COVID-19 & US healthcare system - thread relapse

[SilverFang01]

ReOpen NC leader says she tested positive for COVID-19

Here is something absolutely unsurprising in every possible way.

[LynnInDenver]

And, of course, upset that she's expected to quarantine at home as a result of that.

[hazard]

ReOpen NC leader says she tested positive for COVID-19

Here is something absolutely unsurprising in every possible way.

Site unavailable in the EU as CBS17 is not compliant with EU data privacy regulations and unwilling to expose themselves to liability by allowing access from the EU.


Also, yes that's rather unsurprising. And really, if she wants North Carolina to open up she has to comply with the quarantine order, because otherwise everybody has to remain in quarantine to protect themselves from her.

[SilverFang01]

More problems with meat processing plants:
Meat processing plants across the US are closing due to the pandemic. Will consumers feel the impact?

Concerns about the US food chain supply made their way into the mainstream this week, as more meat processing and packaging plants suspend operations temporarily due to coronavirus outbreaks in the workforce.
Some of the country's largest abattoirs (processing plants or slaughterhouses) have been forced to cease operations temporarily after thousands of employees across the country have tested positive for the virus.

This could spark a food crisis in the US.

[Matrix Dragon]

And, of course, upset that she's expected to quarantine at home as a result of that.

What a fucking bitch. "How dare I face consequences for my actions and be forced to quarantine for the good of others!"

[Labster]

The chickens will feel the impact, that's for damn sure:

2 million chickens will be killed in Delaware and Maryland because of lack of employees at processing plants

[classicdrogn]

Earlier today:

A: What's the biggest problem in America today? The PLAGUE!
B: Well, obv--
A: President Lacking All Generosity, Understancding, & Empathy!
B: ... I can't argue with that.

[SilverFang01]

Does getting COVID-19 confer you immunity? 8-ball says it’s too early to tell.
https://youtu.be/7KBLtUBr1Os

[Dartz]

In Ireland, Varadkar's an actual medical Doctor - so he's been chipping in for appearrances sake.



Now, of course, can you imagine Donald Trump leading from the front like a 'wartime president' - personally giving the faithful their shot of Dettol.

--- and yeah, deleted a post. Was drunk and tried to delete in last night and missed the tickbox.

[classicdrogn]

What a horrifying thought. Just imagine how many more people would have fallen for his snake oil pitch with hydroxylchloroquine and/or various chemicals that sound vaguely the same (close enough for the executive summary, right?) if he had somehow bought an actual medical degree, because you know even if it came from the University of Crackerjacks he'd be tootling his horn like he does about being such a rich, successful businessman.

[Labster]

Since Trump never actually ordered anything closed, he can't order anything back open.

Unless...

And this is crazy town...

So in 2007, Congress in their wisdom decided to give the President the authority to invoke martial law in states and take direct control of their National Guard without the consent of the governors. It has to be a situation in which a right enumerated in the Constitution where the governor cannot or will not enforce that right. So, freedom of assembly? Prohibiting the free exercise of religion? Stopping the right to bear arms by closing gun stores? I think the legal right is probably there. Martial law has been used in the U.S. in the past to get people to return to work, like in the SF dockworkers strike.

The only downside to this idea is starting a civil war in the middle of a pandemic, so there is that.

Welcome to crazy town, folks!  AG Barr says state orders for containing COVID-19 may violate Constitution.  So here's our Attorney General trying to lay the groundwork for this, in a move that is classic Barr.  Does Trump want him to to this?  Probably not, or maybe only some days of the week.  But dollars to donuts AG Barr has the same crackpot idea I had *and* he also thinks it's a good idea.

And in terms of the strikebreaking idea, Trump has just ordered slaughterhouses and meat packing plants to reopen -- the ones that have been closed because of large scale epidemics among the workers.  Unions are not happy about the life-threatening conditions at work.  But hey, maybe we can consider The Jungle a futuristic book now?

[robkelk]

Trump orders U.S. meat-processing plants to stay open despite coronavirus fears

As Trump moves to keep meat-processing plants open, Trudeau stresses workers' safety

[SilverFang01]

Trump orders U.S. meat-processing plants to stay open despite coronavirus fears

As Trump moves to keep meat-processing plants open, Trudeau stresses workers' safety

He can't bear it if both KFC and McDonalds close down due to lack of supplies.

[Dartz]

Food production here is essential.

But we're also not getting the same sort of factory clusters the US is.

Then again, I doubt our plants are as large either.

[LynnInDenver]

...yeah, this smacks of somebody who recognizes that, if the food supply suffers, then guaranteed he's got a fight in the upcoming election. Financials he can possibly push off on the decisions of the states to close things down... a food crisis, even if it was just focused on meat, would be something else entirely, especially if it's because of something other than financials. Few people can ignore that there is absolutely legitimate reasons for a meat plant to close when there's a pandemic going on, and that the national response has been less than ideal in terms of dealing with it. And there are ways other than "I'm ordering you to stay open and work" to deal with a food shortage. Although all of the other ways likely involve us having to eat crow with trading "partners" that have been getting jerked around for the past three and a half years.

[Dartz]

Ordering people to their potential deaths to keep up the appearrance of a functional political system is - well - you know where that reminds me of.


I mean. We're disposing of food that can't be sold because most fast food restaraunts are closed. Or the regular restaraunts - or half of europe.

