out except hand sanitizer (as expected,) but there had been a great slaughter amongst the pasta and ramen noodles. Certain kinds of frozen veggies too, though only one of the sorts I was after. And I got the last jar of garlic powder, woo.

[LynnInDenver]

The only thing my husband couldn't get on the list was rice, but he stocked us up on everything else food related. He happened to get there right as they restocked the meats, that's one of the areas where people have been panic buying here. We should be good for about a month right now.

Other fandom events have been falling. The Texas Pinball Festival cancelled out (well, naturally I have interest in the pinball community, so this was in my feed), and the Pinball Showdown and Gameroom Expo here in Denver has mentioned they're still proceeding with the show, at least for now, but that's Memorial Day weekend. We'll see what happens as we get closer. They are planning on provided sanitizing options, given the nature of the beast that is a pinball show (multitudes of people of unknown sanitary status handling buttons with fingers).

Governor Polis strongly recommended that events of 250 or more people be cancelled, especially if people can't maintain an appropriate level of personal separation in the planned event space.

The current overreactions may finally convince us to get a bidet for the upstairs toilet.

[Dartz]

Drove into town today rather than take the public transport. Easy to find parking at Stephens Green, picked up one or two things to do if it becomes a full lockdown, wandered around shooting people, and then went home. The pubs are bustling, tourists are ambling around. People are bopping around the Phoenix Park.

It's quieter than normal, but still sort of normal.

There's a 100 person limit indoors, 500 outdoors and other than that, not much has changed.

The mammy and the oulfella are isolating themselves.

[Norgarth]

This is at a store in my home town (where I often shop in fact), the day after the Pandemic was declared

[Matrix Dragon]

From midnight, all travelers to Australia will be required to self-isolate for 14 days. We'll see how THAT works...

[Rajvik]

Current US Cases per CDC

Total cases: 1,629
Total deaths: 41

link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...in-us.html

maybe i'm an asshole, actually i know i am, but i'm about sick of the damn hypocrisy, as much as you want to scream Orange Man Bad and blame Trump for this, it's not his fault. Blame the fucking Chinese and your Globalism.

Also, quit fucking panicking, almost all of you are young, this causes issues for older people, and seems to only kill those (so far) with pre-existing conditions and those that can't get health care like those poor italian elders who are being told to go home because they don't have room for them. (yeah, hows that socialized medicine working for you there huh?)
But most of you are either going to ignore this, or just lash out because i'm another one of those dastardly conservatives that seem to want to put America first above the great global humanity

[Matrix Dragon]

... You know what? Yeah, I'm going to ignore the bigoted asshole. Bye.

[classicdrogn]

Was anyone blaming Trump? For turning down the WHO test kits, I suppose, and responses that are more style than substance. The orange moron is bad in that respect, though, because a lack of effective action is going to mean more people die. Even if it's not members here personally - and I for one would reccommend no one bet on that given my own health, let alone my father - that's a heavy cost for the nation, and the rest of the world due to increased numbers of infected poeple to spread from let alone any economic effects.

The virus itself? Of course that's nothing to do with Trump. Trump has everything to do with Dad talking about having to vote Anathema Democrat for the first time ever, but the universe at large is unconcerned with human affairs on that level. If it was, a meteorite or lightning strike would be far more likely to be effective anyway.

edit: And to address Raj's apparent main point, yes, cases in the US are low so far. It's just getting started on us, like it was just getting started in Europe weeks ago. How it's predicted to go from here is where the numbers get troubling.

[Matrix Dragon]

To be fair Classic, half the reason the confirmed cases are so low is because the USA is lagging behind on testing possible cases. Some of the stories I'm hearing are making it pretty clear that there's a lot of people that have all the symptoms, but aren't being tested due to lack of test kits, but also mass confusion over who does the testing where. The massive slashes to the CDC over the past few years haven't helped.

Meanwhile, over here in Australia, there's a lot of miscommunication going on at the top levels, as Morrison's realization he could salvage his image after the bushfires made him a laughing stock collided with his obedience to his cult leader. Even with organisations cancelling events and limiting sporting events to television only, he refused to bite the bullet, mostly because the Hillsong Church had a massive 'superchurch' event this weekend. Can't cancel that tax-free scam, after all.

