2020 Election - The curtain starts coming down

[Bob Schroeck]

Former Oklahoma GOP Congressman Mickey Edwards said that he is leaving the Republican party because it has become a “cult” led by Trump.

[Bob Schroeck]

From New York Magazine:

Trump Is on the Verge of Losing Everything

Among other things it brings up a point I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere, spinning off the established law that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt:

Remember how O. J. Simpson was ordered to pay $34 million to the families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, even after he beat the murder rap? The families of victims of the January 6 riot might well sue Trump for his role in inciting the violence. Trump might try pardoning himself to make sure he can’t be charged with criminal incitement, but admitting the crime makes it even easier to bring a civil suit against him.

[robkelk]

For lack of a better place to put this, because I've definitely not posting it outside of Politics.

"Now go away or we will impeach you a second time, you silly American K-President."

[Labster]

I need to share this one just because it's a really good piece of writing: Can Joe Biden make America great again?  Here's a taste: "Has there been, at least since Abraham Lincoln, an American president so melancholy? One so inclined to view the world through the lens, not just of history, but of eternity?"

Trump blows up the Arizona GOP on his way out - The state party seems to want to censure all of its members who are capable of winning statewide office, for the crime of not supporting the President's coup.  Personally, I'd like to thank Arizona GOP Chair Kelli Ward for all she has done to ensure Democrats get elected.

[robkelk]

On a lighter note... the D-list has confirmed attendance at the inauguration events. D as in Democrats, of course: Lady Gaga, J. Lo, Tom Hanks, Justin Timberlake, Jon Bon Jovi, Demi Lovato, Ant Clemons, Jason Alexander, David Arquette, Matt Bomer, Christopher Jackson, Ted Danson, Lea DeLaria, Keegan Michael-Key, Chrissy Metz, Mandy Patinkin, ...

"When Democrats win, you get the more standard celebrities," said [Presidential historian Tevi] Troy, author of What Jefferson Read, Ike Watched and Obama Tweeted: 200 Years of Popular Culture in the White House.

"With Republicans, you tend to get country music stars and race-car drivers." Referring to Lady Gaga's outspoken support for the Biden-Harris ticket, he said he was nostalgic for the days when celebrities were not so political.

"Call me a hopeless romantic, but I liked the old days when Bob Hope or Frank Sinatra would come to these events and they were not overtly political," he said.

[Bob Schroeck]

Apparently, Presidential pardons cost $2 million each, according to Giuliani.

[Bob Schroeck]

I am suddenly struck by the impulse to Fedex a package of mashed potatoes to Mar-a-lago for delivery on Wednesday... it's cruel, perhaps, but wasn't cruelty the crowning virtue of the Trump administration?

[hazard]

I must be missing an American culture reference here.

Would you please explain?

[Dartz]

I must be missing an American culture reference here.

Would you please explain?

I suppose it'd be getting fairly pungent by the time it arrived.

It's not fair on the employees, however.

[Bob Schroeck]

Oh, according to the book written by Trump's niece, published a few months ago, one of the most humiliating moments of Trump's childhood was when his older brother Fred -- then 14 at the time -- dumped a bowl of mashed potatoes on his head. And simply mentioning it decades later was enough to seriously upset him.

[Bob Schroeck]

Karl Rove: Trump will likely get convicted it Giuliani defends him in the Senate. Giuliani's announced plan: prove that election fraud did take place to justify Trump's language encouraging the insurrection.

Good luck with that, guy. If you can do that, why didn't you do it in the previous sixty court cases?

[Bob Schroeck]

Meanwhile, the marching morons are trying to get into DC with their choice of firearms. In addition to the guy mentioned earlier who tried to get in with a fake Inauguration invite, there are also these geniuses:

A guy with an unregistered gun and 500 rounds of ammunition. Claims he was lost and it was "an honest mistake".

A man walking down the street near Capitol Hill with a visibly holstered handgun, three high-capacity magazines, and 37 rounds of ammunition.

And a woman tried to get past a checkpoint by claiming she was both a police officer and a Cabinet member.

[SilverFang01]

Many people thank DC’s gun laws with ensuring that the insurrectionists weren’t armed like they’d been on other states capitols. Else, it would have been a bloodbath.

[Jinx999]

https://thebulwark.com/after-white-house...-facebook/

And the people that Trump's still metting with are . . . . out of their frigging minds.

There's no danger of Trump sucessfully declaring martial law. But is he deluded enough to try?

