All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXIII

[Bob Schroeck]

Oh yeah, it's copied. It's an edit -- they cut out any passages that linked to tropes we don't yet have -- but pretty much every word is lifted exactly from TVT.

[Bob Schroeck]

Followup on that: I decided to compare the edits he made to Kyonyuu Fantasy Gaiden/Characters and Kyonyuu Fantasy Gaiden 2/Characters to the corresponding TV Tropes pages -- and there are TVT pages for them, apparently the Kyonyuu Fantasy franchise meets TVT's high moral standards.

Anyway, snark aside, I'm seeing something weird when I go to TVT's characters pages for Gaiden and Gaiden 2 -- when I expand all folders on those pages, I only see the first trope in the first character entry, and by the end of each page I'm just getting empty folders with no header text. I've confirmed this in a couple of browsers. Can someone with a TVT account take a looksee and let me know if this is actually what those pages look like, or if it's another passive-aggressive way to get people to register?

Thanks.

[robkelk]

Thanks, Bob.

Can't help you with looking at TVT, since I don't have an account there either.

[Bob Schroeck]

Yeah, as I recall only one of us has one, and I can't remember who it is. Geth, or maybe Labster?

[robkelk]

Do we really need to link to that thread? It's presented as a throwaway reference on how not to follow the process, so it doesn't really add much (if anything) to the page the link is on.

No, I don't think we really do. I think it's only there because that was one of the precipitating incidents that prompted the page explicitly laying out how to get rules changed.

I've removed the entire line, and replied to the Troper who brought it to our attention saying they were right and we were wrong.

Could somebody who has time today check JCVDFTW's very first edit against TV Tropes, please?

I don't know whether to tell this troper "please use the page templates and read All The Tropes:Trope Workshop Guidelines" or "please use the page templates, read All The Tropes:Trope Workshop Guidelines, and read All The Tropes:So You're a TV Tropes Refugee"

Oh yeah, it's copied. It's an edit -- they cut out any passages that linked to tropes we don't yet have -- but pretty much every word is lifted exactly from TVT.

Change rejected and Troper told why.

[robkelk]

Im case folks dismissed the banner messages and forgot about them:

Miraheze will be upgrading to the latest version of MediaWiki (1.37) on Tuesday 7 December 2021 from 17:00 UTC to approximately 20:00 UTC. During this time, you will not be able to edit your wiki. Please make sure to save any edits 5 minutes before the upgrade begins.

That's noon to 3pm Eastern time, today.

[GethN7]

Followup on that:  I decided to compare the edits he made to Kyonyuu Fantasy Gaiden/Characters and Kyonyuu Fantasy Gaiden 2/Characters to the corresponding TV Tropes pages -- and there are TVT pages for them, apparently the Kyonyuu Fantasy franchise meets TVT's high moral standards.

Anyway, snark aside, I'm seeing something weird when I go to TVT's characters pages for Gaiden and Gaiden 2 -- when I expand all folders on those pages, I only see the first trope in the first character entry, and by the end of each page I'm just getting empty folders with no header text.  I've confirmed this in a couple of browsers.  Can someone with a TVT account take a looksee and let me know if this is actually what those pages look like, or if it's another passive-aggressive way to get people to register?

Thanks.

On the moribund/defunct category for Webcomics, sounds good to me.

Also on Kyonyuu Fantasy pages, my sus radar is flashing red. Not only do I recognize sizable chunks of content lifted from us, but it's also a nukige. Granted, one with a surprisingly degree of emphasis on an actual plot, but I have no idea how they are allowing what is essentially a wall to ceiling porn series to be troped there. I'm gonna fire off a note on that to their staff.

[Bob Schroeck]

It wouldn't be the first time a TVT contributor copied from us -- our pages on "The Secret Return of Alex Mack" come immediately to mind, and as I recall, either you or Brent talked to them and got them to pull their copies.

Anyway, did you look at the TVT character pages? Are they really mostly empty? Or is that just what non-subscribers see?

[GethN7]

It wouldn't be the first time a TVT contributor copied from us -- our pages on "The Secret Return of Alex Mack" come immediately to mind, and as I recall, either you or Brent talked to them and got them to pull their copies. 

Anyway, did you look at the TVT character pages?  Are they really mostly empty?  Or is that just what non-subscribers see?

Yes, that is indeed what you saw, they just threw up the basic skeleton of the character pages and apparently planned to fill in blanks later.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thanks.

Have we determined if our contributor is the same as their contributor? We may be seeing someone posting on both wikis in parallel.

Meanwhile, in other news, the MediaWiki upgrade is complete and has thoroughly borked our ability to edit or create pages. I've already dropped notes on existing threads for the problem on Phabricator -- we're not the only ones suffering from this -- and one of those threads has a priority of "Unbreak Now!", so with luck this won't last too long.

[robkelk]

I was just about to ask whether anyone else was having that problem.

