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10-08-2016, 08:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018, 11:16 AM by Bob Schroeck.)
This is a hell of a time to notice, with Geth gone...
Why are we using CC-BY-SA 4.0?
I've looked at the official FAQ for 4.0, and I don't like it. That version forces waiver of sui generis database rights and moral rights, without making it obvious that the waiver is required or what waiving those rights means to the editor. (For example, waiving one's moral rights to a contribution means that somebody can use that contribution in a smear campaign against the contributor.)
Is there any way to revert to CC-BY-SA 3.0, which doesn't appear to do a stealth grab of creators' rights? If not, then we really should mention that we're taking more than the editors might be willing to give.
EDIT: Wikipedia is looking at switching to 4.0 as well. I just cast an "Opposed" vote to that proposal.
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10-08-2016, 09:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018, 11:17 AM by Bob Schroeck.)
robkelk Wrote:This is a hell of a time to notice, with Geth gone...
Why are we using CC-BY-SA 4.0?
I've looked at the official FAQ for 4.0, and I don't like it. That version forces waiver of sui generis database rights and moral rights, without making it obvious that the waiver is required or what waiving those rights means to the editor. (For example, waiving one's moral rights to a contribution means that somebody can use that contribution in a smear campaign against the contributor.)
Is there any way to revert to CC-BY-SA 3.0, which doesn't appear to do a stealth grab of creators' rights? If not, then we really should mention that we're taking more than the editors might be willing to give.
EDIT: Wikipedia is looking at switching to 4.0 as well. I just cast an "Opposed" vote to that proposal.
Actually, I'm here (for a little while), it's was Labster's idea, and we are dual licensed under 3.0 and 4.0, and he liked the idea because unlike 3.0 it provided far more flexible "in case of a dispute over rights" running room.
Considering that 4.0 is basically reverse compatible with 3.0 and we have been operating on 3.0 this whole time with 4.0 as an option, and I don't believe it would be too difficult at all to simply cease allowing use of 4.0 as an option, since what we would have left is a perfectly acceptable set of nigh identical terms.
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My big problem with 4.0 is that it isn't upfront about the sui generis database rights and moral rights, the way it is with the other rights. If there are technical reasons for using 4.0 and we run our own disclaimer about the sui generis database rights and moral rights, then I'm okay with it.
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It's kind of a non-issue Rob. In the United States, authors have no moral rights. In the Netherlands, there are 4 moral rights:
* Right of attribution (already covered in the license)* Right to keep the work published under the same name (this is really terrible for wikis)* The right to prohibit changes (which basically have to be waived in order for a wiki to work)* "the right to oppose any distortion, mutilation or other modification of the work which would be prejudicial to the honor or reputation of the author or his dignity as such." -- Google Translate doing a really good job. This only applies to modification of the work, which is either protected speech as parody, illegal speech as libel, or operations necessary to run a wiki.
Moral rights are essentially anathema to running a wiki, and if we didn't ask for them to be waived, we would probably have to leave the Netherlands. Although in reality most exercises of moral rights against a wiki would be misbruik van recht or abuse of rights. In theory we could do this in the Terms of Service rather than the copyright license so it wasn't a relicensable right, but I am not a lawyer and I don't want to get it wrong.
Canadian rights do not apply on the wiki, as we do not conduct business in Canada.
I think that if English Wikipedia goes to 4.0, we will probably want to follow, and stop the dual licensing scheme. This is mainly to allow us to safely copy and paste Wikipedia content onto the wiki, as reusable open knowledge has always been one of our goals. In fact the 3.0 licensing exists to allow content to go back to Wikipedia! So if you want to fight this, I suggest you do it over there because once they change a lot of websites will follow.
I have nothing against a disclaimer about sui generis DB and moral rights, if you want to add it to our copyrights page.
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Change of topic... Speaking as a professional technical documenter, I wish the documentation for AbuseFilter wasn't so opaque. (I know, I know, Wikipedia doesn't want everybody coding filters ... but it's a pain for those of us who want to learn how.)
