[OOC][Info]Nothing Better Than This Wiki, part II

[Inquisitive Raven]

Took a quick break from retconning and looked at the elementary schools near The Steeple. It looks like the public schools are all underperforming, especially in mathematics - Nanoha's strongest mundane skill.

So I pinned a private school to the map instead.

So, I guess the question is how old are the girls again?  They're post A's, so at least ten.  If we're looking at them being in something like third or fourth grade, I'll leave the school be. If there's any chance that they could be in 5th grade, I'd look into them going to Masterman at 1699 Spring Garden. It's a magnet school, so students have to qualify to get in despite it being a public school.

[robkelk]

So, I guess the question is how old are the girls again?

That's a good question. I seem to recall that Nanoha was 8 in the first season going by North American reckoning (third grade in elementary school), and the other girls were presented as being the same age as Nanoha. A's was strongly implied to be set at the end of the calendar year when the first season took place. But nowhere in the anime are actual numbers given, except that StrikerS is set ten years after A's (which doesn't help us).

If anybody has access to supplementary data (Sound Stage dramas, guide books, etc.) that might help, please join in.

EDIT: Of course, if they are only old enough for 4th grade normally, there's always the chance that they're smart enough to skip a year and attend Masterman anyway. Nanoha was shown to be taking cram school classes and Fate was tutored, after all. There's no data for Hayate.

RE-EDIT: Chrono is young enough that he would have to attend school, too, and Arf/Alph could also attend if she takes young-human form (the way she does in Nanoha Reflection). Maybe Lindy uses her divine wish and Belldandy gets all of them into Masterman ...?

[robkelk]

Oh, I just marked every single date on the page for The Steeple (except for October 31, December 25, and May 22) as needing retcon. We are not bound to the pre-retcon plot's timing, especially since we've been asked to remove that particular pre-retcon plotline.

[Bob Schroeck]

Mm.  Yes, definite possibilities.  If only I could get my hands on an image of that program from 2005 live show...  I can't but wonder if there was a town map in it.

EDIT:  Google and ye shall receive.  Don't know how I missed this a few weeks ago (maybe because I was searching for physical location, not town layout), but Garrison Keillor published at least one Lake Wobegon book (Pontoon) with town maps on its front and back covers.  Looks like I'll be reorganizing the map sometime soon.

And this afternoon I set out to actually work on this, and discovered that the map of Lake Wobegon found on the dust jacket of Pontoon is in fact a map of Osakis, MN, with different street names and of course LW locations and landmarks.

Well.

I guess I have a high-resolution map to work from, now. <grin>

[Labster]

Mm.  Yes, definite possibilities.  If only I could get my hands on an image of that program from 2005 live show...  I can't but wonder if there was a town map in it.

EDIT:  Google and ye shall receive.  Don't know how I missed this a few weeks ago (maybe because I was searching for physical location, not town layout), but Garrison Keillor published at least one Lake Wobegon book (Pontoon) with town maps on its front and back covers.  Looks like I'll be reorganizing the map sometime soon.

And this afternoon I set out to actually work on this, and discovered that the map of Lake Wobegon found on the dust jacket of Pontoon is in fact a map of Osakis, MN, with different street names and of course LW locations and landmarks.

Well.

I guess I have a high-resolution map to work from, now.  <grin>

Yay!

[Bob Schroeck]

I spent a couple hours trying my hand at some fairly simple stuff with the mapping tools and all I succeeded at getting was a blue circle and frustrated. Every time I tried to mix different objects (circles, rectangles, points of interest), something refused to render, and in several cases I ended up with a map that had nothing on it but blue "ocean" background.

Based on the documentation, this tool isn't intended to let you draw fine(r) details on a map -- it's intended to highlight big areas on larger ones, such as nuclear bomb devastation zones on a city map or linking stops on a region-wide travel itinerary. There's not even an indication what units the parameters indicating size are in -- a circle of diameter 300 appears to be approximately 800-900 feet across, by my best visual reckoning. This suggests the units are probably meters or yards, but nowhere in the documentation does it actually say.

It's also pretty clear that the use of latitude and longitude to specify points for any of the functions is kind of a secondary option -- the docs make it clear that you're expected to use things like city names. This makes some of the more unfriendly functions make a bit more sense -- it's much easier to use the polygon function if you just have to list the names of three or more locations, rather than identify every set of lat/long coords you need.