[LynnInDenver]

Ordering people to their potential deaths to keep up the appearrance of a functional political system is - well - you know where that reminds me of.

That's par for the course for the U.S. at this point. Hells, we're so late capitalism at this point that I'm amazed we've been able to be locked down as long as we have; as it is, we've got a distinct minority in the government making noises about being closed up, and it's all the way down the ladder. There's a Colorado county that a couple of the Republicans in that county have made noises that they need to abandon the Tri-County Health organization because it had enough authority to order Stay At Home (and did so)... that turns out to be the one county that's not extended the order past the State order.

[Dartz]

The questions are being asked here aswell. There's an undercurrent of frustration starting to build. The reality is - nobody's quite sure when is the right moment to re-open. It's not like Appollo 13 where there's a defined moment where you Have to power things back up - it's much guesswork. Especially since we've no idea how endemic the virus is - the rate of 'Community Transmission' in known cases suggests it's massive.

1/4 cases is a healthcare worker. Only a few of them caught it in the course of their duties - most got it outside the hospital. They're overrepresented because they're overtested.

[LynnInDenver]

The questions are being asked here aswell. There's an undercurrent of frustration starting to build. The reality is - nobody's quite sure when is the right moment to re-open. It's not like Appollo 13 where there's a defined moment where you Have to power things back up - it's much guesswork.  Especially since we've no idea how endemic the virus is -  the rate of 'Community Transmission' in known cases suggests it's massive.

1/4 cases is a healthcare worker. Only a few of them caught it in the course of their duties - most got it outside the hospital. They're overrepresented because they're overtested.

That's definitely been part of the problem... the benefit to certain cases of quarantine is that you actually know when you're getting back out. This hasn't been that case, which makes the "ants in the pants" sensation that much worse. We could even do "safer at home" and then find ourselves back in "stay at home" within two weeks for a much longer period of time, or it could be the exact opposite and finding that either everyone who's going to get sick already has, or that there's so little of it out there now that the R0 is well under 1. Or anywhere in between.

[hazard]

New York has done a thorough sampling of its population for COVID-19 antibody testing and found that about 21% of the population already has antibodies against the virus. There's also plenty of evidence that the disease entered New York City through Europe in January. Things are... pretty bad, all things told, but if the number of infected relative to the population is accurate COVID-19 is much less lethal than we have believed.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, I can see where it may be better than expected... the biggest issue is they still don't know what the true "percentage of fatality" is, they don't know what sorts of things to look for to predict when it drives the immune system into overdrive to cause the fatality when the pneumonia doesn't do one in, and even if having the antibodies confers any sort of even short-term immunity (technically it's still untested, there's admissions that some of the tests are weighted towards false-positives for safety's sake, it hasn't been long enough with any verified recoveries, and with lock-downs going on, who knows when we'll actually begin to find out), 21% isn't enough for herd immunity. There's still a chance that it could overwhelm an area's hospital system (in whatever wave).

[hazard]

Generally you need 95%+ of the population to be immune to a disease to confer herd immunity anyway, and COVID-19 is so easily transmitted I wouldn't be surprised if it'd take 99%+.

And herd immunity isn't immunity for the individual. All it means is that the disease has great difficulty spreading in a specific population, but if it manages to get into a vulnerable population things can go badly wrong, as we see often enough when things like polio or measles get into an anti-vaccination community and spread like the plagues they are.

[Labster]

We open the beaches here in Ventura County, and Orange County did the same. Then all of the LA people flooded in to go to the beach, and they got crowded, because they couldn't go to the local beaches. The governor is not happy, and he's talking about closing the beaches statewide.

But it's really the outsiders causing the problem. Just post some signs at the beach that say "TOWNIES ONLY - NO BEACH ACCESS FOR NONRESIDENTS (Especially you Steve Lopez)"

[hazard]

And suddenly there are a lot more townies, Labster. More than you would ever believe.

[Black Aeronaut]

...yeah, this smacks of somebody who recognizes that, if the food supply suffers, then guaranteed he's got a fight in the upcoming election. Financials he can possibly push off on the decisions of the states to close things down... a food crisis, even if it was just focused on meat, would be something else entirely, especially if it's because of something other than financials. Few people can ignore that there is absolutely legitimate reasons for a meat plant to close when there's a pandemic going on, and that the national response has been less than ideal in terms of dealing with it. And there are ways other than "I'm ordering you to stay open and work" to deal with a food shortage. Although all of the other ways likely involve us having to eat crow with trading "partners" that have been getting jerked around for the past three and a half years.

Really, when you look at this administration - everything they've been doing since eight o'clock day one - it's been the perfect storm version of "How Not To Run Your Federalist Country".

Trump has:

• Systematically dismantled or crippled Federal-level emergency management systems
  
• Pandered to corporate interests, making an already flawed* healthcare system even worse
  
• Intentionally stifled trade, thereby limiting our ability to cope with internal situations that could prove to be destabilizing (e.g.: food crisis)
  
• Placed yes-men in every position of power, and fired people the moment they told him he can't do a certain thing
  
• Overrode common sense decisions of our military leaders (which can have further knock-on effects on trade)
  

* - Yes, I am perfectly willing to say that "Obama Care" never lived up to the hype.  But this is because a re-badged version of Romney Care was the only goddamned thing the Republicans in Congress would allow through, and at the time that was a helluva lot better than nothing!