I have no idea how to code "if action=edit and text contains FOO then disallow", with FOO being replaced with a partial URL. Not going to say which URL here, for obvious reasons.
This is for the freebie wiki.
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Mediawiki documentation is terrible if it's not normal-editor facing. :/ I'd ask in a mediawiki IRC channel, or in #miraheze. Or read the friendly source code. :/
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The source code for anything that even halfway applies to what I need is marked Private...
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Okay, weird error time.
I just tried to launch Trope Workshop:Every Person without Exception, several times in fact (with edits in between), and each time I get an error in the form Quote:[3519fb6785826af8f6c4736f] 2016-10-09 23:46:15: Fatal exception of type "DBUnexpectedError"
Stranger yet, I tried to put a note about this on the talk page, and got this error: Quote:[0ae74ed05996ba1b74b3d222] Exception Caught: Flow workflow is for different page
It seems to be throwing this error for anything I try to post on the talk page.
Update: I left the talk page and then tried to go back to it, and got: Quote:Error
Invalid value was provided for loading Flow content.
Return to Main Page.
[7bd1b883fbf338eab68fd1c9] 2016-10-09 23:51:50: Fatal exception of type "FlowExceptionInvalidInputException"
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Not really private... http://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki- ... parser.php But it is 1000 lines of code so not great.
I think I'd just like to state again my dislike of imaginative category names. They're cool and all for trope names, but if you were looking for tropes about hats, would "Cranium Coverings" come to mind? Or "Let This Index Be Your Umbrella" for Umbrella Tropes? I sort of feel like there should be two parallel systems, with the content pages being amusing and witty and all that, and the category pages being structured and easy to find/navigate.
EDIT: Ironic that Every Person without Exception now has an exception  Looking into it.
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I figured out, sort of, what it was. Somehow, the talk page disappeared shortly before I did the move, but it still registered as "there" enough that the option to carry over the discussion page with the main page remained. I had it checked, and when I unchecked it, I was able to move the page and its subpages.
The second error I got above appears to have been from me trying to post a new message on a copy of the talk page that was open in my browser when the page disappeared on the wiki.
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I'm back everyone.
Let me know if you need me to help with anything.
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Welcome back!
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Tech info post
10-13-2016, 01:14 AM
This concerns a lot of technical news.
First off, do not use the Monaco skin, and discontinue use of it if you are for now, it has a lot of bugs. I'm contacted the developer behind it about it, and MediaWiki 1.27 does not play nice with it, and while we try to keep current with his version via Miraheze, he's still working out bugs.
Second, some more features have come online, like the SocialProfile version of online chatting (we still have the freenode chat as a fallback option for now)
It is confirmed functional and if you uploaded a user avatar on your user pages, it will show up in the chat window as well.
If you want to try it out, go here:
http://allthetropes.org/wiki/Special:Chat
Assuming it proves stable enough, I'll provide a link to it on the sidebar and depreciate the other chat extension, though the old chat room itself will always remain an option, it costs us nothing to keep both.
We also have a user blogging option, but it's only partly functional at present, do not use until I say otherwise.
Private messaging and even public messaging is also possible now, go to a user's page to see the option for doing this (not your own)
It should be called "Send a message"
If someone wants to message me privately, please do so, I'd like to get a read on the stability of this feature. Sent one to Bob as a test privately, let me know if you got it.
There is a feature for sending users gifts, only has one gift now, sent it to Bob as a test, admins can add more.
P.S. - Hope you like it Bob, can be viewed on your social profile:
http://allthetropes.org/wiki/User_profile:Looney_Toons
(click on the gift to see any added message left by the gift giver)
Once all the new features are online and I can confirm what is stable, I fully intend to set them up and write some policy around them, and good news for admins, you can do things like remove offensive avatars, moderate chat by banning problem users, and so on.
