All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXI

[robkelk]

Okay, Goldie's permabanned. HDev411 isn't yet...

Geth, I said it in my last post on the old thread, but I liked the look of everything you showed in the mockups. I'm okay with them.

And I'm continuing with fixing Cwf1997's problems... and I have to wonder why he has such a fascination with a particular porn parody of My Life as a Teenage Robot.

Done. Both the main page and community portal have been changed and are equivalent to my mockups for the live site.

I need to do some more localhost testing before writing the new policy page on best practices, but now we should have an entirely functional site for mobile and desktop viewers, and TabberNeue thankfully adapted instantly with little switchover issues.

I am open to suggestions on other accessibility and ergonomic features we need improved and will be happy to fix those issues ASAP.

Just looked at the Community Portal.

What happened to all the grouping that we agreed should be on the page?

EDIT: And, now that it doesn't appear on a single screen any more, can we please sort the "Works Needing Page" list?

As I explained in the mockups, and I requested repeated approval before I did anything to change them for a few days prior, the changes implemented were necessary to make sure the Community Portal was readable on both desktop and mobile without being a busted mess of broken Tabs and Tabber markup because the previous implementation was entirely broken on mobile view prior.

If how the pages were partitioned into sections bothers you, the exact same markup for Tabs and Tabber still works as before, please reshuffle the content as you see fit until you are more comfortable with it. The order of the various sections can be reshuffled whatever you prefer, the only reason it looks the way it does now was my attempt to find a way to make sure we didn't have to scroll through a LONG ribbon of pages to find the section we wanted to actually work on, so I broke them up into smaller sections for the ease of use of desktop and mobile users.

If you just cannot stand how I did it AT ALL, the page history will let you roll back in time to the former sorting, though I cannot guarantee it will be as easily accessible in mobile view (you can switch between mobile and desktop view via a toggle at the very bottom of the page). Like all previous changes (and for this one I requested multiple times if anyone objected), my alterations are not set in stone, so reshuffle the board until it looks nicer if need be.

I'll even link all the relevant documentation to be a nice guy:

Note: Mobile view uses the MinervaNeue skin by default, all changes were optimized to look as seamlessly readable between that and our desktop skins as best I could arrange.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs

https://github.com/fuerthwiki/MobileTabsPlugin

Keep the latter's limitations in mind for Tabs, this is required to make sure mobile view has as few issues as possible. I had to make sure we had some use of Tabs and Tabber on the page because of the mod note you added Rob, so my version is the best compromise I could come up with while fixing the mobile view issues, please tweak it further until you are satisfied.

The ribbons are already too long for some screens - I find myself needing to scroll both horizontally and vertically on the page, which is poor page design. But that isn't what I asked.

What happened to the groups?

EDIT: And if you don't like me complaining after the fact, then hold off on your changes until after I have signed off on them. I am busy and do not have time to drop everything to look at the wiki to suit your schedule.

[GethN7]

The ribbons are already too long for some screens - I find myself needing to scroll both horizontally and vertically on the page, which is poor page design. But that isn't what I asked.

What happened to the groups?

EDIT: And if you don't like me complaining after the fact, then hold off on your changes until after I have signed off on them. I am busy and do not have time to drop everything to look at the wiki to suit your schedule.

Fair enough. That said, the group titles got eliminated because they threatened to make the page ribbons even longer, and I was trying to reduce headaches navigating. Also, part of the poor page design was unavoidable, the way Tabber Neue resolves the busted mobile function was the change the design of the tabs to enable the way they look now, the old tabs were broken on mobile and partitioned sections very poorly once they exceeded a certain width and number. In your defense, now I restored the older look, I see your point on crap design.

And as to your rebuttal, again, fair enough. I can easily try to restore something closer to the older page design since the original design is just a few revisions back, and I'll try to tweak it to address your complaints while also looking good for all users who want to use ATT on their phones and tablets as well as their desktops. I only bothered going ahead with this in the first place because I got no objections despite repeatedly asking for any like I was asked to wait for, and because I wanted to resolve a longstanding issue that screwed over mobile users.

