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Chris Marsden and his crew are probably the least changed by all this, perhaps rewriting the android complement as being something he found on an early gate exploration. Then they got into the asteroid mining business, and set up as one of the primary business interfaces between Fen and 'Danes.
Greenwood station still exists, and probably has a much larger population, enough that it qualifies for statehood and after the 2020 census gets congressional representation.
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I suspect my cast and the Grover's Corners just don't come into play in this variant at all. The GC relies a bit more on the super-wow side of the equation than this setting uses.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:I suspect my cast and the Grover's Corners just don't come into play in this variant at all. The GC relies a bit more on the super-wow side of the equation than this setting uses.
You say things like this and I'm tempted to try and find a place for them, just because they said it couldn't be done.
Anyway, have a thing I like to call "Stuff we could never do with the VVS:"
Quote:Sometime later, after Sora was well and truly sloshed, the blindfold was pulled away and she saw the members of the Order of St. Grimace standing in front of her, all dressed in identical black suits and wearing gorilla masks, the eyes glowing with hellish red light. The lead gorilla spoke in a voice that she dimly remembered as Mal Fnord's.
"Okay, rookie. It's time... to teach you about the SYSTEM." he intoned, and the other gorillas nodded gravely.
"What th'hell are you talk'n about," Sora mumbled.
"A great man once told us," the gorilla declaimed, ignoring Sora's interjection, "that our consumerist society runs on greed, and on inferior products that we are expected to be thankful for. This man was wise in the ways of the world, and he imparted his wisdom to us. The people bleat and feed at the trough of mediocrity, allowing themselves to be led like cattle, like sheep! In these dark times, we must be their champions. No, we must be their saviors!"
The Mal-gorilla reached out and grabbed Sora by the shoulders. "We who live in outer darkness are the heroes the world of Light needs, rookie. We will reach out and bring the revolution to them. This is the great task of our generation. It's up to us! And we shall begin our long march along this path..."
The gorilla paused dramatically.
"...by knocking over an Olive Garden in Irvine."
(Apologies to the mysterious TwoDee and the elegan/tg/entlemen, this whole thing was too awesome for me not to import. Won't happen again, I swear.)
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
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M Fnord Wrote:Bob Schroeck Wrote:I suspect my cast and the Grover's Corners just don't come into play in this variant at all. The GC relies a bit more on the super-wow side of the equation than this setting uses.
You say things like this and I'm tempted to try and find a place for them, just because they said it couldn't be done. Oh, please do. I expect that I will be pleasantly surprised and maybe even boggled if/when you succeed.
-- Bob
---------
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Oh, please do. I expect that I will be pleasantly surprised and maybe even boggled if/when you succeed.
Oho, the gauntlet has been thrown! Let's see...
* The cabal behind the Grover's Corners started out much as they did in the mainline, launching from West Virginia and giving the US defense establishment a bit of a cardiac problem. Instead of hauling the entire farmstead up though this time it was a bit more prosaic but just as ambitious haul of a couple big hydroponics modules. People have to eat after all, and somebody ought to be the local greengrocer.
* Again much like mainline, the appeal of fresh veggies gives Team GC a lot of trading power in the early years before the corps start taking over. Enough so that they manage to trade in the original town modules for a nice big Cole sphere habitat, something in the 1200m range to keep it close to the mainline's size.
* As you say, the GC works on the super-wow, so let's up the ante a little. Most Cole habitats are spun for gravity, which works nicely but only gives you a narrow strip along the spin equator that's properly gravity'd up. Team GC, once they've got the bubble, decide to go for broke. They invest in or invent (either works really) in darksci environmental technology, with the intent of making not just the interior, but the exterior of the new Grover's Corners habitable. Artificial gravity for both sides, exotic forcefield technology for a nice thick atmosphere surrounding the outside, plus plenty of dirt, water, plants and animals...