The freebie wiki has the same issue (which I've just reported in the "Unbreak Now!" thread). Moderation on the freebie wiki is also affected.

The private wiki for "There's Nothing Better" is not affected.

[Umbire]

I was just about to ask whether anyone else was having that problem.

The freebie wiki has the same issue (which I've just reported in the "Unbreak Now!" thread). Moderation on the freebie wiki is also affected.

The private wiki for "There's Nothing Better" is not affected.

Yep, can confirm, was about to report this myself - I slept through the given time for updates, and I came to find that the normal editor isn't working.

The visual editor seems to be functioning just fine, however.

[Umbire]

Yep, can confirm, was about to report this myself - I slept through the given time for updates, and I came to find that the normal editor isn't working.

The visual editor seems to be functioning just fine, however.

To corroborate this, I just made an edit to Wacky Races via the visual editor and it seems to have saved.

Conversely, when attempting to edit that or other pages normally, I would get errors like this:

   

[Umbire]

Appears switching to normal mode from the Visual Editor works mostly fine, and any tabs I'd had up prior to the Miraheze update still submit the edits properly...

[robkelk]

Looks like we're back to normal operation.

[Bob Schroeck]

Yay.

EDIT: At least one other wiki is still suffering the problem as I type this, so while we should be thankful, let's not assume all is completely well yet.

[robkelk]

Yeah - I just discovered that Extension:Maps stopped working after the upgrade. Not an issue for ATT, but TNB uses that extension.

[Umbire]

Yay.

EDIT:  At least one other wiki is still suffering the problem as I type this, so while we should be thankful, let's not assume all is completely well yet.

User and mainspace talk pages on our end are borked - at minimum, I can't create new topics on them.

[Bob Schroeck]

Argh. And here I was willing to go to bat for Iloveicecream. I was reviewing his 10K edit to Enchanted in the mod queue, and found at least one passage -- the entry for Non Sequitur Scene -- is copied word-for-word from TVT's page (as Big Lipped Alligator Moment). Dammit, guy. Way to exploit my trust.

[Umbire]

Argh.  And here I was willing to go to bat for Iloveicecream.  I was reviewing his 10K edit to Enchanted in the mod queue, and found at least one passage -- the entry for Non Sequitur Scene -- is copied word-for-word from TVT's page (as Big Lipped Alligator Moment).  Dammit, guy.  Way to exploit my trust.

Well, that just figures, doesn't it.

In other news, apparently the specific issue with mainspace talk pages is one of "it'll let you create topics but throws errors at you without notifying you that your attempts went through" - as such, I've accidentally pinged admins 4 different times about one rename request (apologies for that by the by), and Agiletek probably has a flooded user talk waiting for 'em now, so heads up on all of that.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, after I saw that, I went back to the top and started checking everything. A lot more than one passage copied... and in a few places, his edits actually changed existing text of ours to match what TVT has for those tropes now. I'm wondering if he didn't just copy the source for TVT's page right over ours after changing the markup.

What really burns me is that all the spot checks I made on his edits in the past few weeks were clean. Now I'm wondering what got past me.

EDIT: Anyway, rejected the edit, dropped him a note why, and put him on first warning before a tempban, per HWDBAH.

Meanwhile, all that's left in the Moderation queue after my two-day sprint through it are two edits from ArtsyGirl, who still seems a bit clueless about markup. I just did 30 or 40 of them -- could someone else please handle these two? Thanks.

[GethN7]

Well, after I saw that, I went back to the top and started checking everything.  A lot more than one passage copied... and in a few places, his edits actually changed existing text of ours to match what TVT has for those tropes now.  I'm wondering if he didn't just copy the source for TVT's page right over ours after changing the markup.

What really burns me is that all the spot checks I made on his edits in the past few weeks were clean.  Now I'm wondering what got past me.

EDIT:  Anyway, rejected the edit, dropped him a note why, and put him on first warning before a tempban, per HWDBAH.

Meanwhile, all that's left in the Moderation queue after my two-day sprint through it are two edits from ArtsyGirl, who still seems a bit clueless about markup.  I just did 30 or 40 of them -- could someone else please handle these two?  Thanks.

I've rejected the edits and going to leave her a note to please preview her edits before submission to make sure they have proper markup. Seems they tend to forget wikis aren't like writing in a text document and they forget bulletpoints on occasion.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thanks.

[GethN7]

Update on the plagiarism I reported. While they are hashing out that, the item in question falls afoul of their censorship committee, and I decided to throw said committee a rope as to why, even if the content in question was not largely stolen, they'd ban it on (their) principle to begin with:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?di...ment-14197

That said, Fighteer was kind enough to get the ball rolling on settling this, and I hope his holidays are pleasant.

[robkelk]

There's a new user who wants to do a complete re-write of the page for Carl Jung as his very first edit. Including a list of references... which I've never seen on an ATT page in that format.

Could somebody who has time check this against Wikipedia and TVT, please?