In fact, check it out now. I was able to restore the old look with only a few minor tweaks. I had to add a few hardline templates because this was essential to prevent elements from possible overlap, especially Tabs, as the mobile version does not intelligently understand anything other than hard page dividers elements. You still have to scroll down pretty far vertically on mobile, but no horizontal stuff this time.

[robkelk]

Just to let folks know: The other mod on the freebie wiki is ill, so I'm going to have to spend more time there and less time on ATT for the foreseeable future. I won't be gone altogether, but I won't be as productive as usual either.

[Bob Schroeck]

I've dropped our erstwhile blogger a query on his user page. If he doesn't answer, we can assume he's a spammer and reject the edit. If he does answer we'll take it from there.

And to my surprise he actually replied. In its entirety:

Please delete my blog post. I was very excited about Bad Toys 3D. My apologies.

While he didn't actually answer any of my specific questions (except, perhaps, the last), at least he's not going to raise a fuss about rejecting the edit.

[GethN7]

I've dropped our erstwhile blogger a query on his user page. If he doesn't answer, we can assume he's a spammer and reject the edit. If he does answer we'll take it from there.

And to my surprise he actually replied.  In its entirety:

Please delete my blog post. I was very excited about Bad Toys 3D. My apologies.

While he didn't actually answer any of my specific questions (except, perhaps, the last), at least he's not going to raise a fuss about rejecting the edit.

Eh, it happens. We'll just chalk this up to wanting to share it with the world and letting a bit of generally harmless zeal overtake discretion, no real harm done.

[Bob Schroeck]

Yeah, exactly.

Meanwhile, I've just promoted LLSmoothJ to autopatrolled and automoderated, given he's been making consistent good edits (albeit to the same few pages) for months.

[Bob Schroeck]

Another promotion: Mamaluigi has been making good (if only occasional) edits for more than a year.

[robkelk]

Does anybody still use the "{{hardline}}" template? I seem to recall that we've depreciated drawing lines between writeups on Characters subpages (preferring the "{{break}}" template instead)... but I can't find anything in the Style Guide actually saying that. And there are other subpages and pages -- including the Main Page -- that have lines drawn on them.

Hence the question. Keep or toss?

Here's a list of the pages and categories that still use it.

[GethN7]

Does anybody still use the "{{hardline}}" template? I seem to recall that we've depreciated drawing lines between writeups on Characters subpages (preferring the "{{break}}" template instead)... but I can't find anything in the Style Guide actually saying that. And there are other subpages and pages -- including the Main Page -- that have lines drawn on them.

Hence the question. Keep or toss?

Here's a list of the pages and categories that still use it.

That template is used to prevent drop-downs and certain templates from overlapping dividers with a hard divider, hence the name "hard line".

Keep. Useful as a rule to show one section has definitively ended on the client side as well as for formatting.

[Bob Schroeck]

Agree. Keep.

[robkelk]

Does anybody still use the "{{hardline}}" template? I seem to recall that we've depreciated drawing lines between writeups on Characters subpages (preferring the "{{break}}" template instead)... but I can't find anything in the Style Guide actually saying that. And there are other subpages and pages -- including the Main Page -- that have lines drawn on them.

Hence the question. Keep or toss?

Here's a list of the pages and categories that still use it.

That template is used to prevent drop-downs and certain templates from overlapping dividers with a hard divider, hence the name "hard line".

Keep. Useful as a rule to show one section has definitively ended on the client side as well as for formatting.

{{break}} is equally effective in preventing drop-downs and certain templates from overlapping dividers - it uses exactly the same HTML - but without the line.

Is the line worth having?

[GethN7]

Does anybody still use the "{{hardline}}" template? I seem to recall that we've depreciated drawing lines between writeups on Characters subpages (preferring the "{{break}}" template instead)... but I can't find anything in the Style Guide actually saying that. And there are other subpages and pages -- including the Main Page -- that have lines drawn on them.

