All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part VII

[Bob Schroeck]

...so, I completely rewrote my bot code from last fall and made it a lot more flexible and customizable. And when I tried to run it, it runs into a login problem, reporting back "Login failed. Check your username and password." Which I did, at least via the home page, and had no problems.

I'm not expecting anyone to give me a solution, since it's my damn code. But still.... this thing had no problems logging in 10 months ago. What changed?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[GethN7]

...so, I completely rewrote my bot code from last fall and made it a lot more flexible and customizable. And when I tried to run it, it runs into a login problem, reporting back "Login failed. Check your username and password." Which I did, at least via the home page, and had no problems.

I'm not expecting anyone to give me a solution, since it's my damn code. But still.... this thing had no problems logging in 10 months ago. What changed?

 

 

Not sure what the issue is on the bot thing, but good news, we haz InputBox again.

Also, we do NOT have ReplaceText like I thought we might get, Labster explained it was due to some database weirdness, recommend doing search/replace job with bots (built in feature of AutoWikiBrowser)

[Labster]

It's not database wierdness per se, it's the fact that unless we compressed revisions the database would be much huger.  Since ReplaceText look through the pages with MySQL REGEXP, it can't read gzipped pages.
InputBox should be reinstalled now.

I really should learn more about the underpinnings of Mediawiki.

It's a dark and lonesome road.  Well, not really, it's actually well-designed, and sane for PHP code.  Lots of hooks to attach functionality.  We have a lot of custom extensions, and sometimes it's just good to know what we have going on.  See Special:Version.

I'm not expecting anyone to give me a solution, since it's my damn code.
But still.... this thing had no problems logging in 10 months ago.
What changed?

Mediawiki itself changed.  It's doing something crazy with login tokens now.  This may give you some advice indirectly.  And reading that page, it looks like I may be able to use Dai-Guard once again, now that the core software is fixed.  My bot was definitely well-named.  TL;DR you need to generate a bot password, which is different from the one to log in with because reasons.
-- ∇×V

[Bob Schroeck]

I saw the Bot Password special page, but only did a quick superficial search for help on it. Time to go back and look harder. Thanks.

Edit: So.... any idea why the inputboxes and their buttons grey out a second after the page finishes rendering, but don't show this behavior on its doc page?  It's not a true disable, as clicking in the box gives it a bright blue border and adding any text turns the button blue, but the "disabled" look is a bit misleading.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Edit: So.... any idea why the inputboxes and their buttons grey out a second after the page finishes rendering, but don't show this behavior on its doc page? It's not a true disable, as clicking in the box gives it a bright blue border and adding any text turns the button blue, but the "disabled" look is a bit misleading.

I see the same behaviour on the freebie wiki. I had assumed that it was so casual editors wouldn't try to create a page with a null name.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[TvT Rivals]

Hi everyone,

good news, better news!

Yes, it took us a bit longer. Not the uploading of the few thousand reviews, that was relatively simple. But we had a prolonged discussion among us about one question: Should normal reviews and those for Fanfictions be separated or not? Yeah, Serious Business. Thing is, we couldn't make good screenshots before that was decided.

Also, our script guru caught a cold (in the summer, of all times...) and had to recover a bit.

We haven't been idle, though: We are already in the middle of the next big step, uploading all the subpages (* Moments, Nightmare Fuel, Shout-Outs etc.).

Furthermore, we've renovated a core function of our wiki - handling of complicated wiki URLs. Which means we can enter two tropes and see which works they have in common, or vice versa.

As usual, you can see the new pics on our user page on wikia.

[Bob Schroeck]

Very cool new stuff, guys. I'm looking forward to seeing the whole wiki live!
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Another Troper]

Guys did you hear that? TV Tropes killed Badass! Seriously WTF? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Badass

[robkelk]

If they want people to use the sub-tropes instead of the main trope, it makes sense... but what happens in the rare cases when there isn't an applicable sub-trope to use?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

Who the hell is this guy who comes in from a new IP every few days and replaces a page with a mix of generic comment and random gibberish? What is his deal? What does he think he's accomplishing?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay... why are new categories not showing contents that they ought to have?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Okay... why are new categories not showing contents that they ought to have?

Likewise on the freebie wiki. Has jobqueue fallen asleep again?

(I'm never sure where to report a recurring symptom - is it the same underlying problem that has an existing ticket or something new that needs a new ticket?)