* By 20XX the whole asteroidforming project had almost wiped out Grover's Corners available capital. But having a 100% legit Wonder of the System sitting pretty at the Earth-Luna L3 point was totally worth it. Most of the people on "The Corners" live on the outside of the bubble Little Prince-style (the view's nicer) while the actual work of the habitat - the agricultural work - happens on the inside (the climate's easier to manage).
* As for the Schroeck-Avins-Imre-Pinkham-Freiler-Mee-Zane family, as many of them as necessary can still be kicking, having built up enough positive rep and tourist cash to invest in handwavium life-extension and/or rejuve.
...what do you think, sirs?
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I wrote the following and put it down without posting it immediately after Bob's initial "probably no GC". Instead of dealing with the GC's crew, it speculates on the feasibility of "Space Marble"-style Unreal Estate:
Well, it's definitely more work than a small group of Fen could manage, and Spindizzies won't work because they depend on actually disproven principles, but black-box reactionless drives exist as darksci and the Space Marble itself is just unnaturally shatter-proof fused silica (Bob and the Warriors cheated to actually build the GC's Marble, but the material itself is almost hardtech). So Grover's Corners isn't going into space, at least not by the efforts of the Warriors; but something like the GC isn't unimaginable. It's probably a case of "just to prove we can", since I'm having trouble imagining a practical reason for it.
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From IRC discussion tonight, the TSAB exists, and operates a few teams that followup "gatecrasher" teams aligned with the US military. It's probably not a USAF-only project this time, I'd expect a Joint Service project.
The team goals are described by the following 'mantra':
Confirmation: Confirm whether or not the gatecrasher team's report is an accurate representation of what lies at the designated coordinates
Observation: Make a more detailed exploration of the area and find out as much as possible about it. Locate exploitable resources.
Networking: If there are potentially-friendly natives, get to know them
Defense: If there are potentially-hostile natives, find out how much of a threat they are
Orientation: Locate the target in relation to Earth for potential transit by ship
Registration: Ensure that the USA's claim to any find is properly documented and acknowledged, avoiding any chance of claimjumpers as possible.
The whole statement provided the backronym 'Project: CONDOR' that was assigned to the exploration teams. It rather amused the fen who coined the term 'Vultures' to refer to corporate and government backed gatecrasher followup teams in general.
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Just some ideas.
Vultures - Those that do in depth follow up surveys for corps, gov'ts, or interested parties on gates that have been "Crashed" by a Gatecrasher team. Just as risky as Gatecrashing, but less "flashy" then Gatecrashing
Crows - Those that visit "Death" gates in the hopes of recovering bodies and/or salvage from lost Gatecrasher/Vulture groups. A number are made up of people trying to find out what happened to friends or family. Success of a Crow "Murder" can change the rating of a Gate. A "Murder" that doesn't return from a Red rated gate always result in the gate being re-rated Black.
Gate Rating
Gray - Unknown Gate
Blue - Nothing of Value or "Empty" Gate
Green - Safe-ish Gate
Yellow - Visit with caution
Amber - Hostile/Vulture group lost
Red - Gatecrashers never returned also known as "Death" Gates.
Black - Blocked Addresses "Oblivion" Gates
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So, what happens when somebody goes into the Oberon Gate and comes out of original-flavour's Tannhauser Gate?
(Besides "flail about in zero-g for a few minutes", of course.)
More seriously, I had a thought about setting up a section on the Wiki for all the alternate Fenspaces (TSIRSGAH, Candle in the Dark, this project). Having them in a separate section would make it obvious that they're not being developed to the same degree that mainline Fenspace is... and if something does become developed, it can be moved from "Alternates" to "Infinities". It's relatively easy to set up this sort of thing on the wiki - but I want feedback first on whether I should. Thoughts, all?
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M Fnord Wrote:...what do you think, sirs? Very well done. Very well done indeed.
I especially like the "Little Prince" style living. I'd've never thought of that.
