All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXVIII

[robkelk]

* robkelk goes and looks

Yeah, it might be time to remind HLIAA14YOG of ATT:1WAY ... again.

I don't know whether article 7 of Miraheze's Terms of Service applies, since I don't know what the UK's laws are regarding freedom of religion, but I'd rather not find out the hard way.

[Bob Schroeck]

I think if we have to remind him, we should also kick him back down to needing Moderation. We've had to deal with this kind of crap from him too often in the past; let's just not give him any benefit of the doubt any more.

[Bob Schroeck]

In other news, some looking up of old content led me into the blocked users page today, and I note that Yardie Boy has gotten four different IPs autoblocked this month by trying to log back in from them. He's tried to log in twice today alone.

You have to wonder what kind of idiot gets a permanent ban, and just keeps trying to log back in with the banned account? Like he thinks it'll magically stop being blocked if he tries often enough?

Moron.

[GethN7]

Is it just me, or does this edit to The Qur'an/YMMV by our old friend HLIAA14YOG read as dismissive and borderline disrespectful of the work and Muslims in general?  I know it's a YMMV page, but it seems to me that HLIAA14YOG is trying to get away with returning to some of his past bad behavior by recasting it as YMMV stuff.

The meat of it isn't wrong per se. As a historian, I can verify Islam has a lot of internal schisms over interpretations (earliest goes back to Sunni/Shi'a split) and unlike Cathlocism, which runs most interpretations through the central clearinghouse at Rome, Islam is far more regional and depends far more on the authority of the imam/mullah and their take on how it applies IRL.

Only part I'd disagree on is the last part. Islam, while it does effectively retcon the Bible and Torah, it's largely it's own thing, it just says Jews and Christians got a distorted version of the actual truth more or less for where there is overlap, and the Islamic take is quite different from the former two.

I've made my own edit here:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...id=2028898

I would suggest we at least warn the editor in question to leave edit notices on the basic thrust of their contentious YMMVs to avoid future incidents at the very least.

[Bob Schroeck]

One last note for the night: It's taken the best part of a month, what with breaks for family, holidays and holidays with family, but I've finally cleaned up all the obvious "Harry Potter" redirects. My bot job is done.

I suspect we still have a goodly bunch of stuff in various stupid formats I've stumbled over while fixing different stuff, including coding like

[[Harry Potter]] and the Name of the Book

which was the most common one of all. I'm having trouble getting AutoWikiBot to search for "[[Harry Potter]] and" in a way that it finds things I can act on, though.

[robkelk]

Looks like miraheze.org is down completely.

Which, of course, means phabricator is also down, so I can't file a trouble ticket.

EDIT: No, they're aware. DDOS attack

RE-EDIT: Wikis are back.

[robkelk]

Just took the {{MIA}} template off a page, because I fond a copy of the work.

Never let it be said that the template hasn't fulfilled its intended purpose.

[robkelk]

In other news, some looking up of old content led me into the blocked users page today, and I note that Yardie Boy has gotten four different IPs autoblocked this month by trying to log back in from them.  He's tried to log in twice today alone.

You have to wonder what kind of idiot gets a permanent ban, and just keeps trying to log back in with the banned account?  Like he thinks it'll magically stop being blocked if he tries often enough? 

Moron.

And another try today. I suspect we're looking at a spambot here.

Anyway.

---

I just put together another franchise navbox. It feels strange making one of those and not putting it on the Undocumented Features page... but it did end up on the My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character page.

[Bob Schroeck]

In other news, some looking up of old content led me into the blocked users page today, and I note that Yardie Boy has gotten four different IPs autoblocked this month by trying to log back in from them.  He's tried to log in twice today alone.

And another try today. I suspect we're looking at a spambot here.

Wow, he/it's been busy. A couple blocks I knew were about to expire have dropped off the list, but there are more on it right now than there were when I first looked. Yeah, unless he's just a stupidly persistent idiot, it has to be a spambot.

