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Legally it is a little trickier. The constitution requires a president being a "natural born citizen". But that term has NOT been properly defined.
In Obamas´s case, it was never an issue, as his birth certificate states he was born in Honolulu (that's why the birthers concentrated on claiming it was forged). Having been born within the limits of the country, he is a natural born citizen by long established precedent and assumption, no matter who his parents were.
The issue with Cruz is that he was born in Canada, and outside of any US controlled territory. He gets citizenship because his mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth, not because of territoriality. Now, most everyone would agree that having the right of citizenship at birth satisfies the "natural born" requirement, but there is no precedent establishing that, and that is the angle he is being attacked on. Like it or not, he running and/or winning the presidency would create such a precedent, and there could be valid legal challenges along the way. In his place I would arrange for an ally to sue him on this matter in an amicable court and have the matter elevated as fast as possible to get it out of the way.
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Didn't Trump state some time ago that he believes that being born in a particular country does not automatically bestow citizenship?
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Kilroy Wrote:Didn't Trump state some time ago that he believes that being born in a particular country does not automatically bestow citizenship?
Well, citizenship is a legal construct, so what does or does not bestow citizenship is a matter of what the state has established does so. I'm pretty sure Trump has stated a belief that birthright citizenship is a misinterpretation of US law, and if he's using the reasoning I've heard elsewhere he might have a point.
But that really doesn't seem relevant to to the Cruz situation, since one thing I'm pretty confident the US bestows citizenship for is being the child of a US citizen, and Cruz fits that criteria.
I really don't think this is a winning tactic for Trump, so I'd kinda like him to keep at it, but on the other hand it's also kind of annoying since it doesn't even resemble discussing issues.
-Morgan.
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Morganite Wrote:... but on the other hand it's also kind of annoying since it doesn't even resemble discussing issues. You still discuss issues during your elections? We haven't done that in Canada for decades (even though lampshading that fact was a factor in the Conservative defeat in 1993).
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The entire thing behind the 'Natural Born Citizen' is to prevent a person of foreign birth (and therefore a person potentially influenced by other governments) from occupying the single most powerful position in the US government. Prudent, really, when you think of it.
With that taken into consideration, I feel that people born outside the country need to have BOTH parents be citizens to be considered a 'Natural Born Citizen'.
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For what it's worth, when I joined the U.S. Army in 1981, the recruiters told me that because I was born in Canada, and despite both parents being U.S. citizens, I was NOT a citizen myself. La Migra -- excuse me, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, didn't disagree with that argument, either, but they were quite ready to naturalize me, possibly because I'm of Kraut descent (K-word privileges!) and thus as "Aryan" as most Klansmen could ask for. So, Teodoro Cruz -- you may be in trouble, hermano....
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Big Brother is watching you. And damn, you are so bloody BORING.
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Black Aeronaut Wrote:The entire thing behind the 'Natural Born Citizen' is to prevent a person of foreign birth (and therefore a person potentially influenced by other governments) from occupying the single most powerful position in the US government. Prudent, really, when you think of it. ... I don't know how well that theory holds up in real-world application, though. Consider that Christopher John Boyce, Jonathan Pollard, Robert Lipka, Brian Patrick Regan (and more but not all of the other people from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... y_breaches]this list), and Edward Snowden were all born in the USA. Foreign or domestic birth isn't a particularly good indicator of trustworthiness (if it was, Canada wouldn't currently have a Defense Minister who was born in India).
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"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
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And the cascade of crazy continues
01-24-2016, 06:50 AM
Palin endorses Trump. Her speech was so rambling and nonsensical that Tina Fey couldn't improve on it. And who wrote that's speech? An alien living in planet 9? Could this be Plan 9 From Outer Space?
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Quote:robkelk wrote:
Quote:Black Aeronaut wrote:
The entire thing behind the 'Natural Born Citizen' is to prevent a person of foreign birth (and therefore a person potentially influenced by other governments) from occupying the single most powerful position in the US government. Prudent, really, when you think of it. ...
I don't know how well that theory holds up in real-world application, though. Consider that Christopher John Boyce, Jonathan Pollard, Robert Lipka, Brian Patrick Regan (and more but not all of the other people from this list), and Edward Snowden were all born in the USA. Foreign or domestic birth isn't a particularly good indicator of trustworthiness (if it was, Canada wouldn't currently have a Defense Minister who was born in India).