Proginoskes Wrote:(Bob and the Warriors cheated to actually build the GC's Marble, but the material itself is almost hardtech). Well, initially it was a kind of cheat -- I never said how the dome was grown, just that it was done "with handwavium". I have of late decided that they used the handwavium not directly, but to create nanoconstructors which themselves built the dome (and laced it with handwavium and 'wavium-enhanced mechanisms, as well as the sensor cameras and whatnot). Regardless, I had always envisioned the hull -- at least the top -- starting out flexible, in two accordion-folded halves grown and situated underground that then unfolded and met in the middle to form the upper dome, essentially curing to final hardness upon exposure to air. Which isn't typical behavior for simple fused silicon.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Argh. Tried to do a nice quoted reply to Rob and Yuku ate it several times. I said:
That's not a bad idea, Rob. As its own namespace, almost a separate wiki, it should work very nicely.
-- Bob
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Well, initially it was a kind of cheat -- I never said how the dome was grown, just that it was done "with handwavium". I have of late decided that they used the handwavium not directly, but to create nanoconstructors which themselves built the dome (and laced it with handwavium and 'wavium-enhanced mechanisms, as well as the sensor cameras and whatnot). Regardless, I had always envisioned the hull -- at least the top -- starting out flexible, in two accordion-folded halves grown and situated underground that then unfolded and met in the middle to form the upper dome, essentially curing to final hardness upon exposure to air. Which isn't typical behavior for simple fused silicon. Ah. I always assumed that the Handwavium-as-nanoconstructors, once the dome was in place, transmuted it into something at least closely resembling simple fused silica. (There's another set of replacement errors for the thread in the Fanfiction forum: silica is silicon dioxide (SiO[sub]2[/sub]: quartz and the main ingredient of glass); silicon is a semiconducting metalloid; silicone is an extremely broad category of compounds (polymers with the general formula [R[sub]2[/sub]SiO][sub]n[/sub], where R is any organic group), the most familiar of which to most people would be silicone rubber.)
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Gate chat! (and namespace chat, but we'll get there)
Okay, for Ye Record this is more or less how I'd seen gate operations going. Much of this is liberally borrowed from Eclipse Phase, since they did a pretty awesome job of outlining exploration via wormhole and you should totally give them money if you like good sourcebooks.
First-link: This is the first step when exploring a new gate address. The operators open the wormhole up to the smallest aperture they can and then stick a small probe through. This probe is designed to survive at least for a little while in all kinds of environments, and it relays back basic temperature, atmosphere composition/pressure, gravity and radiation data to the control center via a fiber-optic line. It also gets a live visual feed of the immediate surroundings. Gate control looks at this and decides whether or not to go to the next stage in a first-link. If the world looks reasonably okay, then the wormhole is inflated a little bit more and a drone - basically a ROV on a leash - gets shoved through. This drone will get a better look at the surroundings as well as do some basic sample work, look for life if there's nothing visible, etc. If the drone doesn't find any show stoppers, control proceeds to the next step, the first-in team.
First-in: What everybody thinks of as 'gatecrashers,' these are the guys who get to be first through to another world. SOP is to walk through in suits; just because the drone didn't find anything immediately dangerous doesn't mean there isn't anything, so proper biological sequestration is required until the third or fourth visit at minimum. Most crashers haul their gear (tools, rations, portable survival shelter) on their backs with a motorized cart for heavy stuff, though a few teams have proper vehicles available. In any case, the first-in team's job is to reconnoiter the gate's general area out to at least a fifty-kilometer radius. This is generally done using free-flying ROVs but also involves a fair bit of hoofing it, especially if there's something interesting close to the gate. Gatecrashers are more than often armed, especially on missions to Gaian worlds, because while the first-link drone might say the atmosphere is safe it won't tell you there's a flock of giant murderstorks just over the hill that might consider humans tasty.
