Hey again.

[Murmur the Fallen]

Um, hey again. It's me.
Sure been a long time, huh. Well, no real reason why I've been gone for a while. School, general burnout from life, what have you. But I'm back, and I'm back with a vengeance, as the old saying goes.
First up, a review of DW II:13 I did for the FFML. So read, discuss, hate me or not:
MURMUR: Hello, and welcome to the first BABYLON REVIEW, wherein we review various fanfics that catch our fancy. With me today are CLAUS BARCA and LAVI HEAD. Welcome.
CLAUS: Hi.
LAVI: Hey. So, which fic are we starting with?
MURMUR: Good question, Lavi-chan!
LAVI: Hey!
MURMUR: Well, the first fic up for review is Robert M. Shroeck's DRUNKARD'S WALK II: ROBOT'S RULES OF ORDER, chapter 13. And, Claus, why don't you give us the heads up on this series?
CLAUS: Oh! Um, okay. Well, uh. Hmm. Oh, okay! Our protagonist, Doug Sangnoir, is a "metahuman operative" from a world filled with super-people, who all act like comicbook heroes and villains but don't really call themselves that. Think about the WILD CARD series and you're halfway there. Anyway, Doug, also known as Loony Toons, is travelling through world after world, trying to get home. This is his second Walk, which takes place in the BGC world.
MURMUR: Some of the more salient points in this fic is that the author makes a conscious effort to stay away from the cliches of SI fics. So there's no hope of our hero getting into a romantic relationship with any of the Knight Sabers. Frankly, there's little chance of them actually liking him.
LAVI: I really like how he's really built up the secondary, and even tertiary characters from the series and made them more three-dimensional. Lisa Vanette and Katherine Madigan are two very good examples, really.
MURMUR: Good point. Of course, the wacky scientists that Doug has found himself working with are all orignal characters, but they fit pretty well with the rest of the cast. Anyway, this chapter, we have the aftermath of the lopsided battle between the Knight Sabers and reasonable simulacra of the Warriors (Doug's superhero team). Nene struggles with the moral questions that Doug brought up, as do most of the rest of the Sabers to greater or lesser degrees. And the question comes up: who exactly is Quincy, anyway?
LAVI: Doug realizes that he's been acting like a complete shmuck for the last few chapters, and resolves to make amends as soon as it is convient.
CLAUS: And Priss and Leon's relationship take leap forward.
MURMUR: So, thoughts, comments?
LAVI: Well, like I said, I really like how he's built up Lisa and Katherine, especially their strange relationship with each other. I particularly liked Lisa's thoughts on Katherine. She knows that Katherine does evil things, and she's not blind to it, but she also appreciates that Katherine has more facets to her. It's that kind of sophisticated characterization that makes this such a good series.
CLAUS: On the other hand, Doug is getting to be more and more of a guest-star in his own series. I think the majority of the chapter was devoted to the Knight Sabers and other characters rather than Doug.
LAVI: Which isn't a bad thing, you know. I mean, he hasn't been exactly sympathetic for a while now. He's never once come up against a physical threat that he hasn't rather handily beaten with one mega-powerful super power after the other. The worst thing that's ever happened to him is that he's been scolded! I think that it would be better, dramatically speaking, if the Knight Sabers become the protagonists and Doug becomes the antagonist. Not that that's likely to happen.
MURMUR: Interesting point, Lavi-chan. While Doug may be grating at times, and certainly you're right that within the context of this "Walk" he has yet to face any real difficulties, he is, as is the case of most successful SI fics, a compelling character with a unique voice.
LAVI: Sorry. I'm just finding less and less interest in Doug's "plight." There's just not enough dramatic tension for me there.
MURMUR: Well, that might change as soon as we find out more about Quincy. It was hinted at that . . . whoops, sorry. No spoilers here. So, overall, I thought that it was a good episode. The compelling characters made up for the fact that not much happened.
LAVI: Doug's still a shmuck, but he's getting a bit better. So it was all right.
CLAUS: Um. Yeah. I agree, see.
-murmur the fallen
Who asks Mr. Bob, "Mr. Bob, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie-Roll Pop?"
--no, wait, sorry; what's your policy on DW fanfic? Cause I've written something . . .

