All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XVII

[Bob Schroeck]

If I knew anything about it... but it's not even in our queue of anime to watch right now.

[robkelk]

I was about to ask "what happened to the page images?", but then I noticed that Miraheze is working on the Phabricator requests that Geth and I submitted last week...

[robkelk]

I managed to get the Mass edit using regular expressions page to work properly. (Just after the dump Geth wanted was taken, alas.) Running my Bot tasks now...

[GethN7]

I managed to get the Mass edit using regular expressions page to work properly. (Just after the dump Geth wanted was taken, alas.) Running my Bot tasks now...

Quick and dirty rename you might want to do. the "American Dad" pages should be renamed "American Dad!" since there is an exclamation point in the title.

[robkelk]

I'll do that as a manual job, since it involves a category name change too.

---

The wiki just saw fit to congratulate me on making 100,000 edits... Maybe I should take a break.

EDIT: I should have taken a break - I just botched a run, and trying to undo it with another run just made things worse. 200 pages, all to have the last two edits undone by hand... RE-EDIT: ...and done.

[Bob Schroeck]

(reposted from a talk page on ATT)

Are professional athletes "creators"?

I say no.

I've been thinking about this since this article (a creator page for an Estonian race driver) appeared earlier this week. We document Professional Wrestlers because it has been an open secret for decades now that pro wrestling is not a sport, it's a show with defined characters, plots and its own tropes -- indeed, we use a lot of pro wresting terminology for trope names (Kayfabe, Heel Face Turn and many more) precisely ''because'' they reflect the creation of stories. But genuine sports are ''not'' storytelling -- there is no creation of fiction in the actions of a profession athlete in his chosen arena (unless, of course, they're cheating).

I move that Professional Athletes -- including race drivers -- are Out Of Scope for All The Tropes and don't have a place here. I'm going to put a {{delete}} template on the page for that reason, but before we act on it I want to raise the question for discussion.

[GethN7]

(reposted from a talk page on ATT)

Are professional athletes "creators"?

I say no.

I've been thinking about this since this article (a creator page for an Estonian race driver) appeared earlier this week.  We document Professional Wrestlers because it has been an open secret for decades now that pro wrestling is not a sport, it's a show with defined characters, plots and its own tropes -- indeed, we use a lot of pro wresting terminology for trope names (Kayfabe, Heel Face Turn and many more) precisely ''because'' they reflect the creation of stories.  But genuine sports are ''not'' storytelling -- there is no creation of fiction in the actions of a profession athlete in his chosen arena (unless, of course, they're cheating). 

I move that Professional Athletes -- including race drivers -- are Out Of Scope for All The Tropes and don't have a place here.  I'm going to put a {{delete}} template on the page for that reason, but before we act on it I want to raise the question for discussion.

While I agree on the wrestling front, I'm not so sure on the sports side. After all, some athletes have specifically tropable things they do that can make them stand out in their chosen profession, and some athletes have made the jump to actual acting like Micheal Jordan.

[robkelk]

Let me ponder this for a few hours, please.

[Bob Schroeck]

After all, some athletes have specifically tropable things they do that can make them stand out in their chosen profession, and some athletes have made the jump to actual acting like Micheal Jordan.

Let me rephrase, then. Professional athletes who are only athletes, who have not made efforts in a creative field such as an actor or author, are out of scope. We are not All The Sports. Being able to hit a baseball, bowl a wicked googly, or make a goal does not make a person a "creator".

Let me ponder this for a few hours, please.

Certainly.

[GethN7]

After all, some athletes have specifically tropable things they do that can make them stand out in their chosen profession, and some athletes have made the jump to actual acting like Micheal Jordan.

Let me rephrase, then.  Professional athletes who are only athletes, who have not made efforts in a creative field such as an actor or author, are out of scope.  We are not All The Sports.  Being able to hit a baseball, bowl a wicked googly, or make a goal does not make a person a "creator".

That's more than fair. Unless they do something more notable than just sports-related activity with relevant trope worthy inclusion, then yes, I see your point on limiting the scope.

[robkelk]

With that rephrasing, my doubts have vanished. Agreed that athletes per se are not creators.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thanks. I'll let it sit until tomorrow just to make sure no one shows up late with an eloquent, unrefutable objection, but failing that I'll then put it in the creator guidelines and nuke the new page.