The first-in mission usually lasts for a fixed period, between 24 and 100 hours depending on the nature of the world visited. The more interesting or potentially valuable the place looks on first-link, the longer the first-in mission normally is. The gate is operated from the far side and it's on a schedule, so if a team misses the connection they're SOL; if nobody comes back the address is usually locked off. There might be a followup if the world is promising enough, but for a stranded crasher team that's a thin thread to hang hope on.
Vulture missions: These guys are the followup people. They're all still gatecrashers - the average team will do four or five vulture missions for every first-in - but they get the unglamourous job of going in after the first-in guys and setting up the new world for resource extraction or colonization or research. Despite the insulting name, vultures still run a considerable risk; new worlds don't stop being dangerous just because the first-in guys came back after all, and murderstorks are always potentially over the next hill. Vultures generally tend to make up missions 2-10 to a new setting.
Colonies: In 20XX there are three major colonies and a couple dozen minor ones scattered along the gate network. The majors are Hyborea (mapping to mainline Yggdrasil), $Planet_to_be_named_later (mapping to mainline Arda) and Grand Central (not a mainline world, orbits a nondescript G1 about 550 light years away). Hyborea and $TBD only connect to Oberon and each other, and have been nicknamed the Local Triangle by operators and fanboys. Grand Central is significant because it seems to be a major network node with hundreds, if not thousands of potential links (as opposed to the 1-200 links from Oberon). Most of the heavy gatecrashing activity in Fenspace happens on Grand Central.
Aliens: As of 20XX nobody's seen a real, live alien. Or at least nobody's claimed to have seen a live alien and brought back actual proof of the encounter. There have been plenty of signs that there are aliens out there, however: gatecrashers have discovered dozens of sites through the network that show the gates have been used or known for a very long time. Traces of alien civilizations ranging from ten million years BP to just a few decades prior have been found, so somebody obviously is using the gate network. Which leads into the next topic of discussion...
The Great "What:" Two years ago, the gatecrasher team 'the Order of St. Grimace' did an otherwise routine first-in mission on a planet that seemed to support primitive life and had some odd ruins strewn around the gate. The Order quickly determined that the planet (officially tagged "Strangelove" in the databases) had gone through a severe nuclear war sometime around 2,500 years BP, a war fought with salted fusion warheads that quickly killed off all the higher lifeforms. Then the Order found remains of the local sapients.
They were not expecting to find human remains.
Since the discovery of Strangelove, Convention gate authorities have been reevaluating all their data on past "alien" civilizations and are finding that yes, some of these may indeed have been human. The further discovery of Tellus Secundus (again by the Order) has thrown pretty much everybody for a philosophical loop. Who built this duplicate of Sol system? Why did they build it? How in the hell did humans show up in the network? And the $64,000 question: are there more duplicates out there?
Now, the question of namespaces. I'm not opposed to the idea, though if we want to make actual seperate namespaces and not just fake ones I'll have to engage in a little server-side cocking about with config files to make it work. So not quite as simple as all that but hopefully easy enough.
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Proginoskes Wrote:(There's another set of replacement errors for the thread in the Fanfiction forum: silica is silicon dioxide (SiO2: quartz and the main ingredient of glass); silicon is a semiconducting metalloid; silicone is an extremely broad category of compounds (polymers with the general formula [R2SiO]n, where R is any organic group), the most familiar of which to most people would be silicone rubber.) I did intend to type "silicates", as I have in numerous other places I discuss the Corners. I just bobbled it because I was in a hurry.
-- Bob
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I would say give the AU's their own side panel in the wiki and a parrallel thread set here
that said, i'm working on stuff for all three, the southern thread not counted though i would love to read it.
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Wasn't really sure what to think about this "not-quite-a-reboot" until I reread and found the comment that this would be mainly another timeline/universe worked on at the same time as the original version. Now, I say go for it.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to get my act back together from being out college for a year, having gotten one BS and now going for my teaching license. Hence my dragging my feet when it comes to fleshing out the NERV folks with some stories - I'm too busy with a riting intensive Creative Thinking course. *big sigh* Ah, well, Spring Break is coming up. Maybe I'll get something written then.