[Ace Dreamer]

> --no, wait, sorry; what's your policy on DW fanfic? Cause I've written something . . .
Well, there is "Doug in Xanth", and "Brush with the Past", already, so _I_ think you have a pretty good chance of getting away with it!
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[Aleh]

---

MURMUR: Interesting point, Lavi-chan. While Doug may be grating at times, and certainly you're right that within the context of this "Walk" he has yet to face any real difficulties, he is, as is the case of most successful SI fics, a compelling character with a unique voice.
LAVI: Sorry. I'm just finding less and less interest in Doug's "plight." There's just not enough dramatic tension for me there.

---

Are we reading the same story here? Seriously, Doug's taken more damage in this story so far than I could accurately catalogue from memory.-------------------
*No,* Sachiel replied.
*Aww, come on,* I answered.
*Absolutely not,* he insisted.
*What's so bad about my idea?*
*While I have no problem with withdrawing and allowing you to handle the situation, I have... issues with your plan to tell the Lillim that you are the "3.14th Angel, Auwhotda'ell".*

[Bob Schroeck]

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But I'm back, and I'm back with a vengeance, as the old saying goes.

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Well, cool. I think I still owe you a private email or two; I need to look at my much-neglected inbox...

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First up, a review of DW II:13 I did for the FFML. So read, discuss, hate me or not:

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Well, I saved ths review, and sent a copy to my prereaders for them to see. What do you suppose that says about my opinion on it?
Seriously, I appreciate all reviews, good or bad. Thank you for writing one.

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Who asks Mr. Bob, "Mr. Bob, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie-Roll Pop?"

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Let's a-find out. A-one, a-two, a-three. Three.

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--no, wait, sorry; what's your policy on DW fanfic? Cause I've written something . . .

---

I generally read it, say nice things about it, and then post it on my website for other folks to see. Good enough?
(Edited to fix quoting.)

-- Bob
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"Flan on!" -- The battlecry of the Human Dessert

[Bob Schroeck]

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Seriously, Doug's taken more damage in this story so far than I could accurately catalogue from memory.

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Well, Doug's not in Yumeko or SkyKnight territory here, but he does have the unique distinction of being the only insert-type character (that I know of) in BGC fic to be machinegunned by Nene, and to be blown up by his own superpowers...


-- Bob
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"Flan on!" -- The battlecry of the Human Dessert

[Bob Schroeck]

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CLAUS: On the other hand, Doug is getting to be more and more of a guest-star in his own series. I think the majority of the chapter was devoted to the Knight Sabers and other characters rather than Doug.

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Hm. Just a comment I wanted to make on this observation. Many insert fics spend long, loving hours lavishing detail over the insert character. You can see the changes he makes, but they mostly happen in the background. The archetypical BGC insert, Twister, does this. One of the things I'm more interested in is showing that the changes Doug makes -- especially the unintentional ones -- are like ripples in a pond, and keep spreading and spreading. It's more interesting to watch what happens to everyone else, because Doug isn't going to be changed by his actions nearly as much as the people around him.


-- Bob
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"Flan on!" -- The battlecry of the Human Dessert

[Murmur the Fallen]

[Are we reading the same story here? Seriously, Doug's taken more damage in this story so far than I could accurately catalogue from memory. ]
Well, you know how the coyote always falls down cliffs and get hit by rocks and falls down cliffs and then gets hit by rocks and all that? And, sure, at the time it looks like he's in pain, but after a new scene, he's all better. And it's funny, but it's not DRAMATIC (lightning flashes, thunder rumbles, women scream). And it's much the same with ol' Dougie-doug.
-murmur

[Murmur the Fallen]

Quote:
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CLAUS: On the other hand, Doug is getting to be more and more of a guest-star in his own series. I think the majority of the chapter was devoted to the Knight Sabers and other characters rather than Doug.
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Hm. Just a comment I wanted to make on this observation. Many insert fics spend long, loving hours lavishing detail over the insert character. You can see the changes he makes, but they mostly happen in the background. The archetypical BGC insert, Twister, does this. One of the things I'm more interested in is showing that the changes Doug makes -- especially the unintentional ones -- are like ripples in a pond, and keep spreading and spreading. It's more interesting to watch what happens to everyone else, because Doug isn't going to be changed by his actions nearly as much as the people around him.
[That's a good point. Certainly the more important subplots here were driven entirely by Doug's presence. Priss and Leon's relationship is certainly one (and please remind me how Priss' career neccessitates Leon moving and essentially changing job? I know there's a good reason, but I forget), as is Katherine and Lisa's relationship (not that I mean it that way. Or do I? Is there a possibility of a Davies-style hook up here?). And I do admit that I enjoy seeing the perspective of the bgc cast, as this is their world. But I do feel a bit more balance between Doug scenes and BGC scenes can be made.
Ah, well.
Oh, and sorry about posting a response to this thread on the main DWII board. If you can move it, that'd be great. If not, sorry about the inconvenience.
-murmur
"I hate you and I despise you," Sgt. Sagara Sousuke to his Rugby team