(And would it make sense to set up a daily cron job or the equivalent to stop jobqueue if it's running, then start jobqueue? I don't know whether that's a good idea with MediaWiki, or even possible.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[GethN7]

Who the hell is this guy who comes in from a new IP every few days and replaces a page with a mix of generic comment and random gibberish? What is his deal? What does he think he's accomplishing?

 

Given their pattern of editing and frequency of attempts, it looks like some low IQ spammer is seeing what they can get away with. No links have been posted, just content removals and gibberish, so it's likely manually done, not a bot.

I suggest IP banning each offending IP 6 months or so until they go away.

As for the categories not refreshing right, probably high load spike that caused the job queue updates to stall, get Labster or an Miraheze admin on the horn to look at it via their talk page, IRC, Phabricator, whichever is fastest. It should clear itself up as whatever caused the job queue to lag to resume operation normally, but it might need sysadmin intervention if it's more than just a high load spike issue.
 

[Black Aeronaut]

GethN7 wrote:

---

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Who the hell is this guy who comes in from a new IP every few days and replaces a page with a mix of generic comment and random gibberish? What is his deal? What does he think he's accomplishing?

Given their pattern of editing and frequency of attempts, it looks like some low IQ spammer is seeing what they can get away with. No links have been posted, just content removals and gibberish, so it's likely manually done, not a bot.

I suggest IP banning each offending IP 6 months or so until they go away. 

Out of curiosity, how does that work if they're using public access WiFi Hotspots like college campuses, public libraries, and coffee houses?

[Bob Schroeck]

Anyone coming in from a banned IP can't edit pages, can't create accounts, and a few other restrictions for as long as the ban lasts. Which means that everywhere this guy connects from gets locked out of doing more than reading ATT until early next year.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[GethN7]

Popping in to deliver some site upgrade news, and because I had to drop a banhammer and I'd like to cover why since it covers a policy we inherited from TV Tropes that, in all fairness, was one I considered a great idea.

First off, we will be getting SocialProfile and a few other related extensions again. We got these awhile back, didn't work well, so they were removed, have requested them agains since they work way better than they did a few versions ago. They also provide an alternate new user template provider than our default to sidestep a Flow issue.

I'll give more details when it's installed, but even though it provides an alternate user page layout, you can switch back to your standard user page at any time, and all other features will be optional.

As for the other matter, HelveticaBold was unable to restrain their disdain for Ghostbusters 2016, and despite my own sympathies, they went over the line and I gave them a week long block to contemplate their error:

http://allthetropes.org/wiki/Topic:Tbuja7d9dqao2g7m

Bob, since you dropped the initial warning, just want to add I concur with your call, and I shall leave to your discretion to change the block at any time should you feel mine was too short or long, and while I really hate rapping knuckles like this, I understand why TV Tropes had that rule about restraining one's venom for a work they don't like, and I'm glad we kept it.

[robkelk]

I'm wondering whether one week is enough. I've just undid HelveticaBold's changes to "The Bechdel Test"

EDIT: And his changes to "Meet Joe Black". (No, pointing out that a handwave is required because Joe Black only visits rich-white places is not "racist and insulting".) I'm taking his Autopatrolled rights away - I think we need to keep an eye on him.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

I haven't seen the change you reverted yet, but if he's spewing misogynistic crap elsewhere in the wiki, I'd extend the ban to something longer than a week.
Edit:  Just checked the Bechdel and Joe Black edits, and I'm boosting the ban to a month.  Rob, have you been tracking back his edits to see what else he's spewed elsewhere, or do we need to do that?
Edit 2:  Oh yeah.  In just a quick survey of his last couple dozen edits, Ferris Bueller's Day Off , the page for George Clooney, and The Unfair Sex all had (now reverted) changes that were purely to shift the political or mock a perceived liberal or feminist perspective/opinion.  And he made a lot of changes to Men are The Expendable Gender in July, some of which definitely need to be reverted just because of the bile lurking under their surface.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

I don't have time right now to go any further in. I'll do that after work.

I've restored one cut he made to Men are The Expendable Gender. The listed reason for the example being cut was that it was "a mess", and that much was true - however, it was a simple matter of copy-editing to fix it.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[GethN7]

Gentlemen, thank you for looking into this further.

I have a lot of similar views as HB, albeit to a more restrained degree, but I'd like to think I can do a good job of keeping my personal politics out of the wiki (which is why I'm glad other people gave this further review in case I was wrong).

