All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXXI

[GethN7]

Since I'm editing the main work template, and we don't want to do that very often: How would we feel about changing the way that the Source tab works?  I've come around to thinking that we should perhaps not host source content at all, for a few reasons:
* Searching for some terms comes up with almost entirely Source subpages, making it harder to search the main wiki content
** Moving source to a different namespace would solve it, but make our normal pages slightly more expensive to load
* We're really not maintaining or improving source pages
* WikiSource exists, which handles all of the copyright notices, as well as having generally more readable text
** Compare their Alice to our Alice, for instance -- you can link to individual pages in their version, but not in ours
* It doesn't handle film and video at all, currently.  JustWatch exists, and we can point to them.  The same goes for a youtube source, if we know it.
* Some short sources, like poems, would be better off inlined on the work page itself

I know people like the idea of hosting something TVT doesn't, but would we be willing to make some changes here?

Sorry I didn’t get around to replying earlier. This seems reasonable.

Fair enough to me, though I still see no harm in having copies of source documents it's legal to host, though I won't fight the majority on this. I also replied to our recent party who thinks copyright laws are fun suggestions:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Topic:Yrs8...9395oyfpup

I also support handing Fortossai their VIP card.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Another option for source might be to simply link to items in the file namespace - This clears up the casual search issue, while maintaining functionality. For files hosted on commons, this also has other maintenance related benefits.

[Bob Schroeck]

Geth, can you please check the history for the Live Action TV and Films subpages of TVT's Bottle Episode? We have a an edit waiting in Moderation from a user named "Diary" which has language close enough to TVT's that I'm inclined to reject it as plagiarism, but I just want to eliminate any obvious dual-posting.

[Bob Schroeck]

Also, can someone please confirm that TVT has banned Real Life examples from "Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking"? The page itself has none, but doesn't explicitly say they're forbidden; I can't find any TVT forum threads about it through Google, and of course its history is denied me because I'm not a registered member. I ask because we have a queued edit adding the relevant category to our "real life" subpage.

[GethN7]

Geth, can you please check the history for the Live Action TV and Films subpages of TVT's Bottle Episode?  We have a an edit waiting in Moderation from a user named "Diary" which has language close enough to TVT's that I'm inclined to reject it as plagiarism, but I just want to eliminate any obvious dual-posting.

Checked, edits match up to a Troper named "47to74", not exact, but pretty close. Unless they are the same person reposting to us, it's plagiarized.

As for the other page, this shows up in page comments

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: %%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php?crowner_id=3jtoz3d1
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

[Bob Schroeck]

Thank you.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, now this is clever: a new user registration under the name "Anonymoussaka". I really hope they turn out to be a real contributor and not just a spammer front.

[Bob Schroeck]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but a random assortment of Wikimedia Commons images, including the right doublequote graphic, various character and work logo images, and god knows what else, have apparently ceased to exist as far as ATT and KanriKyara are concerned. I'm actually hoping that this is something (semi-)local to me, but I'm raising it here in case it isn't.

[Bob Schroeck]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but a random assortment of Wikimedia Commons images, including the right doublequote graphic, various character and work logo images, and god knows what else, have apparently ceased to exist as far as ATT and KanriKyara are concerned. I'm actually hoping that this is something (semi-)local to me, but I'm raising it here in case it isn't.

It's not just me. Fortossai posted a query on the main page's talk page, asking why it was happening.

[robkelk]

It's happening on the KanriKyara wiki, too. "Addams_Family_main_cast_1964.JPG", "Cquote2.svg" -both from Commons.

Don't know whether the problem's at Miraheze or at Commons.

EDIT: If we can make a list of examples, we'll probably get faster resolution since we'll have already identified the issue.

[robkelk]

Never mind the list, I've created T13806 already.

[Bob Schroeck]

And it's been merged into T13805, which had already been opened for the issue. No solution yet, but an acknowledgment of an earlier upstream issue which appears to have kicked this off.

[Bob Schroeck]

Do we have a trope for this? The over-effective masquerade. Such a good masquerade, that when the folks behind it want to unmasque, no one believes them, and everyone thinks it's a double-blind, or a massive joke, or something else that justifies them thinking the cover story is the real thing no matter what.

[robkelk]

Do we have a trope for this? The over-effective masquerade. Such a good masquerade, that when the folks behind it want to unmasque, no one believes them, and everyone thinks it's a double-blind, or a massive joke, or something else that justifies them thinking the cover story is the real thing no matter what.

That sounds like Extra-Strength Masquerade to me.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Does the recent trope workshop submission "Enraged by Idiocy" set off red flags for anyone else? It redlinks to tropes we don’t have and the intro is different, but suspiciously similar to the one on TVT.

[robkelk]

Does the recent trope workshop submission "Enraged by Idiocy" set off red flags for anyone else? It redlinks to tropes we don’t have and the intro is different, but suspiciously similar to the one on TVT.

Checking the contributor's Talk page, I see they've been warned about copying from TVTropes three times already, all three months ago.

[robkelk]

Does the recent trope workshop submission "Enraged by Idiocy" set off red flags for anyone else? It redlinks to tropes we don’t have and the intro is different, but suspiciously similar to the one on TVT.

Checking the contributor's Talk page, I see they've been warned about copying from TVTropes three times already, all three months ago.

However... Now that I've looked at the matching page on TVT, I think that the ATT version is different enough that they're at least trying to do a clean room version of the trope, despite the fact that the page references two tropes that we don't have (at least by those names). I'm more concerned that the candidate doesn't have any examples at all.

[Bob Schroeck]

Do we have a trope for this? The over-effective masquerade. Such a good masquerade, that when the folks behind it want to unmasque, no one believes them, and everyone thinks it's a double-blind, or a massive joke, or something else that justifies them thinking the cover story is the real thing no matter what.