Honestly, I'm growing to hate this thing.

[robkelk]

Popular belief is good enough for me, even if it can't be correct in Real Life. Added a displacee building to the NYC map on the Douglass Gardens page.

[robkelk]

I spent a couple hours trying my hand at some fairly simple stuff with the mapping tools and all I succeeded at getting was a blue circle and frustrated.  Every time I tried to mix different objects (circles, rectangles, points of interest), something refused to render, and in several cases I ended up with a map that had nothing on it but blue "ocean" background. 

Based on the documentation, this tool isn't intended to let you draw fine(r) details on a map -- it's intended to highlight big areas on larger ones, such as nuclear bomb devastation zones on a city map or linking stops on a region-wide travel itinerary.  There's not even an indication what units the parameters indicating size are in -- a circle of diameter 300 appears to be approximately 800-900 feet across, by my best visual reckoning.  This suggests the units are probably meters or yards, but nowhere in the documentation does it actually say.

It's also pretty clear that the use of latitude and longitude to specify points for any of the functions is kind of a secondary option -- the docs make it clear that you're expected to use things like city names.  This makes some of the more unfriendly functions make a bit more sense -- it's much easier to use the polygon function if you just have to list the names of three or more locations, rather than identify every set of lat/long coords you need.

Honestly, I'm growing to hate this thing.

It looks to me like the units are meters.

In order to get multiple shapes to display, they need to be in separate sections separated by pipes, like so for markers and circles:

Code:

{{#display_map:
33° 58' 49.08" N, 118° 28' 1.56" W~[[Aria House]]~~Map-marker-residence.png;
|circles=
34° 4′ 33″ N, 118° 22′ 36″ W:48175~[[w:Studio zone|Studio zone]]~The area in which the movie studios don't need to pay for the actors' room and board~red~0.7~7~white~0
|height=850|width=850|cluster=yes|clustermaxradius=10}}

[Inquisitive Raven]

Popular belief is good enough for me, even if it can't be correct in Real Life. Added a displacee building to the NYC map on the Douglass Gardens page.

Even if it was inspired by a location in New York, the word "Phillies" above the window suggests a Philadelphia location to me, possibly near whatever baseball stadium the city had at the time. A wiki dive reveals that to have been what was then known as Connie Mack Stadium near 22nd and Lehigh which is more densely populated than the area around today's sports complex.

[Bob Schroeck]

separated by pipes

That's what I was missing, somehow. Thanks, Rob.

[Inquisitive Raven]

I noticed that Willow Rosenberg was listed as a mage but not a hacker, so I added the Hacker template to her page. After all, she was the Scoobies' computer support for at least the first two seasons and had a teacher, Jenny Calendar, who was perfectly comfortable combining technology and magic.

I'm going to have her start learning Mid-Childan magic almost as soon as she arrives in the Metacontinuity. She'd dive right into it as soon as she learned about its mathematical basis. I don't think she'd get much of a power upgrade from it, seeing as how it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if she already qualifies as at least an A-class mage by their standards, but she might get an upgrade in versatility. Willow with an intelligent device is a scary concept.

[robkelk]

Finally found an image of just Momoko Takamachi... by thinking inside the (toy)box. It's from Triangle Heart 3, not Lyrical Nanoha.



Larger version here. The version on the wiki has been cropped to remove the promotional text.

[robkelk]

New page-top icon: Archer.

So far, it's on the pages of Archer (duh), Shirou Emiya, Signum, Sailor Mars, and Safety.

[Norgarth]

New page-top icon: Archer.

So far, it's on the pages of Archer (duh), Shirou Emiya, Signum, Sailor Mars, and Safety.

Inara from Firefly would qualify.

[Bob Schroeck]

New page-top icon: Archer.

So far, it's on the pages of Archer (duh), Shirou Emiya, Signum, Sailor Mars, and Safety.

Inara from Firefly would qualify.

Cinder Fall, as well.

EDIT: I've just added it to both.

[Labster]

One thing I just found out, because Miraheze is rolling out some policy changes: we can't make the wiki public, because it would be illegal in the UK. UK doesn't have fair use, but instead has fair dealing, which is significantly tighter than fair use. I think what we have now falls under the "private study or non-commercial research" permission, but only as private study. There's also an option for parody, caricature and pastiche -- but I think even with our multi-source setting probably stretches the concept of "pastiche" a little too far -- I don't think the sort of fanfiction we'd write is legal in the UK. Now if it was a Mary Sue fic, it would be parody all day long, but we're trying to write good fiction.