Now I'm curious to see if "Yardie Boy" is anything but a wannabe rapper trying to brute-force some word-of-mouth.

EDIT: Color me surprised. He has a label, an album, a YouTube channel, an Instagram, etc. Not a wannabe, at least not entirely. Not a name, either, so yeah, I'll bet this is a dimwitted spambot designed to promote him in the most braindead stupid way possible. Especially since it was inserting the same bio text I see on his various social media sites into our pages. Well, that, and it can't figure out how to ban evade, which even our most moronic living ban recipients eventually try.

[robkelk]

On the off-chance that somebody's looking for something to do... Almost every character listed in the Heralds of Valdemar character subpages needs a description. This is a big job, and should be done by somebody who has plenty of time and has read the books... so, not me.

[robkelk]

I see that there's a commented-out line in the description of Invoked Trope:

<!-- <small>TECHNICAL NOTE: On the wiki typing the word "invoked" anywhere within an example turns off the automatic YMMV flagging (the red bullet point) for that example.</small> -->

Is this an artifact of how TVT does things, or is this a feature that somebody wanted to implement on ATT before we went with underlining YMMV tropes?

Either way, it should be updated or removed by Somebody Who Has A Clue what it's all about.

[GethN7]

I see that there's a commented-out line in the description of Invoked Trope:

<!-- <small>TECHNICAL NOTE: On the wiki typing the word "invoked" anywhere within an example turns off the automatic YMMV flagging (the red bullet point) for that example.</small> -->

Is this an artifact of how TVT does things, or is this a feature that somebody wanted to implement on ATT before we went with underlining YMMV tropes?

Either way, it should be updated or removed by Somebody Who Has A Clue what it's all about.

That's a TVT thing, we use MediaWiki, which does not work in that manner.

[Labster]

I see that there's a commented-out line in the description of Invoked Trope:

<!-- <small>TECHNICAL NOTE: On the wiki typing the word "invoked" anywhere within an example turns off the automatic YMMV flagging (the red bullet point) for that example.</small> -->

Is this an artifact of how TVT does things, or is this a feature that somebody wanted to implement on ATT before we went with underlining YMMV tropes?

Either way, it should be updated or removed by Somebody Who Has A Clue what it's all about.

That's a TVT thing, we use MediaWiki, which does not work in that manner.

It doesn't work.  It could work with a mess of javascript.  But really what should be done is an invoked trope template which turns off the coloring.

[Bob Schroeck]

I see that there's a commented-out line in the description of Invoked Trope:

<!-- <small>TECHNICAL NOTE: On the wiki typing the word "invoked" anywhere within an example turns off the automatic YMMV flagging (the red bullet point) for that example.</small> -->

Is this an artifact of how TVT does things, or is this a feature that somebody wanted to implement on ATT before we went with underlining YMMV tropes?

Either way, it should be updated or removed by Somebody Who Has A Clue what it's all about.

That's a TVT thing, we use MediaWiki, which does not work in that manner.

What Geth said. I'm surprised that comment has lasted all this time. It probably should have vanished during our initial purge of TVT control freakery.

[Labster]

Just a quick FYI: User:Excite  opened tropedb wiki on Miraheze.

Honestly I'm curious if he can come up with something cool.  I actually don't think it's possible, but I definitely thought about saving the trope graph instead of saving all of the relationships in the nodes (wiki pages).  The problem is presentation -- you can't really use the same text for "how this work is an example of this trope" and "how this work is an example of this trope".  And that I don't think Mediawiki is necessarily the best platform for this kind of graph data.  But hey, maybe he can come up with something.

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. We had a user here a few years back -- "TvT Rivals", who hasn't been active since 2017 -- that presented themselves as representing a group that were working on a wiki design around much the same idea: a single database of examples and pages that would dynamically populate off it. I can't help but wonder if this is the same group, with lowered expectations/goals.