Gotta say, even though I have no voice on it, I agree with the idea of giving seperate space on the wiki for the alternate versions Fenspace that have been fleshed out a bit. It just seems wrong for all that good material to just be discarded. Heck, maybe during my aforemention upcoming break I could write something to the effect of having the folks at Pavonis Arcology welcoming and interacting with the spindizzied Mormons...hmm...
Maybe give Infinity-syle designators to the alternate versions of Fenspace just for convenience's sake? Fenspace-1 (mainline), Fenspace-2 (Gernsback-2), Fenspace-3 (Candle in the Dark), etc. Or maybe something more colorful, like Fenspace-Prime, Fenspace-Dixie,...
Quote:Since the discovery of Strangelove, Convention gate authorities have been reevaluating all their data on past "alien" civilizations and are finding that yes, some of these may indeed have been human. The further discovery of Tellus Secundus (again by the Order) has thrown pretty much everybody for a philosophical loop. Who built this duplicate of Sol system? Why did they build it? How in the hell did humans show up in the network? And the $64,000 question: are there more duplicates out there?
*pauses* After reading that, I had a rather dark-ish thought. What if that universe is an 'amalgam' universe where an Infinity/Centrum-style multi-worldline civilization had swiss cheesed the interdimensional boundries so much that a number of them had collapsed together?
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M Fnord Wrote:Now, the question of namespaces. I'm not opposed to the idea, though if we want to make actual seperate namespaces and not just fake ones I'll have to engage in a little server-side cocking about with config files to make it work. So not quite as simple as all that but hopefully easy enough. If we're going to go with real namespaces (as opposed to heavy categorizing of pages in the existing namespace), then yes, you're going to have to do the initial work.
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DeputyJones Wrote:Gotta say, even though I have no voice on it, I agree with the idea of giving seperate space on the wiki for the alternate versions Fenspace that have been fleshed out a bit. It just seems wrong for all that good material to just be discarded. Heck, maybe during my aforemention upcoming break I could write something to the effect of having the folks at Pavonis Arcology welcoming and interacting with the spindizzied Mormons...hmm...
You created Pavonis, which is more than enough to give you a say in what happens here. We're all in this together.
DeputyJones Wrote:*pauses* After reading that, I had a rather dark-ish thought. What if that universe is an 'amalgam' universe where an Infinity/Centrum-style multi-worldline civilization had swiss cheesed the interdimensional boundries so much that a number of them had collapsed together?
That is dark, and it's interesting. Not really what I had in mind, though... I'll explain later, once I can word it correctly.
robkelk Wrote:If we're going to go with real namespaces (as opposed to heavy categorizing of pages in the existing namespace), then yes, you're going to have to do the initial work.
Well I just checked the manual and it's not too much of a pain to build a new namespace. I'm thinking we do one namespace for the alternates as a group, then we can category-spam the breakdown however we feel fit from there. Sound like a plan?
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DeputyJones Wrote:Maybe give Infinity-syle designators to the alternate versions of Fenspace just for convenience's sake? Fenspace-1 (mainline), Fenspace-2 (Gernsback-2), Fenspace-3 (Candle in the Dark), etc. Or maybe something more colorful, like Fenspace-Prime, Fenspace-Dixie,... Er, Gernsback-2 is Mainline Fenspace, if I understand Rob Kelk's writings correctly. I'm not familiar with GURPS Infinite Worlds, so I don't know what Gernsback-1 is like. I think descriptive namings are the way to go: Fenspace-191, Candle-Fenspace. The best I can do for a single-modifier name for this version is Science-Fenspace (In contrast to Mainline, which could be called SCIENCE!-Fenspace. The meme-sensitive nature of Handwavium in most timelines seriously screws with doing Real Science at it.).
EDIT: Sounds very good, Mal.