Hence the question. Keep or toss?

Here's a list of the pages and categories that still use it.

That template is used to prevent drop-downs and certain templates from overlapping dividers with a hard divider, hence the name "hard line".

Keep. Useful as a rule to show one section has definitively ended on the client side as well as for formatting.

{{break}} is equally effective in preventing drop-downs and certain templates from overlapping dividers - it uses exactly the same HTML - but without the line.

Is the line worth having?

For areas where it's clear we want a firm divider, yes. It does not harm us to keep it around in any event, just in case.

[robkelk]

Fair enough.

[GethN7]

Just an update on Libera Chat. They have yet to get back to me, and I sent a request for an update almost a week ago. Apparently, they have a LONG waiting list, but if someone else wants to try getting through to them, go right ahead.

[robkelk]

I could use some help with this draft Website page of the Internet Archive, please. (Not the Wayback Machine, but that subsite's parent site.)

So far, I have history. The page needs a discussion of the site's cultural context... and more tropes.

[Bob Schroeck]

Our mystery user with the Arabic-language name who tried to create a template as his first edit, a couple weeks back, has returned and is playing ignorant/innocent.

[Bob Schroeck]

I could use some help with this draft Website page of the Internet Archive, please. (Not the Wayback Machine, but that subsite's parent site.)

So far, I have history. The page needs a discussion of the site's cultural context... and more tropes.

I'll give it some thought and see what I can offer.

[GethN7]

Because I haven't commented on critics who could help us instead of complaining, I'd like to do so here:

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/tv-tropes-...st-9621996

This guy is whining about two things, both of which I'll explain in brief.

1. Complaining tropers won't allow changes to the Sonichu pages due to the fact Chris-chan has now been arrested for incest with his mother.

As to the arrest thing, yes, it's true, and no, I do NOT want to go into details. It's a horror show, go check out the Kiwi Farms for all the hideous, nightmarish details.

That said, our pages are not locked, like this one:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Sonichu

If said complainer would like to waltz over to our pages and update them, so long as they keep it objective and within our manual of style, we would welcome it.

2. Complaining the Channel Awesome stuff is not updated because most of the people behind that turned out controversial.

Again, not surprised TV Tropes isn't doing squat, but again, if said complainer would like to update our stuff, there is absolutely no reason they cannot waltz over to our side of the fence to fix things, pursuant to the rules.

And I can brush off being called a "dunce" (as this guy lumped us in with the TV Tropes), but the only dunce here is the guy who never bothered to check why said pages have not changed: NO ONE BOTHERED TO EDIT THEM TO KEEP THEM CURRENT AND IT'S NOT A PRIORITY FOR MOST CURRENT EDITORS RIGHT NOW.

If said complainer (and I know they read here) would like to fix things instead of complaining and then doing nothing, all constructive efforts would be appreciated. And, since I bothered to do research, apparently they were thrown off TV Tropes for offending the moderation there with edits deemed unapproved by the hive mind, they could always try to see if we are less terrible before writing us off, provided they can accept our rules and manual of style.


Since we got compared to TV Tropes, this how they view updating pages on topic #1:

https://archive.md/e5W2C#selection-1557.0-1573.76

Since we have the Moderation extension, we don't have to lock and damnatio memoriae things, so if our complainer friend would actually like to put some works alongside their faith, they can do so by our rules if they like.

And this is why I bless the Moderation extension, TV Tropes' default response to bad editors is to PRLC things, we can just screen all but the objective and constructive edits and not deal with that:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?di...mment-6728

Edit: I decided to address what TV Tropes was too cowardly to do: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Sonichu/Trivia

And VICTIM, really? I've gotten hazed and razzed while I was an active member of the Farms and they still say mean things about tropers because they take a crap on everyone, we at ATT can do a lot better than that and deal with the fact not everyone will love us. Wikipedia gets criticized every day by people who hate them, but they aren't purging articles of critics and drama magnets because they can't handle it, as it would cripple their site remit.

