All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXI

[Bob Schroeck]

Guys... check out this change to "Troubled Production" by User:Economy in the moderation queue and compare it the history of the page. Is it just me or has Economy been edit-warring with himself, starting with what appears to be an anonymous edit from 24.45.95.78 back on July 16, 2018?

[Black Aeronaut]

Not often I actually look at this stuff, but a cursory glance...

"Economy" strikes me as that special sort of Aspie who doesn't think what they're doing through very carefully, and are very much ignorant of how their wishie-washy-ness looks like to outside perspectives.

[robkelk]

Oh, dear... I just moved all the examples on Troubled Production to subpages. Did anybody approve or reject the change before I did that?

[GethN7]

Not often I actually look at this stuff, but a cursory glance...

"Economy" strikes me as that special sort of Aspie who doesn't think what they're doing through very carefully, and are very much ignorant of how their wishie-washy-ness looks like to outside perspectives.

As an Aspie myself (yeah, I am one and don't consider it an insult, don't stop using the term on my account, I'm a big boy), I concur entirely. Decided to go check out all the stuff they cited, and they basically kept updating the info on their own weird little soap opera concerning their Pokemon lemon fanfic writing history, entirely oblivious to how obvious their own work under an anon account and later their own name looks like their blog drama leaking on our wiki.

It's what Encyclopedia Dramatica calls 'Writing yourself into an article", but this seems less "whoring for attention" and more "sharing their Livejournal with the world in a really hamfisted way".

I rejected their latest attempt edit in light of Rob's page move changes, it would just confuse things.

[robkelk]

Has anybody else had to re-login multiple times this morning?

[Bob Schroeck]

Just once, but it was unexpected. I usually stay logged in all the time.

[Umbire]

Having trouble with that now...

[Bob Schroeck]

Shared my preliminary findings with Bob, but given the sheer gravity of the red flag I discovered making it public the guy who wanted to rewrite our Adolf Hitler page is on thin ice: <snip>

An update for non-mods.  Evidence turned up that this guy was a Hitler fanboy and Nazi apologist who's been booted from other sites before, and who had only approached us the way he did because the Moderation tool prevented him from doing a drive-by edit and turning the Hitler page into a Nazi hagiography.   

Regardless, he's permabanned now.

[robkelk]

Shared my preliminary findings with Bob, but given the sheer gravity of the red flag I discovered making it public the guy who wanted to rewrite our Adolf Hitler page is on thin ice: <snip>

An update for non-mods.  Evidence turned up that this guy was a Hitler fanboy and Nazi apologist who's been booted from other sites before, and who had only approached us the way he did because the Moderation tool prevented him from doing a drive-by edit and turning the Hitler page into a Nazi hagiography.   

Regardless, he's permabanned now.

I support this decision. As I said in a PM, someone else's desire to exercise freedom of expression places no onus on us to provide a venue in which to do so.

[GethN7]

Okay, the bot policy proposal is pretty seasoned by now, any last-call stuff before we declare it official? I've seen no further objections or a hint of a no vote, hence my question.

[Bob Schroeck]

Nothing here. Go for it.

[robkelk]

I haven't even looked at it. At this point, I doubt I could add anything.

[GethN7]

Bot policy is now live and ready for bot job requests. To my fellow admins, please make further improvements to the pages I created if need be.

[Umbire]

Shared my preliminary findings with Bob, but given the sheer gravity of the red flag I discovered making it public the guy who wanted to rewrite our Adolf Hitler page is on thin ice: <snip>

An update for non-mods.  Evidence turned up that this guy was a Hitler fanboy and Nazi apologist who's been booted from other sites before, and who had only approached us the way he did because the Moderation tool prevented him from doing a drive-by edit and turning the Hitler page into a Nazi hagiography.   

Regardless, he's permabanned now.

As should be done.

[GethN7]

Shared my preliminary findings with Bob, but given the sheer gravity of the red flag I discovered making it public the guy who wanted to rewrite our Adolf Hitler page is on thin ice: <snip>

An update for non-mods.  Evidence turned up that this guy was a Hitler fanboy and Nazi apologist who's been booted from other sites before, and who had only approached us the way he did because the Moderation tool prevented him from doing a drive-by edit and turning the Hitler page into a Nazi hagiography.   

Regardless, he's permabanned now.

As should be done.

Amen.

Also, and I address mods here, I changed us from using DynamicPageList3 to the original DynamicPageList (Wikimedia) version, to see if we have improved performance. Both are entirely cross-compatible, and all we use are basic features common to both, so I figured it would be worth a test to see if our pages load faster this way, as DPL3 is resource-intensive. Tested the community portal, which uses DPL extensively, and it works just fine and noticed some page load improvement.

One thing I want to do is maximize page loads and uptime, to prevent timeouts that could result in unsaved edits, make us more efficient in general, and reduce the beating the backend takes in case we get CirrusSearch enabled in the future, which is very expensive but very worth it whenever Miraheze can successfully enable it. I also want us to cleave as close to Wikimedia specific extensions for certain things as future-proofing for Scribunto, since the WMF extension support will be much easier to keep compatible long-term.