[Labster]

Hey Rob, have you played with Stable Diffusion yet?  I was thinking it might be possible to generate anime-esque versions of ourselves to use as character images with img2img.  Here's a guy who made fantasy characters out of his kids.  And here's another guy who made Dark Buffy with only 22 words and a decent amount of punctuation.

I may end up installing myself, if I have something that supports the darn thing.

[robkelk]

I haven't even played with LineArt yet, despite having had it installed for over a year now...

[robkelk]

I think we're covered legally now - the "fairuse" licence template now states how we're covered by UK copyright law. And media pages from Commons already have their descriptions.

[Dartz]

Technically No Fanfiction is legal in the UK. Anywhere.

[Labster]

Yeah, I already said that only 5 posts back. I have no idea why Rob went to all of that trouble when it was clear from the outset that it was a waste of time. There's no way that our wiki can comply with UK copyright law while being public. In fact, adding them undermines any argument that we could possibly make for a "private study" defense, and shows intent to distribute. So it was in fact worse than a waste of time.

Canadian fair dealing looks awfully similar to UK fair dealing, but is actually quite different. In Canada, publishing the work would increase the chance of it being seen as fair dealing, but in the UK it's the opposite. Canadian law also encourages a liberal approach to copyright, with the understanding that disseminating information is the main goal of copyright. The UK doesn't have this; the US technically has this but courts tend to rule towards more restrictions anyway -- however the US has specific language for transformative uses.

[robkelk]

I have no idea why Rob went to all of that trouble when it was clear from the outset that it was a waste of time.

Because Miraheze added a warning to our file-upload page, which means we're on their radar. I thought it prudent to show exactly how we are in compliance with the law before they decided to delete the wiki.

Canadian fair dealing looks awfully similar to UK fair dealing, but is actually quite different.  In Canada, publishing the work would increase the chance of it being seen as fair dealing, but in the UK it's the opposite.  Canadian law also encourages a liberal approach to copyright, with the understanding that disseminating information is the main goal of copyright.  The UK doesn't have this; the US technically has this but courts tend to rule towards more restrictions anyway -- however the US has specific language for transformative uses.

Which is an argument for moving the wiki to Canada.

[robkelk]

New character category: Shinto priest or priestess.

Yes, this includes miko.

[robkelk]

I've gone through the character database at anime-planet.com, and cut our "character needing image" list by almost half. If the character is from an anime (other than BGC, which is a special case) and still doesn't have an image, it's because there isn't an image for the character at anime-planet.

(Yes, Rally Vincent has a page there, but the image is of Gunsmith Cats Rally, not Riding Bean Rally. So, no-go for our purposes.)

[robkelk]

Hmmmmm...

Consider the definition of "Yamato Nadeshiko" on All The Tropes:

Broadly speaking, a Yamato Nadeshiko is the "flower of Japanese womanhood", a woman with attributes that were traditionally desirable in Japan from the perspective of male-dominated society; generally ascribed to people with traditional upbringings. Basically it revolves around acting for the benefit of the family and obeying and assisting authority figures (father, husband, sometimes father-in-law or older brothers, as well as older females of similar personality traits). Virtues include loyalty, domestic ability, wisdom, maturity, and humility.

This sounds like an Extreme Doormat, especially to modern Westerners, but don't be fooled; the nadeshiko is a wildflower, after all. A properly done yamato nadeshiko will show a subtle, but definitely present, touch of iron, in that she is unwilling to let circumstances hurt the ones she cares about or distract her from her goals or missions. (Conversely, in poorly done cases this can come across as a forced attempt at trying to convince the audience that the ''nadeshiko'' in question isn't just a doormat with no personality.) This is often accomplished so subtly that the target isn't quite certain how things got redirected—a kind of influence judo, if you will. Older yamato nadeshiko are better at this, while a younger one will make up for it in determination—especially when it comes to the man she loves, because that trumps everything else.

After you've considered that definition for a moment or two, I have a question:
Should every single Sailor Senshi (possibly excepting Chibiusa) get the Yamato Nadeshiko tag? Why or why not?