[robkelk]

Former FBI director James Comey suggests Biden should consider pardoning Trump

"Our Supreme Court, in 1915, said if you're pardoned and you accept that pardon, it's an admission of guilt," Comey said in an interview with The Current's Matt Galloway. "That's an important vehicle for accountability as well that people often don't talk about."

Although it's been talked about recently on this forum, at least.

Comey said the department should consider the "collateral consequences" of pursuing any criminal investigation.

"I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable. I think it was really important that he be impeached," he said.

But, he said, "it's not in the nation's interests to give this thug president, this nihilist, centre stage in America," by continuing to pursue him.

"Because that's what it would be. The United States versus Donald Trump would go on every day in the nation's capital for the next three or four years."

The new president's time would be better spent trying to heal political divides in the U.S. and reach people in what Comey described as Trump's "fog of lies."

"Having Donald Trump centre stage lying every day in the face of a bank of television cameras would make that so much more difficult."

He has a point. Why give a narcissist time in the spotlight, especially when there are more important things to deal with?

[robkelk]

Radio report on CBC says the fences in DC are not topped with normal barbed wire - they're topped with concertina wire.

Looks like they've finally built the wall... around the Capitol. Be careful what you ask for - you might get it.

[SilverFang01]

Former FBI director James Comey suggests Biden should consider pardoning Trump

"Our Supreme Court, in 1915, said if you're pardoned and you accept that pardon, it's an admission of guilt," Comey said in an interview with The Current's Matt Galloway. "That's an important vehicle for accountability as well that people often don't talk about."

Although it's been talked about recently on this forum, at least.

Comey said the department should consider the "collateral consequences" of pursuing any criminal investigation.

"I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable. I think it was really important that he be impeached," he said.

But, he said, "it's not in the nation's interests to give this thug president, this nihilist, centre stage in America," by continuing to pursue him.

"Because that's what it would be. The United States versus Donald Trump would go on every day in the nation's capital for the next three or four years."

The new president's time would be better spent trying to heal political divides in the U.S. and reach people in what Comey described as Trump's "fog of lies."

"Having Donald Trump centre stage lying every day in the face of a bank of television cameras would make that so much more difficult."

He has a point. Why give a narcissist time in the spotlight, especially when there are more important things to deal with?

Yes, lets listen to the FBI guy who pulled  a political hit job to ensure Trump would be elected, or failing that keep feeding the myth that Hillary Clinton was the spawn of Satan.

We should not require democracy to fail utterly before we take aggressive corrective action.

The work of defending democracy is often not sexy or dramatic. It requires more than the ritual of voting every 4 years. It requires sufficient dedication to follow current events and remain engaged. It requires a willingness to volunteer time for what may be the very boring purpose of following a local city council meeting or state legislative session. Perhaps more than anything, it requires putting our trust in the institutions and systems of government -- which in turn requires the work of making them trustworthy. Forgiving Trump is not conducive to that.

(I will not say "trustworthy again." Because whatever you think of their history, it is imperative to make them trustworthy going forward. "The work is not for you to finish, nor are you free to abandon it.")

One of the most heartening things is how many more millions of people are willing to do this now than were four years ago, or 20 years ago. Our current situation has its roots in citizen apathy and cynicism going back decades*. For too long, our national motto could have been "the best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passionate intensity." If you believe that all politics are inherently corrupting, if you believe that you are too good, to pure, or too busy to participate, then you abandon politics to the corrupt.”

Our system of democratic government has withstood its worst test since the Civil War. That was not an accident. Our system is stronger and more resilient than it seemed to many. No system can endure under stress forever, but we have not reached a point of no return.

*Which I believe started when we tried the forgive and forget approach with Nixon, and the only thing it did was provide assurances that no one who abused his power while office would ever be held accountable and led directly to Iran-Contra, Irak part 2, and the insurrection of January 6.

[Bob Schroeck]

Meanwhile, Lindsey Graham has asked Chuck Schumer to support a vote to dismiss the articles of impeachment. More "now that it suits our agenda, we must have unity" crap from a Republican.

[Bob Schroeck]

In better news, Congressional Qanon Qrazy Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene has had her Twitter temporarily suspended for spewing election misinformation.

[robkelk]

Former FBI director James Comey suggests Biden should consider pardoning Trump

"Our Supreme Court, in 1915, said if you're pardoned and you accept that pardon, it's an admission of guilt," Comey said in an interview with The Current's Matt Galloway. "That's an important vehicle for accountability as well that people often don't talk about."

Although it's been talked about recently on this forum, at least.

Comey said the department should consider the "collateral consequences" of pursuing any criminal investigation.