[robkelk]

Also, and I address mods here, I changed us from using DynamicPageList3 to the original DynamicPageList (Wikimedia) version, to see if we have improved performance. Both are entirely cross-compatible, and all we use are basic features common to both, so I figured it would be worth a test to see if our pages load faster this way, as DPL3 is resource-intensive. Tested the community portal, which uses DPL extensively, and it works just fine and noticed some page load improvement.

You have broken all of my automation by doing that. Switch it back ASAP.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robkelk/sandbox
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ing_images
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ses/page_1
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ses/page_2
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ses/page_3
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robkelk/sandbox/tmp

EDIT: This is the second time you have done something unilaterally that adversely affected another mod. Please stop doing things unilaterally.

[GethN7]

Also, and I address mods here, I changed us from using DynamicPageList3 to the original DynamicPageList (Wikimedia) version, to see if we have improved performance. Both are entirely cross-compatible, and all we use are basic features common to both, so I figured it would be worth a test to see if our pages load faster this way, as DPL3 is resource-intensive. Tested the community portal, which uses DPL extensively, and it works just fine and noticed some page load improvement.

You have broken all of my automation by doing that. Switch it back ASAP.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robkelk/sandbox
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ing_images
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ses/page_1
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ses/page_2
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robke...ses/page_3
https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Robkelk/sandbox/tmp

EDIT: This is the second time you have done something unilaterally that adversely affected another mod. Please stop doing things unilaterally.

Done.

Just want to mention I knew you used DPL, but not the specific DPL3 functions. Second, this was not something I could have tested without switching it over, you cannot have both on at the same time, they inherently conflict. Third, I left a log entry explaining it was a test so it could be easily reverted, but very well, I'll get the green light before doing any more live tests to make sure I don't break something I may be unaware of.

I set up a localhost clone, but I did not clone all talk pages or user pages so testing it on that would have drawn false results. Given the pattern you pointed out, I will, and you may hold me to this, cease and desist further testing of production features without getting an explicit green light, and if it happens again I shall own myself an ass and take whatever punishment deemed fit by the community for my transgression.

On that note, that brings to mind three things I wanted to talk about in light of this.

1. Much like my bot faux pas led to our new bot policy, this seems like we need to clarify a policy for monkeying around with key internals, and when and how that is appropriate for staff to do (insofar as practicable, reasonable, and does not require intervention of our Miraheze overlords).

In fact, here's a blog post I drew up with those very proposals: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Blog:Propo...figuration

2. My performance tests did bear out my claim DPL3 is a resource drain compared to the vanilla DPL (pages loads can take up to half a second more for DPL3, this applies even to pages not using it because of expensive caching in the background, while WMF DPL is far less resource hungry). If at all possible, in light of how this broke something I was unaware of, I'd to formally request we switch over to the WMF version for all future usage until the DPL3 version performance is better optimized for page loads, assuming that is both feasible and unobjectionable unless there are specific DPL3 functions we absolutely require. as it would be best to stick with the WMF version since it will receive first-party support and constant updates as MediaWiki updates.

3. I was going to review our Gadget code, update anything that was horribly out of date, and make a tech blog post about all things that need deleted for being broken/useless or replaced with a better equivalent. Since the user blog post system worked so well for hashing out the bot policy issue, and since I'd rather avoiding stepping on toes for breaking something without what is deemed proper notice yet again, I'll post what I wanted to do said blog post and you guys can green light it from there before ANY of the changes are affected.

Blog post on that here: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Blog:Tech_...e_features

[Bob Schroeck]

Without yet following the links, I have to ask you, Geth, to please not just change things anymore. I thought we'd established this earlier, not just for Bots.

[GethN7]

Without yet following the links, I have to ask you, Geth, to please not just change things anymore.  I thought we'd established this earlier, not just for Bots.

Consider this my word of honor it won't be happening unless you guys authorize it from now on. If I break it, punish me as you deem fit.

That said, I really must insist, for technical reasons, it would be wise to revert back to the classic WMF DynamicPageList, all that changes is the parser tags, the functions of any relevance of us that we will need are common to both and will work in common on either, just the WMF version has better performance.

And I again apologize for the changes I made. I've been trying to make sure we will not fall prey to TV Tropes' issue of having a ton of front-loaded garbage that would cripple us should someone with a bad connection want to read our site, but my zeal to improve things outstripped my discretion, nothing further will be done in regard to site configuration without asking.

Note: Gethbot is ready to do any bot jobs, just fill out the proper forms so I know how to set it up to do them right. I recall Rob had some requests in the last thread, and I can do those ASAP.

[Bob Schroeck]

I agree with your reasoning, and if you can make it work without breaking anything else, I'm all for it. But we need to be aware of cascading side effects.

[GethN7]

I agree with your reasoning, and if you can make it work without breaking anything else, I'm all for it.  But we need to be aware of cascading side effects.

All that needs done is replacing any <DPL></DPL> tags with <DynamicPageList></DynamicPageList> tags. So Rob's lists would work fine with just that one change for example.