That sounds like Extra-Strength Masquerade to me.

I suppose it could be a variant, but I think there's enough difference to merit a separate trope. I've been trying to express the difference between them that I intuit, but am failing horribly. Maybe a good night's sleep will give me the proper comparison to separate the two.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Pretty tired so I’m going to sit in responding to these till my social batteries are recharged, but I wanted to stash my notes on the oldest entries in the mod queue for tomorrow and get a second opinion before taking action on these

Notes on pending edits.
Pending edit for Bottle Episode
Section about the Twilight Zone is a match for the TVT Bottle Episode Subpage.
Content was added to TVT by user "6" on September 8th, 2024, predating its submission to ATT.

Pending edit for Galaxy Fraulein Yuna
Trope addition for No Fourth Wall looks quite similar to TVT, but the history doesn't go back far enough for me to tell who added it there.
The rest appears to be original.

Pending edit for World of Action Girls
Entry for Arcana Heart is identical to the TVT equivalent. This was added by Laudy777 back in 2018.
The rest appears to be original.

Pending edit for Variable Geo
Good edit except for the weird image rename that breaks the page image. Inclined to approve and manually revert the image.

Pending edit for Potemayo/YMMV and Potemayo/Trivia
Content wise, this edit appears original. However it's mangled, and needs substantial copyediting.

Pending edit for Adapted Out
Major revision to trope description, but not necessarily a bad one.

Pending page creation for The Loud House'23
Formatting is borked. Regular use of all caps for emphasis. Redlink tropes galore.

Pending edit for The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild/YMMV
Removal of subjective content. Even though this user created their account back in 2023, this appears to be their first edit. May have ignored the big yellow banner that comes up when editing that page. Note: This page is missing the standard YMMV header, the edit notice still appears.

[robkelk]

My immediate reactions, as of less than a half-hour after waking up in the morning and seeing my computer wants to reboot:

Pretty tired so I’m going to sit in responding to these till my social batteries are recharged, but I wanted to stash my notes on the oldest entries in the mod queue for tomorrow and get a second opinion before taking action on these

Notes on pending edits.
Pending edit for Bottle Episode
Section about the Twilight Zone is a match for the TVT Bottle Episode Subpage.
Content was added to TVT by user "6" on September 8th, 2024, predating its submission to ATT.

Reject and inform the troper why, pointing them at the appropriate copyright policy page.

Pending edit for Galaxy Fraulein Yuna
Trope addition for No Fourth Wall looks quite similar to TVT, but the history doesn't go back far enough for me to tell who added it there.
The rest appears to be original.

Geth, could you check the history on this one, please? I seem to recall you have more access than the rest of us do.

Pending edit for World of Action Girls
Entry for Arcana Heart is identical to the TVT equivalent. This was added by Laudy777 back in 2018.
The rest appears to be original.

Is the editor the same person as Laudy777?

Yes or no, the fact that it's been nearly a decade raises a red flag. Consider again when I'm awake...

Pending edit for Variable Geo
Good edit except for the weird image rename that breaks the page image. Inclined to approve and manually revert the image.

Approve, repair, and tell the trope to not mangle file names.

Pending edit for Potemayo/YMMV and Potemayo/Trivia
Content wise, this edit appears original. However it's mangled, and needs substantial copyediting.

Reject and tell the troper to try again. We're moderators, not editors.

Pending edit for Adapted Out
Major revision to trope description, but not necessarily a bad one.

We asked for an edit pass on this page. If the description's meaning is the same and the grammar is better, let it through.

Pending page creation for The Loud House'23
Formatting is borked. Regular use of all caps for emphasis. Redlink tropes galore.

Reject and tell the troper to read the Style Guide before trying again, using a new-page template.

Pending edit for The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild/YMMV
Removal of subjective content. Even though this user created their account back in 2023, this appears to be their first edit. May have ignored the big yellow banner that comes up when editing that page. Note: This page is missing the standard YMMV header, the edit notice still appears.

Check the page history - if the page had the header before the edit, tell the troper to not remove essential page sections. Did they give in the edit summary a reason why they removed the content?

[GethN7]

My immediate reactions, as of less than a half-hour after waking up in the morning and seeing my computer wants to reboot:

Pending edit for Galaxy Fraulein Yuna
Trope addition for No Fourth Wall looks quite similar to TVT, but the history doesn't go back far enough for me to tell who added it there.
The rest appears to be original.

Geth, could you check the history on this one, please? I seem to recall you have more access than the rest of us do.

Checked, and aside from that one line (and it looks borderline okay, there aren't too many ways to phrase the line in question and it has a different end segment from the TVT version), it all looks wholly original.

[robkelk]

Pending edit for World of Action Girls
Entry for Arcana Heart is identical to the TVT equivalent. This was added by Laudy777 back in 2018.
The rest appears to be original.

Is the editor the same person as Laudy777?

Yes or no, the fact that it's been nearly a decade raises a red flag. Consider again when I'm awake...

The edit sorts the entries alphabetically. Reject and point the troper at the Style Guide: "Example lists do not need to be sorted, and with our policy of adding examples to the end of the relevant section, the list would become unsorted again as soon as a new example is added."

[robkelk]

My immediate reactions, as of less than a half-hour after waking up in the morning and seeing my computer wants to reboot:

Pending edit for Galaxy Fraulein Yuna
Trope addition for No Fourth Wall looks quite similar to TVT, but the history doesn't go back far enough for me to tell who added it there.
The rest appears to be original.

Geth, could you check the history on this one, please? I seem to recall you have more access than the rest of us do.

Checked, and aside from that one line (and it looks borderline okay, there aren't too many ways to phrase the line in question and it has a different end segment from the TVT version), it all looks wholly original.

Thanks.