The Tea Party - Facts, Thoughts, and Vitriol

[Black Aeronaut]

Okay.  So, the basic gist of the Tea Party is that they are an anti-establishment organization bent on extreme reformation of the government.
Are these people really the voice of America, or are they the mouthpieces of a mere handful who are pouring gasoline on a hornet's nest?  I mean, the refer to themselves as anti-establishment, which to me reads as 'anarchistic'.  Do they even really believe in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, or do they feel that those should be struck from the history pages and rewritten to suit their aims?
Particularly troubling for me is how some of my shipmates here seem to resonate with, what I feel is, some of their more ridiculous calls.  One in particular has taken on a mindset of economic darwinism that is simply insidious - he doesn't care that only the richest people in America made money off of the recession and that everyone was fooled into thinking that the housing lending boom was a good deal, even if that was a con in and of itself.
The calls against things like Obama's Health Care Reform, doing away with Social Security, maintaining Bush's tax cuts...  It makes me wonder if these people are really thinking out what they are talking about.
In essence, they simply trouble me, far more than the Republican ultra-rightist movement because then it would just be a case of politicians doing what they do.  But here it's the people in general and I am worried that they are really going to try and tear the Nation apart.

[ECSNorway]

In a lot of ways, it's a response to the KosKids and other loony left groups that sprang up between the 1998 and 2008 elections. We've seen the extreme, vocal, revolutionary left... now that the left is in power, we're seeing the extreme, vocal, revolutionary right.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[robkelk]

You have a left-wing party running the United States? I thought the center-right Democrats were in charge right now, as opposed to the far-right Republicans.

If you want to know what a real left-wing party looks like, take a look at http://www.ndp.ca/vision]this platform...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ECSNorway]

You have a left-wing party running the United States? I thought the center-right Democrats were in charge right now, as opposed to the far-right Republicans.

If you want to know what a real left-wing party looks like, take a look at this platform...

Thanks for the pointer to the Obama platform, Rob.
I'm serious: That reads, point for point, exactly like the USA Democrat party's platform. If you were to strip out all the references to Canadian-specific things and replace them with their American equivalents, it'd be indistinguishable.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Morganite]

I found it interesting how conservative a few of the bits in there sounded. `.` (Although there's more than a few disturbing gaps. For instance, I notice that there's a line about protecting the right to join a union, but nothing about protecting the right to *not* join a union. Maybe that problem hasn't come up in Canada, I don't know.)

I also can't help but wonder whether they really want to practice what they're preaching in 3.1i. Almost no one really seems to.

(On a side note, "A Canadian currency and opposing moves toward a common North American currency" - Is there anybody who's trying to move *towards* a common North American currency?)

-Morgan. "You got your conservative in my liberal!" "You got your liberal in my conservative!"

I almost got my nose in-

[Ayiekie]

ECSNorway, since the revolutionary loony left is in power, can you explain why, precisely, that no less than three senior members of Obama's government (including Obama himself) have taken public shots at the left wing of their own base for being too critical of them? Can you also explain why, exactly, said left wing is so critical of them?

I'd also like to hear what sort of policies, exactly, you consider to be far left.
Edit for on-topicness: I don't see the tea-party as being anti-establishment, really. They are (generally speaking) motivated by pseudo-libertarian complaints about high taxes and government deficits, but in their voting patterns and polls thus far they have turned out to be largely social conservatives, which are a familiar part of the Republican coalition. Because the Republican party does not actually do much for social conservatives when in power (abortion is still legal, foreigners can still get in the country, gay people keep getting more rights), it's been noted for awhile that the social/religious right wing of the party has been dissatisfied and increasingly blaming Republican unpopularity (since 2006 or so) on Republicans not being true to "conservative" ideals.
This is the result of that dissatisfaction, coupled with fears over the collapsing economy, a sort of purge of non-ideologically pure which has happened in both US parties in the past. Like most such revolts by the fringe of the base, it is ultimately doomed to irrelevance because their favoured policies are largely abhorrent to the mushy middle voters that decide elections. They'll make a mess in the meantime, but they're not going to upend politics or lead an armed revolt, and should the economy improve, they'll start to evaporate.

[Black Aeronaut]

I hope they'll start to evaporate. Stuff like this has a nasty tendency to linger like a bad infestation of roaches.
And I wasn't thinking of an armed revolt. Just a political one, though that in and of itself may lead to a real revolt of somekind. Shades of college students and teachers being shot by panicky national guardsmen. You know how that is.
Why is it that there does not seem to be any solid centrist parties out there? Does the Modern Whig Party look promising to anyone? Hompage here, wiki article here.

[robkelk]

I found it interesting how conservative a few of the bits in there sounded. '.'

That happens a lot in Canada. They want to get elected, after all...

(Although there's more than a few disturbing gaps. For instance, I notice that there's a line about protecting the right to join a union, but nothing about protecting the right to *not* join a union. Maybe that problem hasn't come up in Canada, I don't know.)

It's come up - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_formula]65 years ago.

I also can't help but wonder whether they really want to practice what they're preaching in 3.1i. Almost no one really seems to.

They seem to think that "universal health care" means "universal health care"... so I'm not surprised this is in their platform.

(On a side note, "A Canadian currency and opposing moves toward a common North American currency" - Is there anybody who's trying to move *towards* a common North American currency?)

Some economists think it's a good idea - match the strength of the Euro, remove the volatility of the (insert any of a number of Central American nations here) peso, merge the strengths of the Canadian banking system and the US manufacturing system, etc etc ad nauseum. (I disagree with them, and not just because of what's happening to the Euro because of Greece's problems.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Epsilon]

I'm serious: That reads, point for point, exactly like the USA Democrat party's platform. If you were to strip out all the references to Canadian-specific things and replace them with their American equivalents, it'd be indistinguishable.

What the hell...? Are you just relying on your audience not clicking on that link? You are lying through your fucking teeth.
Just grabbing a random example please quote me where on Obama's policy he says he is going to legalize mairjauna. Or decriminalize prostitution.
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Epsilon

[Epsilon]

On the Tea Party as a whole:
The Tea Party is an astroturf organization. Trace the money trail for a lot of the start-ups for Tea Party rallies and you'll find it traces back to a few Republican elites. Tea Party is just a catchy name for pissed off Republicans, nothing more. If you believe that the Tea Party is truly libertatrian in its ideology I suggest you ask them how they think about abortion and gay rights. Turns out, their libertarian ideology ends at that point...
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Epsilon

[Black Aeronaut]

On the Tea Party as a whole:
The Tea Party is an astroturf organization. Trace the money trail for a lot of the start-ups for Tea Party rallies and you'll find it traces back to a few Republican elites. Tea Party is just a catchy name for pissed off Republicans, nothing more. If you believe that the Tea Party is truly libertatrian in its ideology I suggest you ask them how they think about abortion and gay rights. Turns out, their libertarian ideology ends at that point...
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Epsilon

Exactly why I think they are bad for the country in general.  They are so opposed to compromise and yet they are contradicted at the same time.  I'm hoping they evaporate as Aiyekie said they might, but I'm not counting on it.  My analogy to roaches and all.
  

[Dartz]

Don't worry... if they're anything like Libertas were here, they'll be really loud for a bit, then go away when they realise most sane and rational people aren't listening to them. TP will eventually be flushed by progress.
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--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?