If he just cannot stop himself after a month and resumes the same pattern, I have no objection to enforcing the nuclear option if the rest of you concur.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, I had the time to review Men are The Expendable Gender more carefully, and came to the conclusion that there was less bile there than I initially thought there was. I still would like someone else to look it over to make sure I'm not being too generous.

As for other edits, well, I went all the way back to the end of June and found only a couple things that needed reversion.  Plus a few borderline cases -- could someone check out his changes on the following pages? I'd like a second opinion before I/we do anything:

Kit n Kay Boodle/YMMV
This edit on Game_of_Thrones/YMMV.
Much of this edit to The_Patriot/YMMV
Mary Sue Classic
Just Shoot Me/YMMV
Opinion Myopia
This edit on M*A*S*H (television)
Mulan/YMMV

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[DHBirr]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

As for other edits, well, I went all the way back to the end of June and found only a couple things that needed reversion.  Plus a few borderline cases -- could someone check out his changes on the following pages? I'd like a second opinion before I/we do anything:

Kit n Kay Boodle/YMMVThis edit on Game_of_Thrones/YMMV.
Much of this edit to The_Patriot/YMMV
Mary Sue Classic
Just Shoot Me/YMMV
Opinion MyopiaThis edit on M*A*S*H (television)
Mulan/YMMV

I don't know most of these well enough to say much useful -- for example, although the "Roger Ebert hates the American Revolution" rant certainly raised my eyebrows, I've neither seen The Patriot nor read Ebert's review -- but as for the M*A*S*H entry, I'd say only the part about Frank's Blatant Lies should be left on the main page.  The rest of it might be adapted to YMMV/Politically Correct History as, for instance:

One episode claims that America is apparently the only country in the world that doesn't happily acknowledge and take in the half-Korean children sired by their soldiers. *cough*"Comfort women"*cough* [with a link to the Wikipedia article]

-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[robkelk]

Two caveats:
1) I'm inclined to be more generous on YMMV pages than on main pages - after all, they're specifically there for matters of opinion.
2) I'm Canadian, so my default "centrist" position is somewhat to the left of the default "centrist" position in the USA.

My thoughts:

Kit n Kay Boodle/YMMV: It's a YMMV page and that was somebody's opinions that he cut. Put it back.

Game_of_Thrones/YMMV: Keep "* [[Draco in Leather Pants]: Various characters, but Cersei probably gets it the most. There are a significant portion of female viewers who look on her as a ''feminist icon and role model''.", drop the italics on the last three words and ".. which probably says a lot more about those viewers than it does about Cersei, really." Then also change "There are a significant portion of female viewers" to "Some viewers" for readability and to remove the gender bias.

The_Patriot/YMMV: Again, it's a YMMV page and those were somebody's opinions that he cut. Put it all back.

Mary Sue Classic: Drop "special snowflake" and "steps in and", keep the rest.

Just Shoot Me/YMMV: It's a YMMV page and that's his opinion. It doesn't need to be in two bullets, though.

Opinion Myopia: "And sincerely held, of course, by the real" is a danger signal. How does he know what's believed by the character, what's believed by the public persona, and what's believed by the real person? Cite it all or drop it all.

M*A*S*H (television): DHBirr's suggested fix should suffice.

Mulan/YMMV: I think it's redundant - there's already a bullet point about the Xiongnu - but the Huns were demonized by the Chinese as much as they were demonized by the Europeans. And it's a YMMV page. Leave it in, maybe consolidated with the Xiongnu bullet-point.

I'm still at work, and these are only my opinions, so I won't make the changes just yet. I won't complain if somebody makes them before me, though.

EDIT: I missed that he had also deleted some entries from Mulan/YMMV. I've rolled those back and re-added (with attribution) the part I suggested leaving in... and I've made all the other edits listed above as well.

RE-EDIT: And we might want to add something like this to the rotating/random banners that pop up on edit pages:

Expect to see things that you don't agree with on YMMV pages. They're there ''because'' those are YMMV pages, and they should stay there unless they break the wiki's rules.

--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

Rob, thanks for making the edits. Yesterday I had to move my mom from one assisted living residence to another, from Delaware to NJ, and I had no time for my admin tasks.

As for the new banner/edit tip, doing that now.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Topic change, and only tangentially related to ATT.

The freebie wiki exists to collect, organize, and index links to free resources. It looks like there's a particular site that we don't want to index. (NSFW content is one thing. Images that can be seen as "sexualization of minors," even though they're 'toon images, is something else altogether.) Is there any way to automatically blanket-reject the addition of URLs to a particular website without preventing editing altogether?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012