Edit: I stand corrected, Wikipedia is being foolish too:

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/dumb-shit-...st-9617900

[robkelk]

Speaking of priorities for current editors... We're now down to 13,667 images that still need license information identified.

[GethN7]

Speaking of priorities for current editors... We're now down to 13,667 images that still need license information identified.

Congrats. If you can nail that down some more in the next few months, I was going to request we get an updated archive dump to clear any remaining database errors left over from the previous dump as well as a new image dump now we cleaned out the mass majority of the unused cruft.

[robkelk]

Speaking of priorities for current editors... We're now down to 13,667 images that still need license information identified.

Congrats. If you can nail that down some more in the next few months, I was going to request we get an updated archive dump to clear any remaining database errors left over from the previous dump as well as a new image dump now we cleaned out the mass majority of the unused cruft.

I do have to pay more attention than usual to the freebie wiki, so that number probably won't drop by too much in the next month or two. I'll see what I can do, though.

[GethN7]

Important heads-up:

I'm trying to prune subpages for stuff like Funny/Film and other things we have dedicated categories for on the main page (to eliminate repeated content and to cross out red links for wanted pages), and in the process, I found a lot of works do not have {{worksubpagefooter}} on other subpages. While all new subpages will include it by default, you can easily tell if the source page and related existing subpages do not by seeing if they have a blue link for the category or if the category itself links all available subpages. If it doesn't, they all need fixed to replace all categories save the subpage category to just have {{worksubpagefooter}}, which automatically assigns the base page name of the page as the category and will do so in case the page needs a rename in the future, as it will auto-redirect to the new page name.

If anyone wants to double-check my work, please do. Note, this is not something easily fixed by bot, so it needs done by hand.

[GethN7]

Change of subject, just had a weird case of removing content about the Nazis that was true, not to glorify them, but what appears to be denying them credit from a technological advance:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...odid=14492

The Germans under the Nazi regime DID develop electronic television technology and demonstrated it during the mid to late 1930s, and apparently, this edit was made to deny any information relevant to other countries after 1920, which I considered suspicious (or at least an attempt at bluenose bowdlerising actual historical fact) and have denied, left an appropriate message with the new editor (who appears otherwise sincere but inexperienced here:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Topic:Wdxkxn3jb75risbt

Edit: They explained themselves, honest mistake, not censorship, but some of their edits have been in poor form, so I recommend checking them carefully before approval.

[Bob Schroeck]

It also looks like that claim for TV dating back to the early 19th century is a misread of a couple lines in Wikipedia which credit a crude facsimile system as an ancestor of modern TV. They definitely need to pay closer attention to their sources.

EDIT: Well. I just went to the wiki, and three edits by ArtsyGirl's were waiting in moderation. I approved one, I rejected one (it was the insertion of a space right before the period at the end of a sentence - whaaaa?), and I'm deciding what to do about the third. In addition to being at best only semi-relevant to the page and having essentially random capitalization, what you can't see from that link is that the paragraph she added has been inserted in between two paragraphs about the trope namer. I'm trying to decide whether to approve and fix it, or reject it with a message explaining why and what to do better.

[GethN7]

It also looks like that claim for TV dating back to the early 19th century is a misread of a couple lines in Wikipedia which credit a crude facsimile system as an ancestor of modern TV.  They definitely need to pay closer attention to their sources.

To be fair, facsimile transmission is a related technology relating to photography that was basically to still images what the television is to moving images, so it's not actually wrong given such technology was the predecessor of the moving pictures and later television proper. It's similar to how the modern camera is descended from the daguerreotype process, which is an older and cruder form of the modern photograph process.

Also, my plan to depopulate pages like Film/Funny of all examples for pages that already exist to appropriate subpages and keeping "unsorted" examples lacking their own page on those pages only. In the process, this is allowing me to find out which subpages and main pages lack proper markup to fix them and create new work categories as appropriate, thus killing two birds with one stone.