[OOC] Steampunk?

[robkelk]

We've secretly replaced Ami Mizuno with Steel Angel Saki, and vice-versa. Let's see whether anyone notices.



Hmmmmm... Assuming they get hair tints (or wigs), it's possible nobody would notice.

So, Saki visits Blossom from ... er ... hey, why aren't the Steel Angels and their associated humans in the Metacontinuity yet? Can we squeeze ten more displacees into the steampunk residence with the Imperial Flower Troupe/Troop? ... Er ... hey, why aren't the Hanagumi in the Metacontinuity yet?

(EDIT: No, we aren't waiting for Arc 2 for Steampunk. The Counter-Earths are currently listed as being High Fantasy, Post-Apocalypse, Cyberpunk, Shiny-Happy, and Four-Color Metahumans... although the only ones we've mentioned wanting to do something with so far are High Fantasy (Lodoss/Rune Soldier Louie) and Shiny-Happy (Starfleet).)


(Image source)

If we're going to do a Steampunk residence, who ends up in it?

• The Steel Angels and associated people from Steel Angel Kurumi - ten people or more
  
• The Hanagumi from Sakura Wars - at least eight people, probably more
  
• Agatha Heterodyne &co. from Girl Genius - minimum... oh, I don't want to set a minimum here.
  

Who else?

And where would we put them? Maybe some place outside of North America -- take some of the load of representing the rest of the world off Dublin's shoulders.

[Dartz]

Agatha Heterodyne meets Chernobyl....

"It's soo hard to get good minions"

"Ooh, they're beginning the experiment...."

"We had our problems but we never nearly poisoned half of Europe. A quarter maybe -- maybe a few towns and villages, but wow, that's a big one. "

"Nuclear bomb? What that? Can they really make one of those?"

"They made thousands of them."

***Existential horror***

You have mad scientists, we have sanes. Sanes are so much more dangerous because they can collaborate with others, pool their research, repeat the experiment, share the knowledge and still not give a fuck about the consequences until after the city is ash because that's not their department since they still got paid

***More existential horror***

Yeah we also got cool vaccines and computers and people standing on the moon so it was probably a net benefit

[robkelk]

Y'know, there was never a lot of general enthusiasm for that "metahumans" world, and there was actually some push-back against it if I recall correctly.

How about we drop the "metahumans" world and get a "steampunk" world instead? Starting with the list in the OP of this thread, and adding Princess Principal on account of it's a world that's easy to adventure in ... although it would be difficult to merge Princess Principal and Girl Genius. (Then again, it would be difficult to merge anything else on the original list and Girl Genius, so everybody's favourite "gaslamp fantasy" might end up sitting out There's Nothing Better. Unless we include only Mechanicsburg in this possible Steampunk world.)

Then we could pick and choose other works from Wikipedia's list that people want to write stories in.

[classicdrogn]

Maybe the time-bomb at Mechanicsburg is a stress-point that makes it where their Yggdrasil system process crashes and core dumps them into the metacontinuity?

[Black Aeronaut]

Hrm.

I think it's a bit much to dedicate an entire Earth in the rosette to only Steam Punk, and primarily because many Steam Punk stories are set, if not in their own invented world, then usually in Europe - in particular, Britain.

Additionally, something else is that Steam Punk usually see a LOT of cross contamination with Magical Fantasy elements.  Standout Examples: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen; The Golden Compass.  Though this only stands to reason as the time periods that Steampunk tends to occupy represent the industrial revolution.  And what better way to explain away the more fantastical elements of Steampunk than with Magic?

Capes-themed settings kinda suffers from the same issue as Steampunk - there's a lot of cross contamination from other settings, and the lines tend to be blurred.  Even more so, in fact, because they tend to span into different time periods, and even overlap with Steampunk in some cases.

As for the pushback, I think that was primarily from Labster, and mainly because whenever you have someone like Superman in the room, he tends to suck up all the metaphorical space in the metaphorical room.

Which, okay.  Yeah.  I can get it.

But the answer to this problem is very, very simple.

Don't write stories about Superman.

There is no mandate at all that once he's present, we absolutely must center the universe around him.  (Or any other Cape in particular for that matter.)  Sure, he's around.  He's active and doing heroic stuff.  But he's mainly confined to one world.  And the Metacontinuity is literally a Gods-awfully Big Place.