[Bob Schroeck]

Meanwhile, on another topic entirely, Miraheze has evidently decided we've had it too well for too long. I am currently getting the following instead of about one in ten pages, although a reload usually gets rid of it:

Error 429 Varnish Rate Limit Exceeded
Varnish Rate Limit Exceeded

Guru Meditation:
XID: 1999043

Varnish cache server

[robkelk]

Likewise, although I though that was because I was also doing bot jobs in the background.

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. Could be.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thanks.  I'll let it sit until tomorrow just to make sure no one shows up late with an eloquent, unrefutable objection, but failing that I'll then put it in the creator guidelines and nuke the new page.

Outside of an extended dialogue with the page's creator Blakegripling ph, in which (s)he at least partially yielded to my point, there have been no objects.  I'm going ahead with this.

[robkelk]

Rob, coming up on the one-month mark for reviewing the anonymous login policy.

Thanks, Bob. I'll make the announcement next week.

Or maybe not. Somebody blanked the title of the forum discussion - which has made the entire discussion inaccessible. Again.

I've updated the sitenotice:

It has been a month since we last asked about allowing anonymous editing of this wiki; it is time to review that decision again. However, somebody has blanked the title of the forum discussion, making the entire discussion inaccessible. Again. Since even discussion of this issue attracts vandalism, we will not be reviewing the decision this month.

[LynnInDenver]

I would say as an outside observer, that it should be policy that, if the discussion about whether or not to allow something is vandalized regularly, it's probably a sign that the policy change (in this case to allow anonymous editing) should be shelved entirely, and no longer brought up for review.

Does it suck that anonymous editing can't be allowed? Yes, it does, but this is the internet, and there's too many people out there that make it so you can't have nice things because they like to break them for their own gain.

[Bob Schroeck]

Agreed. If they make it so we can't discuss the topic seriously, then let us not discuss the topic and never return to the question.

[robkelk]

Sounds good to me. Sitenotice updated.

[GethN7]

Could one of you gentlemen with admin access drop a copy of the latest image dump from SpecialataDump on archive.org ot somewhere similar for me. I have no access of it because I don't have my admin bit on Miraheze now.

[robkelk]

My ISP and Miraheze don't like to share such large files, alas, so I can't grab a copy to upload to anywhere.

[GethN7]

My ISP and Miraheze don't like to share such large files, alas, so I can't grab a copy to upload to anywhere.

Well then, could I, as a special dispensation because of the circumstances, have at least my admin bit back to snag such a thing for myself then? I don't need bureaucrat rights for that, and I have no intention of asking for those back until at least Christmas in light of what caused my stepping down.

When I've finished getting it (and it will take awhile cause of the size), I'll ask the admin bit be removed, unless you guys believe I can be trusted to leave it alone afterwards, as I had every intention of staying away from ATT Miraheze in a position of authority otherwise, but this particular circumstance otherwise requires me to have one.

UPDATE: Scratch the above, they are going to leave it available in their static directory soon because it's too large to grab otherwise. I can handle it from there without needing the admin bit.

[robkelk]

As discussed by PMs - welcome back to the Moderation Staff, Geth!

[GethN7]

As discussed by PMs - welcome back to the Moderation Staff, Geth!

Evveryone, I only am an admin again, NOT a bureaucrat, this is something I insisted on because I surrendered bureaucrat rights over breaking some of the most fundamental policy for anyone in authority, and I deserve a punishment for that, and not before Christmas will I consider petitioning for that back. As for the admin right, I will be having that on a probationary basis, entirely based on the goodwill of the other staff, and I intend to use those powers only when policy appropriate. I generally plan to confine myself to Wikia still since it still needs the help and for doing admin work on Miraheze and because I can use my admin account for use with my bot (which I will be happy to turn loose for Miraheze and Wikia use for whatever needs to be done again).

That aside, I consider myself fortunate the other staff have seen fit to give me this probationary restoration of admin rights, and I hope I can prove during this period I have learned the folly of why I had to give them up.

P.S. - While I will NOT be interfering with whether we still cover the Netflix movie "Cuties", it seems that Netflix has been indicted for it's portrayal of children for the prurient interest. I shall recuse myself from any decision making nor use my admin powers like why I left last time without collegial consent, but this is what I feared would come to pass:

https://twitter.com/RepMattSchaefer/stat...7942212608

Netflix is being indicted for the movie "Cuties" by the State of Texas, citing it was produced to appeal to the prurient interest concerning minors.

I shall leave any decisions going forward on what ATT does legally on this to the discretion of the other staff members.