[Dartz]

Triage is expected in any healthcare system. What's happening in Italy is what happens in any disaster where there're not enough medics to deal with the casualties. Some people are given the black tag because they can't be saved - so it would waste resources to try and save them. Never mind that Italy-contray to the reputation of the Italian Government - has one of the most capable medical systems in the world.

In the US, the same decision is made according to the ability to pay. Doesn't matter what your survival chances are - the doctors will keep you alive as long as you can continue to pay them. Or, as long as the death panel in your insurance company thinks its finacially viable to pay them. That seems a little bit wrong to me.

Never mind that it is widly believed - and can be inferred from genetic analysis of the Virus - that infection has been moving undetected in the US for weeks. The low quantity of detections is directly related to the low quantity of tests. It's like at Chernobyl where they reported 3.6 Roentgen per hour from an open reactor core - because the meter didn't go anyway higher.

[Matrix Dragon]

Triage is expected in any healthcare system. What's happening in Italy is what happens in any disaster where there're not enough medics to deal with the casualties. Some people are given the black tag because they can't be saved - so it would waste resources to try and save them. Never mind that Italy-contray to the reputation of the Italian Government - has one of the most capable medical systems in the world.

From what I understand, the Black Tag approach in Italy is still being considered as a worst-case scenario, not one that's been implemented already. The fact they've been willing to speak publicly of it is still terrifying though.

[hazard]

Current US Cases per CDC

Total cases: 1,629
Total deaths: 41

link:  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...in-us.html

Current cases in the Netherlands according to John Hopkins University:

Total cases: 959
Total deaths: 12

maybe i'm an asshole, actually i know i am, but i'm about sick of the damn hypocrisy, as much as you want to scream Orange Man Bad and blame Trump for this, it's not his fault.

The virus? No, that's not his fault.

The utterly lacking and incompetent response to it as showcased by the USA so far? Yes, yes that is his fault.

Blame the fucking Chinese and your Globalism.

Although the early spread of the virus in Hubei is the fault of the Chinese government's attempts to suppress information and thus effective response (very much like Trump's denial of facts for his political convenience), once they clued in that didn't work they responded swiftly and thoroughly to suppress the virus' spread as much as possible. Quite successfully actually. South Korea and Singapore, having the example of the Chinese, imposed extensive measures much earlier, and to good success.

Italy did not, and is paying the cost.

And frankly? Globalism isn't much of a factor here. Cheap and fast international travel for tourists is, and that would be a big thing even if globalism wasn't. Slower travel would've allowed a more effective quarantine, especially when the method of sending the message ensures that there's not risk of contamination. Diseases like measles and smallpox spread between towns because of human to human contact, maintaining quarantine between infected towns and cities became much easier with the invention of the telegraph because messages travel much faster than people and did not need to be carried by people to their destination. At the same time, the invention of rail roads made it harder because people could and would travel much farther much more easily.

Also, quit fucking panicking, almost all of you are young, this causes issues for older people, and seems to only kill those (so far) with pre-existing conditions and those that can't get health care like those poor italian elders who are being told to go home because they don't have room for them. (yeah, hows that socialized medicine working for you there huh?)

I will note that the major Republican support in the USA is 1) old people, and 2)those living paycheck to paycheck, who thus 3) can't afford to go to the hospital for treatment or even diagnosis, 4) won't know they are infected in case they are lucky and have minor symptoms and merely pass it off as a nasty flu or cold and 5) have a strong sense of family values who will be more likely to spend long hours travelling to visit their elderly family who have fallen ill.

And that socialized healthcare is working out pretty well actually. Does triage because of overstretched resources suck? Yes it does, especially for those who end up with the short end. But it allows us a grasp of the situation, get at least some effective treatment in even for those who are badly effected and makes sure that people who are infected at least know they are infected and able to take precautions.

What you see in Italy? That's what happens when a nasty virus spreads out of control. Italy is trying very much to ensure proper care to everyone. The USA? You aren't going to see poor USA elders turned away from hospitals because they have no capacity. They are going to be turned away because they have no money, or take on massive debts, die, and leave the debts to their inheritors, or have no money, try and get a loan for medical reasons and be denied. And all that while rich people who are minimally at risk get care and bump the poor out of hospital care because the rich can spend large sums of money.