"I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable. I think it was really important that he be impeached," he said.

But, he said, "it's not in the nation's interests to give this thug president, this nihilist, centre stage in America," by continuing to pursue him.

"Because that's what it would be. The United States versus Donald Trump would go on every day in the nation's capital for the next three or four years."

The new president's time would be better spent trying to heal political divides in the U.S. and reach people in what Comey described as Trump's "fog of lies."

"Having Donald Trump centre stage lying every day in the face of a bank of television cameras would make that so much more difficult."

He has a point. Why give a narcissist time in the spotlight, especially when there are more important things to deal with?

Yes, lets listen to the FBI guy who pulled  a political hit job to ensure Trump would be elected, or failing that keep feeding the myth that Hillary Clinton was the spawn of Satan.

Nice ad hominen there, SilverFang01.

It doesn't matter where the idea comes from - it's still an idea worth examining.

We should not require democracy to fail utterly before we take aggressive corrective action.

The work of defending democracy is often not sexy or dramatic. It requires more than the ritual of voting every 4 years. It requires sufficient dedication to follow current events and remain engaged. It requires a willingness to volunteer time for what may be the very boring purpose of following a local city council meeting or state legislative session. Perhaps more than anything, it requires putting our trust in the institutions and systems of government -- which in turn requires the work of making them trustworthy. Forgiving Trump is not conducive to that.

(I will not say "trustworthy again." Because whatever you think of their history, it is imperative to make them trustworthy going forward. "The work is not for you to finish, nor are you free to abandon it.")

One of the most heartening things is how many more millions of people are willing to do this now than were four years ago, or 20 years ago. Our current situation has its roots in citizen apathy and cynicism going back decades*. For too long, our national motto could have been "the best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passionate intensity." If you believe that all politics are inherently corrupting, if you believe that you are too good, to pure, or too busy to participate, then you abandon politics to the corrupt.”

Our system of democratic government has withstood its worst test since the Civil War. That was not an accident. Our system is stronger and more resilient than it seemed to many. No system can endure under stress forever, but we have not reached a point of no return.

*Which I believe started when we tried the forgive and forget approach with Nixon, and the only thing it did was provide assurances that no one who abused his power while office would ever be held accountable and led directly to Iran-Contra, Irak part 2, and the insurrection of January 6.

But now it appears that somebody is being held accountable. We'll know for sure once the articles of impeachment are officially received by the Senate.

[hazard]

Silverfang is not wrong, Rob.

Although I can see the argument Comey is making being valid if Trump is successfully impeached and barred from all public offices in the future and only if it also means they pump him for everything they can.

Because frankly, Trump's the sort of idiot who will then think he can get away with lying again, and no he cannot.


But also, under no circumstances can the current Republican party be permitted to survive the current election cycle. It must be destroyed and all who supported Trump tarred and feathered, and hopefully rendered a millstone to the neck of all who they'd support in politics.

[robkelk]

Don't know whether he's right or wrong, but most of his reply doesn't address the suggestion that was raised. I thought we didn't like that sort of behaviour here, so I called it out.

---

AP: Trump allies involved in rally that ignited U.S. Capitol siege, records show

But an attachment to the National Park Service public gathering permit granted to the group lists more than half a dozen people in staff positions for the event who just weeks earlier had been paid thousands of dollars by Trump's 2020 re-election campaign. Other staff scheduled to be "on site" during the demonstration have close ties to the White House.

Since the siege, several of them have scrambled to distance themselves from the rally.

[Black Aeronaut]

Regardless of what Comey thinks, the primary issue is that Trump will spin a pardon as a victory of some kind.

I would much rather have him foaming at the mouth.

No, no.  I have a very good reason why.

Think about what happened in the Capitol.  Think about all those fucking lunatics.  Now, think about them going to ground once more.

Does that thought sound nice?

Didn't think so.

The thing about an angry Trump is that he's going to be calling for his supporters no matter what happens.  And regardless of any empty platitudes of unity, the element that will rally to support Trump in a do-or-die charge is the element that MUST BE PURGED.

People.  We need to clean house.  And we need to do so with the tools of due process.

But in order to use those tools, we need these assholes to hang themselves.

We've already seen that they aren't too bright.  They're Monkey D. Luffy levels of stupid - he'd jump into a hot oven if someone threw a pork chop in there.

And in this case?  Trump is the pork chop, and the oven is the Judicial Branch of the United States Government.

Let's throw the pork chop in there and see how many people follow him in.

[robkelk]

And that's post #300. New thread is new