I have to agree that as a writer, the fundamental disjunction between the two types of examples occurred to me almost immediately, simply from the grammatical/syntax aspect. I challenged myself for a little while with trying to brainstorm a description that would work both ways, and never did come up with something satisfactory.

[robkelk]

That's only an issue if they plan to show the tropelists and example lists to the readers; they might be planning on simply mining the data for trends.

Of course, they need to gather the data before they can mine it... and, as yet, nobody's approached me about using ATT's data. (I'm assuming nobody's approached any of the other mods either.) Not that they need to, since our content is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0, but it is polite to let folks know that you're about to increase their bandwidth.

If they do gather their own data, they'll have to show readers the tropelists and example lists so that they don't get the same submissions repeatedly. And that brings them back to the clunky phrasing issue. Not necessarily this particular clunky phrasing, but something similar:

* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Achilles in His Tent]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Aerith and Bob]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[An Aesop]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Alone in a Crowd]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Anti-Hero]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[The Archer]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Asskicking Equals Authority]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Authority Equals Asskicking]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Badass]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Barbarian Hero]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Bash Brothers]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Be Careful What You Wish For]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Because Destiny Says So]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[The Berserker]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Big Brother Instinct]]...
* ''[[The Iliad]]'' uses [[Big Good]]...

And so on.

At the moment, I'm more worried about how the graphing extensions have been disabled on Wikimedia sites because of a security issue. Assuming that's still a thing; I haven't looked in the past week.

[GethN7]

A WikiData-esque spinoff of us sounds like a good idea in theory, but not sure how it would work in practice. I can see why a mind-mapping-esque approach would be worth trying, but the usefulness from a practical standpoint is not something I'm sure is a good idea. There are extensions with a degree of support for that, but seems like it would be messy to use from the end user perspective for the average reader.

[robkelk]

Is it just me, or does this edit to The Qur'an/YMMV by our old friend HLIAA14YOG read as dismissive and borderline disrespectful of the work and Muslims in general?  I know it's a YMMV page, but it seems to me that HLIAA14YOG is trying to get away with returning to some of his past bad behavior by recasting it as YMMV stuff.

And now he's removed entries from a YMMV page without explanation. NSFW page, so link in spoiler:

Spoiler

Night Shift Nurses/YMMV: Difference between revisions

Is the accumulated behaviour worth a warning?

EDIT: Hang on - he's moved them to another page, not deleted them.

[robkelk]

I am not feeling well right now. If I "yell" at TrueUtopian, they might never come back.

Somebody else drop the hammer, please. The usual reasons for folks who are new from TVT.

[Bob Schroeck]

I can't do it now, between heading out for the day shortly and (more importantly) my tablet seriously hobbling me. But we will be home tomorrow night, so if it's not been taken care of by then I'll do it.

[Bob Schroeck]

And it's taken me another 24 hours to get to it, but I've rapped him on the nose for the deletions from the YMMV and Trivia subpages, and given him the 1-week tempban promised by the yellow "Don't delete YMMV entries" banner that appears when you edit a YMMV page.

[Bob Schroeck]

In other news, it appears that YardieBot has given up on us, at least for the moment.

[GethN7]

And it's taken me another 24 hours to get to it, but I've rapped him on the nose for the deletions from the YMMV and Trivia subpages, and given him the 1-week tempban promised by the yellow "Don't delete YMMV entries" banner that appears when you edit a YMMV page.

I took a look at their edits, and it looks like we have a dedicated Sonic fan with a Single Issue Wonk. If they still want to be obstinate after that tempban, sterner measures may be needed. They also seem to think the same guidelines on TVT apply to us, and since they apparently got told to shove it there, they decided to roll their efforts uphill to us because something was wrong on the internet and they just had to have their say on it.

[Bob Schroeck]

A heads-up: I've slightly rewritten the first notice in the Sitenotice to better explain what's up with the moderation system for new users. I realized it was still written as though we'd just had to turn it on and needed to explain it to established users; I've tweaked it to have a bit of eyecatch and more explanation than it had before.