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Dakota -Well known Indie Vulture that makes heavy use of ROVs from a ROV carrier crawler. Currently one of the go to people on Grand Central for custom ROVs when not on a Vulture run. Victim of the early Anti-sleeve movement while working for the Face Off TV show as a sleeve model. That resulted in the loss of his flesh and blood body when they unplugged it from life support. The quadruped canine sleeve he found himself stuck in all those years ago remains his most used one. It's current external appearance is that of a massive wolf.
ROV Carrier Crawler "Oregon Trail" - Custom built, slab sided crawler resting on a pair of tracked drive pods. A covered wagon with a broken wheel is painted on the side of the cab section. A regular sight at Grand Central with it's sides covered in graffiti from Gatecrasher groups believing it to bring good luck. Space rated and fully capable of making controlled planetary landings, but not taking off again without help.
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Quote:You created Pavonis, which is more than enough to give you a say in what happens here. We're all in this together.
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[Begin Log]
Survey Report 03 - Gate PKX-18901 - Considering the life bearing world discovered by Gatecrasher Group 023 on $Date.
Vulture Reporting: Dakota
$Date
Life bearing indeed, it's a damn near perfect copy of Earth. I'll simply refer it to as IMPACT Earth until better name comes up. Considering Gatecrasher Group 023 found it, they should be allowed to give it a name. While you lot back at Grand Central figure out if you want to do a First Contact or not.
My ROVs have been mainly scouting the East Coast of the North America. Ground penetrating radar has revealed a lack of urban spread of ruins of the major urban centers based on the remaining foundations. Closer examination of said foundations reveals a lack of the sort of engineering needed for skyscrapers in areas like Manhattan island. Remaining damage is consistent with a impact event. Maybe even a small scale string of impacts as what happened with the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet upon Jupiter at some point pre-20th century. However closer examination Dirtside has been limited do the fact my ROVs are not stealthy and ROE. There are, as noted in Survey Report 02, small tribes of humans living in and near the ruins.
High Alt. ROVs has confirmed the presence of coal fired industry in the more advanced areas of IMPACT Earth as detected by Gatecrasher Group 023. Even the limited use of primitive airships as seen in the attached image files. Please ignore the surprised look of the people aboard the airship. Failure on my part to detect the airship before a near collision happened between it and my brightly lite disk shaped ROV.
Airship.AJPG
Factory.AJPG
Current Map, City, and Population.data
Thus I put forward a request that a team be sent Dirtside to gather intel. As humans should draw less attention then a ROV if spotted and may be able to gather intel from books or other documents.
As per orders I'll remain on station until recalled with these reports sent via standard courier drone back to Grand Central.
[End Log]
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Proginoskes Wrote:Er, Gernsback-2 is Mainline Fenspace, if I understand Rob Kelk's writings correctly. Well, sort of.
If one is using Fenspace as a world in the Infinite Worlds setting, then it's "Gernsback-2" and Maico Tange is a deep-cover spy for one of the major crossworld groups.
If one is not using Fenspace as a world in the Infinite Worlds setting, then it's "Fenspace" and Maico Tange is a struggling reporter.
So one can make a case for there being two remarkably-similar "mainline" Fenspaces...
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M Fnord Wrote:robkelk Wrote:If we're going to go with real namespaces (as opposed to heavy categorizing of pages in the existing namespace), then yes, you're going to have to do the initial work. Well I just checked the manual and it's not too much of a pain to build a new namespace. I'm thinking we do one namespace for the alternates as a group, then we can category-spam the breakdown however we feel fit from there. Sound like a plan? Sounds like a plan.
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robkelk Wrote:Sounds like a plan.
Okay, we're set up. For any and all Fenspace Alternates material tag the page as "Alternates:$whatever" and it'll go to that specific namespace. I've set up a main page for the namespace and linked it from the sidebar, but haven't played around with content yet.
Edit: Also content. I want to figure out how to work this into the backstory, but still not sure about the method. Ideas?
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
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