As for where to put them all?  Steampunk and Capes?  I don't have any solid ideas myself.  But I do have ideas.  They are:

1. Put them all together on one of the Rosette-Earths.
   
2. Put them wherever they fit best.  Examples:
   • The Golden Compass on the Swords and Magic Earth
     
   • Mortal Engines on the Post-Apocalypse Earth
     
   • The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen on the Capes world.
     

Thoughts?

[Labster]

That kind of feels like a choice between whether or not I want mushrooms or anchovies on my pizza.  While I recognize that they are both technically foods, I don't want either of them to touch my pizza, because they are gross.  They are non-gross to some people, apparently.  I'll swallow it if I have to.

The pushback from me is that supers very often make non-super characters redundant.  Given the box office returns these days, I may have an unpopular position, but I've never claimed not to be a hipster.  But it's not just Superman.  I've been disliking Doctor Who since Chris Chibnall took over because they write him/her too much like a superhero, and rely too much on villain races labeled "always chaotic evil". Basically extend the "Superman is boring" argument you heard at the comic shop, and apply it to anyone else in a cape.

On the steampunk side... honestly, it's just Girl Genius I dislike.  I used to read it and liked it for several years, and then there was just a point where it just seemed like a bunch of repetitive wacky hijinks with no character development.  And worse, it seemed like the uh, what are they called... oh, sparks, yes, the sparks make everyone else suffer so they can have wacky hijinks.  And in that sense, it's the same criticism as for the superhero genre.

I haven't read/watched a lot of steampunk, but I think it could be done with:
Wild Wild West
Sakura Wars
Nadia - I once had them on a list I wanted in my own apartment/cast, but that didn't happen
Steel Angel Kurumi - I haven't seen it but I watched the OP and I see a tornado run, so that's in

Maybe:
Princess Principal: don't know anything about this one
Legend: I remember I liked this series and that it starred MacGuyver and Q, but it got canceled early and I honestly can't remember it very well
Murdoch Mysteries: Okay this one is slightly more Edwardian than Victorian, and not all that punk in outlook, but there's plenty of gadgets and inventors and crime and suspicious American spies trying to subvert the poor Canadians.  And a lie detector machine with colored liquids in glass tubes (they only use it once in the series because the writers realize it's OP, but it's a work of art)

It really isn't many sources, but think about how many stories you'd actually want to set there.  Star Trek would visit a "planet" and only ever go to one place on the surface.

[robkelk]

That kind of feels like a choice between whether or not I want mushrooms or anchovies on my pizza. While I recognize that they are both technically foods, I don't want either of them to touch my pizza, because they are gross. They are non-gross to some people, apparently. I'll swallow it if I have to.

And we just offered you both...

On the steampunk side... honestly, it's just Girl Genius I dislike. I used to read it and liked it for several years, and then there was just a point where it just seemed like a bunch of repetitive wacky hijinks with no character development. And worse, it seemed like the uh, what are they called... oh, sparks, yes, the sparks make everyone else suffer so they can have wacky hijinks. And in that sense, it's the same criticism as for the superhero genre.

Considering how many dangling plot threads the work has, the majority related to recurring supporting characters, I can't disagree with that analysis... Steve Jackson Games thinks that the story is good enough for a game setting, but I have to wonder how many people (like me) bought the gamebook for its use as a gazetteer for the web comic.

I haven't read/watched a lot of steampunk, but I think it could be done with:
Wild Wild West
Sakura Wars
Nadia - I once had them on a list I wanted in my own apartment/cast, but that didn't happen
Steel Angel Kurumi - I haven't seen it but I watched the OP and I see a tornado run, so that's in

USA and Mexico, Japan, Africa, and Japan (again), respectively.

Princess Principal: don't know anything about this one

Slightly-misleading high concept: John le Carré with Cavorite, retelling a particular Mark Twain story that it would be a major spoiler to name, in a Victorian/Edwardian-ish London split like Cold-War-era Berlin. The titular Princess is Victoria's granddaughter.

[robkelk]

Princess Principal: don't know anything about this one

Slightly-misleading high concept: John le Carré with Cavorite, retelling a particular Mark Twain story that it would be a major spoiler to name, in a Victorian/Edwardian-ish London split like Cold-War-era Berlin. The titular Princess is Victoria's granddaughter.

A somewhat better "elevator pitch", from the current draft of the page I'm putting together for All The Tropes:

Princess Principal is a Twelve-Episode Anime, originally aired in 2017.

Victorian-era Britain has discovered Cavorite and used it to become even stronger than it was in Real Life... but a revolution a decade ago has split the country, with the London Wall marking part of the border between East and West. There's still a war going on - not fought by soldiers, but by spies and subterfuge.