Also, one final note: I am hoping to seal any gaps in our ability to provide everything TV Tropes does by adding these features, and I hope they prove a benefit to the community, and any input about them, positive or negative, is greatly appreciated.
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Quote:Hope you like it Bob
I always like gifts. I take it you impersonated me for a chat test a few hours ago?
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Quote:Hope you like it Bob
I always like gifts. I take it you impersonated me for a chat test a few hours ago? Uh, no, that was odd.
We did have this briefly a LONG time ago but it was removed for issues, could be remnant data from back then, Miraheze left all our old data from then in place and just updated the database for contemporary day.
I noticed where your supposed edit was, it was actually John who left a response, likely an artifact of that database table corruption that was flushed awhile back.
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Okay, makes sense.
And you just blanked it, didn't you?
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Okay, makes sense.
And you just blanked it, didn't you?
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Okay, thanks, no big either way.
However... this has been happening for the last few days. If you search on a term that doesn't bring up an autosuggest (or you just hit enter before the autosuggest responds), the search will more often than not die with a 503 or 504 error.
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RE: All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part VII
10-13-2016, 03:00 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018, 11:19 AM by Bob Schroeck.)
Reminder to self: add [[Category:Pages Original to All The Tropes]] to work, trope and creator page templates.
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Thanks for that reminder - I created two pages earlier this week.
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Argh. It happened again -- the talk page vanished just as I moved a page from Trope Workshop to (main) and threw an internal error.
Brent, Geth, do you have any idea what this might be happening?
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Argh. It happened again -- the talk page vanished just as I moved a page from Trope Workshop to (main) and threw an internal error.
Brent, Geth, do you have any idea what this might be happening?
We have a problem, just reported this to Miraheze Staff via Phabricator.
In related news, to make trying out the new social tools easier, I have reorganized the sidebar so the most common features can be tested out.
Also, we will be keeping both the new and old chat extension. New is strictly on-wiki based, old allows non editors on it, useful for appealing bans or discussing non wiki topics.
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Proud to announce our new forum is ready for a test drive!
http://allthetropes.org/wiki/Special:WikiForum
Here's how a sample thread works:
http://allthetropes.org/wiki/Special:W ... orum_Rules
As you can see, it uses any provided user avatar if available, and all available wiki formatting will work, more or less as intended (I have yet to discover anything that goes horribly wrong)
All administrators have automatic forum moderator power, and user rights to make specific users forum admins only are available.
There are only two minor, and if you ask me, negligible bugs:
It tracks all posts, even deleted ones, made by a specific user, so I will have a slightly higher post count than any other user for now since even my deleted posts from the first time I tried implementing this are logged in the database. I consider this not worth worrying about.
This isn't a bug, but it bears mentioning there is a log page for forum actions:
http://allthetropes.org/wiki/Special:Log/forum
Unfortunately, deletions are not logged, and if it's deleted, it's gone forever. Only forum admins have the power to delete posts or threads.
The second actual bug is that it's possible to register a negative thread count in a forum if threads are made in a forum then more than were in the forum were deleted. It's unlikely this will be triggered unless the board had posts left over from the old version of this extension, and I just flushed as much of that down the drain and recreated those boards from scratch where needed.
Aside from that, there are no breaking issues I have discovered.
However, this raises two questions:
1. When/if we will migrate from our current boards (which will be archived/kept for fallback reasons).
2. I ported over a copy of the forum rules from our current forum and made it a sticky post on the new forum as seen above, but I was wondering if any additional policies will be needed and if other specific sticky posts should be added to other forums.
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Looks good. Migration date is something we can thrash out in the open channel, but should probably be after a sufficient shakedown period. Additional policies... I don't see the need for any now, but I suspect you have something in mind. Beyond that, let's just see what events might suggest.
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I have drafted a rough policy article for these new features, still a WIP since a few of them are not fully operational yet:
http://allthetropes.org/wiki/All_The_T ... ialProfile
I look forward to any contributions or feedback anyone has on these items.
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