But most of you are either going to ignore this, or just lash out because i'm another one of those dastardly conservatives that seem to want to put America first above the great global humanity

Eh, you are a reactionary, nationalistic asshole. What else is new? Once the USA might even have been worthy of being above the great global humanity, but that time is long, long gone.

[SilverFang01]

President Donald Trump tried to poach German scientists working on a cure for the coronavirus so he could secure exclusive rights to a potential vaccine for the US only.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ad...ure-2020-3

Also, the original story in German: https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article20...Firma.html

[LynnInDenver]

Sweet Maker, SilverFang.

Our ski resorts have closed, for at least a week on State orders, probably for much longer than that.

Given that we're now starting to see curfews and orders to close bars and restaurants (except for food delivery) out of New Jersey, I'm keeping an eye on the news to see when such measures gets rolled out here. We're definitely inching into that direction, all libraries and indoors park facilities have been closed now.

[SilverFang01]

Raj, keep the antisemític dogwhistles and your racism out of the thread.

Conservatives are always complaining about how their vision of government with their focus on deregulation and free market solutions to everything is what this country needs to always come on top. That the reduction of government services and its capabilities to manage crisis are a necessity in order to bring about a renaissance of a largely mythical past.

For almost 40 years, conservatism has been able to implement their policies and ideas with minimum interference and sometimes the willing cooperation of the Democratic Party establishment. As a matter of fact, the election of Donald Trump was seen as a way to implement those changes faster, because a big sector of the electorate had run out of patience with the slow approach.

Well? This is the big test. The time to prove without a shadow of a doubt that you were right. That only you knew the road to the promised land.

I would have expected that Wall St. would have been cheering with the display of how effective hands off government is. Everyone naturally acting according to their self-interest without any need for government action.

Reality shows that is a failure. That Reagan was wrong. That the most terrifying words in the English language aren’t “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help,” but “You got to help me! I don't know what to do. I can't make decisions! I'm a president!”

When asked about firing the CDC pandemic response team in 2008? “I’m not responsible. That is a nasty question.”

This crisis is showing that crisis management is a crucial part of the president’s and government’s job. It’s not exclusively about media narratives, legislative fights, ideological struggle, and culture wars. When your primary qualification for the job is someone who will shake things up and show those bureaucrats and elitists who is boss?  You get the mismanagement seen during Katrina, Hurricane Maria, and now this.

You are mad because we are questioning Trump and his administration’s response to the crisis? If dear leader can't be criticized, can't be questioned, can't be asked for clarity, without you immediately and reflexively screaming in outrage...

...you're not in an a political movement. You're in a cult.

[Black Aeronaut]

In the meantime, I'm going to have to continue working Uber, whether I want to or not, because I'm behind on my bills.

Not that I'll be making much right now.

Due to Trump's policies, there will be no safety net for me if anything happens.  The only thing I've got going for me is that I'm on VA Healthcare.  But that pretty much leaves the rest of my family out in the cold, who will all be exposed if I get sick.

And again, no safety net here.  I'm having to go into court tomorrow for an eviction hearing because I've been so far behind on everything - barely even making enough money to buy food and all because I have to feed my brother, too, because he's homeless and can't get a job.  He does donate plasma for food money, but we got fucked over when they told him he's showing signs of diabetes and deferred him for a month until he could get his shit straightened out.

I don't wanna hear a goddamned thing that this is not the Republicans fault.  They want to kick people like me to the curb just because I don't make enough money to donate to their campaigns and because I am juuuuuust brown enough for them to call me a wetback, never mind that my family has been here (not just a general 'here', I mean literally in this geographical location) even before the French and Spaniards started coming through.

(Yeah, it turns out he's got Type 2 Diabetes.  Fun.)

[Dartz]

290. 380. 490. 636. 827. 1076. 1400. 1819. 2364. 3074. 3996. 5195. 6754. 8780. 11414. 14838

15000 By April.

Exponentials are a bitch.

School closures take effect around 4000.

Most of those last 3000 where infected on the last night the bars were open.

And then the effect of last night's closedown comes into play.

[Labster]

Only 15 days until the official census day in the United States, April 1.  This time, we're going biblical, with most people required to return and stay in their homes for the duration of the count.  Of course for people sent home, like college students in dorms, they won't be counted at home but they are supposed to be counted at the college.

[Matrix Dragon]

Plasma for food money... Fucks sake... BA, anything someone over in Australia can do to toss some help your way?