So, yes, this story is set in a steampunk version of the Cold War.

The Commonwealth has devised a plan - Project Changeling - to replace Albion's Princess Charlotte with an exact double, Ange le Carré. What they didn't count on was Princess deciding to join forces with Ange in order to become Queen and reunite the nation - a decision that she fully expects to end with her going to the guillotine. The two, along with Ange's partner Dorothy and Princess's school friend Beatrice, become an espionage team for the Commonwealth, taking mission orders from "Control". They have the advantage of Ange having possession of the "C Ball", the smallest known Cavorite device.

{{Needs More Info}}

[Bob Schroeck]

... and Ange and Charlotte share a secret that no one else even suspects.

[robkelk]

Which I'm mentioning on the Characters subpage.

I'm guessing the 2021 and 2022 Princess Principal and Girls und Panzer movies play as double features in Japan, because I'm seeing a lot of official art of Ange and Miho together. (One-hour movies - the post-COVID answer to OAVs.)

This is, of course, a sign that we have to incorporate both works into There's Nothing Better, not just one.


Larger here

[robkelk]

... and Ange and Charlotte share a secret that no one else even suspects.

Since it appears you know the story already... Feel free to help out with the ATT page.

[Bob Schroeck]

Of course I know the story already. I put a Girls, Girls, Girls nanoStep there just a few months ago.

[robkelk]

Thanks for the additions - things are going much faster now. (Of course, I/we still need to write character descriptions for the characters who aren't as easy to describe as Beatrice...)

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm trying to think of the right trope to describe Ange's "black lizard planet" metaphor for being a spy...

[robkelk]

I'm trying to think of the right trope to describe Ange's "black lizard planet" metaphor for being a spy...

Add that to "teenaged girl", "cold-pastel hair", "unnaturally stoic demeanor", "extreme loss in her backstory", and "only one who has ready access to the setting's Phlebotinum", and you get Rei Ayanami Expy

[Bob Schroeck]

Yeah... but there's got to be something for just that. Anyway, this is the wrong thread to be discussing it in.

[robkelk]

True.

So... Steampunk world or steampunk residence(s) in TNB?

[Norgarth]

The Galaxy Express 999 is a steam engine isn't it? Or does it just mimic one? Been a loooooong time since I saw the anime.

[Inquisitive Raven]

So, does The Adventures of Brisco County Junior count as steampunk? Or is it just weird?

[classicdrogn]

Isn't that the one with the giant mechanical spider walker? I'd say definitely steampunk. That also raises the point that "steampunk" is more a matter of what props you're using and perhaps the attitude of the characters towards technology, rather than storytelling genre, which would sway me toward the "residences on appropriate Earths" side if I was actually involved enough to get a vote rather than just presenting a (hopefully) logical argument.

[Bob Schroeck]

So, does The Adventures of Brisco County Junior count as steampunk? Or is it just weird?

I would say so, yes.

[robkelk]

As for the core question... we didn't arrive at any decision during our weekly discussion. Mind you, not all of the writers were present.

[Norgarth]

Isn't that the one with the giant mechanical spider walker? I'd say definitely steampunk. That also raises the point that "steampunk" is more a matter of what props you're using and perhaps the attitude of the characters towards technology, rather than storytelling genre, which would sway me toward the "residences on appropriate Earths" side if I was actually involved enough to get a vote rather than just presenting a (hopefully) logical argument.

No, that was the film version of Wild Wild West (starring Will Smith)

Brisco County jr was a TV series starring Bruce Campbell (I can't recall much of the show itself)

[classicdrogn]

Ah, okay. I only caught a few episodes of Wild Wild West or Brisco County Jr. (my tastes don't generally run to westerns in general) but my impression was that either one could reasonably qualify, the giant spider mech you say was from the movie for sure, but also the phlebotnium-enhanced atomic bomb fifty years early, and some kind of gadget-gun, and I think there was a guy with exoskeleton arms and a sledgehammer somewhere? Might have been another, different movie.

[Labster]

The Galaxy Express 999 is a steam engine isn't it? Or does it just mimic one?  Been a loooooong time since I saw the anime.

The Triple-Nine’s loco looks like an old steam engine from the outside, but the inside is filled with blinkenlights and high tech looking stuff. The genre of the show as a whole largely depends on which episode you’re watching and what planet you’re on. The role of technology in our lives is a major theme; it’s definitely not not steampunk, if you get my drift.

This does have the advantage of being a source already included in the our story, via Aria.