Note: AjaxRC code removed, per our discussion here Bob:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Blog:Tech_...e_features

If recent changes shows a white page, a page reload should fix things to flush the old code. Turns out AjaxRC has some old and expensive JS that removing should speed up RC when removed.

[robkelk]

I see a post in Moderation -- the one that would create "Blog:Bad Toys 3D LE" -- that I'm wary of approving.

Is the line that begins with "Name:" personally-identifying information? Is it a way to circumvent copy protection? Is it both?

If any of those are "yes", then we'd be leaving ourselves open to legal liability. But are any of those "yes"?

EDIT: There's also the fact that this is a new user's very first post. Is it spam? I don't know enough about video games to be able to tell.

[robkelk]

Okay, Goldie's permabanned.  HDev411 isn't yet...

Geth, I said it in my last post on the old thread, but I liked the look of everything you showed in the mockups.  I'm okay with them.

And I'm continuing with fixing Cwf1997's problems... and I have to wonder why he has such a fascination with a particular porn parody of My Life as a Teenage Robot.

Done. Both the main page and community portal have been changed and are equivalent to my mockups for the live site.

I need to do some more localhost testing before writing the new policy page on best practices, but now we should have an entirely functional site for mobile and desktop viewers, and TabberNeue thankfully adapted instantly with little switchover issues.

I am open to suggestions on other accessibility and ergonomic features we need improved and will be happy to fix those issues ASAP.

Just looked at the Community Portal.

What happened to all the grouping that we agreed should be on the page?

EDIT: And, now that it doesn't appear on a single screen any more, can we please sort the "Works Needing Page" list?

[GethN7]

Okay, Goldie's permabanned.  HDev411 isn't yet...

Geth, I said it in my last post on the old thread, but I liked the look of everything you showed in the mockups.  I'm okay with them.

And I'm continuing with fixing Cwf1997's problems... and I have to wonder why he has such a fascination with a particular porn parody of My Life as a Teenage Robot.

Done. Both the main page and community portal have been changed and are equivalent to my mockups for the live site.

I need to do some more localhost testing before writing the new policy page on best practices, but now we should have an entirely functional site for mobile and desktop viewers, and TabberNeue thankfully adapted instantly with little switchover issues.

I am open to suggestions on other accessibility and ergonomic features we need improved and will be happy to fix those issues ASAP.

Just looked at the Community Portal.

What happened to all the grouping that we agreed should be on the page?

EDIT: And, now that it doesn't appear on a single screen any more, can we please sort the "Works Needing Page" list?

As I explained in the mockups, and I requested repeated approval before I did anything to change them for a few days prior, the changes implemented were necessary to make sure the Community Portal was readable on both desktop and mobile without being a busted mess of broken Tabs and Tabber markup because the previous implementation was entirely broken on mobile view prior.

If how the pages were partitioned into sections bothers you, the exact same markup for Tabs and Tabber still works as before, please reshuffle the content as you see fit until you are more comfortable with it. The order of the various sections can be reshuffled whatever you prefer, the only reason it looks the way it does now was my attempt to find a way to make sure we didn't have to scroll through a LONG ribbon of pages to find the section we wanted to actually work on, so I broke them up into smaller sections for the ease of use of desktop and mobile users.

If you just cannot stand how I did it AT ALL, the page history will let you roll back in time to the former sorting, though I cannot guarantee it will be as easily accessible in mobile view (you can switch between mobile and desktop view via a toggle at the very bottom of the page). Like all previous changes (and for this one I requested multiple times if anyone objected), my alterations are not set in stone, so reshuffle the board until it looks nicer if need be.

I'll even link all the relevant documentation to be a nice guy:

Note: Mobile view uses the MinervaNeue skin by default, all changes were optimized to look as seamlessly readable between that and our desktop skins as best I could arrange.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs

https://github.com/fuerthwiki/MobileTabsPlugin

Keep the latter's limitations in mind for Tabs, this is required to make sure mobile view has as few issues as possible. I had to make sure we had some use of Tabs and Tabber on the page because of the mod note you added Rob, so my version is the best compromise I could come up with while fixing the mobile view issues, please tweak it further until you are satisfied.

[Bob Schroeck]

I see a post in Moderation -- the one that would create "Blog:Bad Toys 3D LE" -- that I'm wary of approving.

Is the line that begins with "Name:" personally-identifying information? Is it a way to circumvent copy protection? Is it both?

If any of those are "yes", then we'd be leaving ourselves open to legal liability. But are any of those "yes"?

EDIT: There's also the fact that this is a new user's very first post. Is it spam? I don't know enough about video games to be able to tell.

I don't think it's spam, but it's hard to say. The links are not to the usual spam/malware pits; one is to the home of the DOSBOX emulator while the other is to a copy of a 1998-vintage game at Archive.org. Then again, that is indeed a serial number that's scattered across the net already. Meanwhile, "Danyrolux" is a username at so many sites with so many interests (and so little actual content) that I suspect it's a spambot. And then there's the question of why they thought this was an appropriate venue for the post at all.

I've dropped our erstwhile blogger a query on his user page. If he doesn't answer, we can assume he's a spammer and reject the edit. If he does answer we'll take it from there.