[zojojojo]

and please remind me how Priss' career neccessitates Leon moving and essentially changing job? I know there's a good reason, but I forget
Priss needs to spend about a year in Osaka cutting an album because that's where the label has a studio. All the MegaTokyo studios that are up to the label's standards are effectively owned by GENOM.
HTH
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
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If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[Herr Bad Moon]

Well, you know how the coyote always falls down cliffs and get hit by rocks and falls down cliffs and then gets hit by rocks and all that? And, sure, at the time it looks like he's in pain, but after a new scene, he's all better. And it's funny, but it's not DRAMATIC (lightning flashes, thunder rumbles, women scream). And it's much the same with ol' Dougie-doug.

The irony of negatively comparing Doug to Wily Coyote amuses me
I am a little confused with parts of your criticism though. On the one hand you want Doug to get more screen time, but on the other hand you want him to get banged up enough to lay him up for an entire episode, maybe more. Those two things seem to be in conflict a little. You can't have Doug getting punked every time he gets into a dust up, since lying in a bed isn't very interesting. Maybe if he had a moral conflict to agonize over, but right now his problems are less philisophical in nature and more practical. To crib from The Simpsons, he not worrying about if "its right to buy a Chrysler" but how to build the Chrysler itself. It doesn't seem to work out to have him get pulverised and more screen time, especially this late in the game. So could you explain a little of what you mean?---------------
And Carthage must be destroyed!
---
Jon
"And that must have caused my dad's brain to break in half, replaced by a purely mechanical engine of revenge!"

[Bob Schroeck]

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Well, you know how the coyote always falls down cliffs and get hit by rocks and falls down cliffs and then gets hit by rocks and all that? And, sure, at the time it looks like he's in pain, but after a new scene, he's all better. And it's funny, but it's not DRAMATIC (lightning flashes, thunder rumbles, women scream). And it's much the same with ol' Dougie-doug.

---

That's the way it works in the game. We have three or four people on the team who can heal, and Doug is actually the best of the lot, since he can do an almost unheard-of area effect healing. It's Warriors SOP to bring HP back to full immediately after a fight.
The only way to keep Doug from healing himself -- especially after taking major damage -- would be to a) kill him outright, b) keep him unconscious and/or c) take away his helmet. A and B are not good story material, at least not from Doug's POV.
And yes, finally, there is a semi-intentional resemblence to how cartoon characters bounce back from massive damage. He is Looney Toons, after all.


-- Bob
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"Flan on!" -- The battlecry of the Human Dessert

[Bob Schroeck]

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That's a good point. Certainly the more important subplots here were driven entirely by Doug's presence. Priss and Leon's relationship is certainly one

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Well, not entirely. I had extrapolated a growing closeness for them between 2033 and 2036 -- not an easy relationship, but one that Leon pursued and finally achieved, to both their benefits. Doug has punctuated it, you might say, but it's something he's not actually responsible for.

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(and please remind me how Priss' career neccessitates Leon moving and essentially changing job? I know there's a good reason, but I forget),

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As Zojojojo notes above, GENOM had all the (acceptable) studios in MegaTokyo locked up, and so Priss's label needed her to record in Osaka. Rather than try to maintain their already-tumultuous relationship long-distance, Leon chose to propose to Priss and move with her to Osaka.

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as is Katherine and Lisa's relationship (not that I mean it that way. Or do I? Is there a possibility of a Davies-style hook up here?).

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No. They're both straight. This is a simple friendship. It will grow stronger as both women mature and grow themselves, but it will always be just a friendship. Although, a few years down the road, I could see them joking about it...

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Oh, and sorry about posting a response to this thread on the main DWII board. If you can move it, that'd be great. If not, sorry about the inconvenience.

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Nah, as far as I'm concerned this is exactly the right place for it. Don't worry.


-- Bob
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"Flan on!" -- The battlecry of the Human Dessert