..... I can't even...
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And Trump keeps hammering on Cruz as the "Canadian Candidate". That he should be running as premier from Canada, rather than U.S. President. At least he's not calling him the "Manchurian Candidate". Btw, Rob you don't suppose Canada would take Cruz back?
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Quote:ordnance11 wrote:
And Trump keeps hammering on Cruz as the "Canadian Candidate". That he should be running as premier from Canada, rather than U.S. President. At least he's not calling him the "Manchurian Candidate". Btw, Rob you don't suppose Canada would take Cruz back?
Sorry, no refunds.
Quote:nocarename wrote:
Quote:ordnance11 wrote:
And Trump keeps hammering on Cruz as the "Canadian Candidate". That he should be running as premier from Canada, rather than U.S. President. At least he's not calling him the "Manchurian Candidate". Btw, Rob you don't suppose Canada would take Cruz back?
Sorry, no refunds.
Seconded.
-People may die, but ideas are forever. Je suis Charlie.
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ordnance11 Wrote:And Trump keeps hammering on Cruz as the "Canadian Candidate". That he should be running as premier from Canada, rather than U.S. President. At least he's not calling him the "Manchurian Candidate". Btw, Rob you don't suppose Canada would take Cruz back? I suspect he'd be in a package deal with Celine Dion and Justin Bieber...
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and Trump has now verified that he will not be attending the republican debate come thursday night. The bad thing is that i can see that working for him because the disaffected amongst the republican/conservatives have gotten to the point where they view FOX as the CNN of the DC GOP establishment
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When The Donald says, "We'll put a wall in place!"
We all Cheer! *PBBBBT*
Cheer! *PBBBBT*
Right in The Donald's Face!
Not to vote for Donald is a big disgrace!
So we Cheer! *PBBBBT*
Cheer! *PBBBBT!*
Right in The Donald's Face!
Are we not the 'Muricans?
Immigrant Free 'Murikans?
Yes we are the 'Murikans!
Super Stoopid 'Murikans!
...
I lose my meter but It's sad how much of "Der Fuhrer's Face" can be fit to The Donald's campaign.... Also "Springtime for Hitler," as well.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
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Who knows? Maybe the Iowa voters will see the light and vote for someone sane. But the odds of that happening?
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Wow...
Her mental Sparkplug really does fire that bit too far after top dead centre, doesn't it?
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Rajvik Wrote:and Trump has now verified that he will not be attending the republican debate come thursday night. The bad thing is that i can see that working for him because the disaffected amongst the republican/conservatives have gotten to the point where they view FOX as the CNN of the DC GOP establishment Considering the reason I've heard that Trump gave for not attending, I can't help but see this as a gift to the Democrats if he somehow gets the GOP nomination. How much of the USA's political goodwill would be squandered for no reason by a President who refuses to meet with other world leaders who disagree with him?
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And Trump claims victory. And declares Cruz is a Canadian anchor baby.
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ordnance11 Wrote:And Trump claims victory. And declares Cruz is a Canadian anchor baby. Only people who take part get to claim victory ... unless they want to be laughed at.
EDIT: Seen on teh interwebz:
![[Image: ynnO4mx.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/ynnO4mx.jpg)
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Well, the Iowas caucus starts tomorrow. Polls show Trump in the lead. Cruz second. Trump celebrity vs Cruz ground game. And caucusing in the middle of blizzard...
Imo, whichever one wins Iowa and wins the nomination is going to lose the general election.
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And Cruz wins. Trump loses. So what is the use of having a lead in the polls if your supporters don't vote. Or change their minds?
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ordnance11 Wrote:And Cruz wins. Trump loses. So what is the use of having a lead in the polls if your supporters don't vote. Or change their minds? Not a big surprise that someone who wears his religion on his sleeve would win a state where people like that sort of thing. If he can win in New England, then I'll pay attention.
And it's been said many times: the only political poll that matters is the one at the ballot box.
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Quote:ordnance11 wrote:
And Cruz wins. Trump loses. So what is the use of having a lead in the polls if your supporters don't vote. Or change their minds?
![[Image: 9f21691b47a204e30d79e54e6b13187b72d23df3.jpg]](http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumimportfiles/9f21691b47a204e30d79e54e6b13187b72d23df3.jpg)
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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