Trump news the third

[robkelk]

The Washington Post: Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House

The CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system, according to officials briefed on the matter.

Intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and others, including Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, according to U.S. officials. Those officials described the individuals as actors known to the intelligence community and part of a wider Russian operation to boost Trump and hurt Clinton’s chances.

“It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected,” said a senior U.S. official briefed on an intelligence presentation made to U.S. senators. “That’s the consensus view.”

In response, the Trump transition team is playing the argumentum ad hominem card:

The Trump transition team dismissed the findings in a short statement issued Friday evening. “These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It’s now time to move on and ‘Make America Great Again,’?” the statement read.

--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Dartz]

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/no ... 83334.html

Is this real?

OK. Even the hint of your biggest adversary trying to influence the election in favour of the candidate should be a fair excuse to have some form of do-over.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[DHBirr]

REAL Real Americans say:

-----
Little-known fact:  "Australia" is actually an abbreviated form.  The land's full name is "AauuuggghhhhAAUUGGHHHHHstralia ."
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[ordnance11]

You wouldn't believe the pick to head the DEA
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Labster]

Yeah.  I saw that pick coming ever since Trump chose Fantastic Mr Fox to run the Department of Henhouse Security (DHS).  "He's fantastic, everyone knows it."
-- ∇×V

[ordnance11]

So Trump was trolling Romney and picked the head of Exxon as SecState. Who has ties with the Russians. And of course he's saying the Russians would not attempt to manipulate the election. This is going to be worse than Dubya's administration.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Bob Schroeck]

It's amazing how the Russians were horrible horrible bad guys, until a Republican has business ties to them. Universal Health Care = socialism = immediate threat to America, but a former KGB thug who longs for the glory days of the Soviet Union is okay with the Republicans.

Like I said, two sets of rules.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[DHBirr]

Not all the Republicans.  There are a few who're demanding a closer look into the election-hack allegations.  And McConnell of all people finally took a semi-principled stand, coming right out and saying flatly, "The Russians are not our friends."
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[ordnance11]

DHBirr wrote:

---

Not all the Republicans.  There are a few who're demanding a closer look into the election-hack allegations.  And McConnell of all people finally took a semi-principled stand, coming right out and saying flatly, "The Russians are not our friends."

Yeah, but how deep are they going to look into it? And note that Paul Ryan is keeping mum. Trump can shoot someone outside his hotel at high noon (and then commit sodomy at the lobby) and the GOP rank and file will go with it. In return for a free hand to enact a GOP agenda. 
The warning flags Trump are raising right now is this:
1. He does not have a plan to divest his business interests nor the inclination to do so.
2. He selected a mix of former military leaders and big government executives. It's a cabinet that would not had looked out of place in a South American caudillo government. So are these guys going to divest their business interests or not?
3. He seems to think Putin and by extension Russia as the U.S. best friends. Or at least frenemies.
4. He seems to think he does not need intelligence briefings. Even with all the intelligence we gather, we still get blindsided. Now I really expect us to get into a gratuitous war.

Now, if any of the folks who voted for Trump has an opposite side to what I just raised, now is the time to speak up.  

  
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[robkelk]

2. He selected a mix of former military leaders and big government executives. It's a cabinet that would not had looked out of place in a South American caudillo government. So are these guys going to divest their business interests or not?

This might be a useful term for you to use, sooner rather than later: http://www.parli.ca/corporate-welfare-bums/
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ordnance11]

robkelk wrote:

---

ordnance11 wrote:

---

2. He selected a mix of former military leaders and big government executives. It's a cabinet that would not had looked out of place in a South American caudillo government. So are these guys going to divest their business interests or not?

This might be a useful term for you to use, sooner rather than later: http://www.parli.ca/corporate-welfare-bums/

Who was it that said corporations are people too?
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Bob Schroeck]

The Supreme Court
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[ordnance11]

Michael Moore predicts Trump won't take the oath of office?
I guess Article 3 of the 20th amendment goes into effect.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Skyfire2020]

A couple of alternative views on the Russian allegations

First were the DNC emails leaked rather than hacked? http://www.prisonplanet.com/former-uk-a ... ssian.html

Secondary is this Putin M.O? No-one disputes Putin interferes in foreign elections but is leaking his emails his style? Putin poisoning Clinton I'd believe. Putin keeping the emails and blackmailing Clinton I'd believe, but publishing the emails and trusting in a free and fair vote to give the result he wants? http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/opinions/ ... d-douglas/.

Putin is many things. Subtle isn't one of them. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -look.html

Mark

[robkelk]

The alternate views depend on one possibly-faulty assumption: that Putin wanted Trump to become President.

If Putin wanted to say "your electoral process is as bad as mine," then what he did makes perfect sense.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ordnance11]

robkelk wrote:

---

The alternate views depend on one possibly-faulty assumption: that Putin wanted Trump to become President.

If Putin wanted to say "your electoral process is as bad as mine," then what he did makes perfect sense.

My take is that Putin wanted chaos to weaken Clinton once she was elected. I do not believe that any of the russian intelligence services had Trump winning in their middle case scenarios. I had been hearing from GOP mouthpieces that Trump would had won even anyway. But given he won Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida by 80,000 votes total the suspicion is already there. Unspoken, but still there. And Trump's histronincs about it only increases the suspicion. He is going to do something brash and possibly dangerous once he gets inaugurated. If only to prove that he didn't need help from the russians to win.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Bob Schroeck]

Trump trying to call winning the electoral college with a below-majority popular vote a "landslide" ties into that, too. He genuinely seems unable to cope with not having won unanimously -- or having any doubt thrown on the legitimacy of his win. He's obsessed with looking more legitimate than legitimate. I recall reading an article during the campaign that pointed out this was a pattern throughout his entire life, that he'd been repeatedly trying to "prove himself" or gain entry to some social group or another that he had been excluded from -- one case in point was being a developer from the Boroughs trying to get the respect of the Manhattan upper class.

I half expect him to crack at some point and issue an Executive Order requiring all American citizens to love him.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[DHBirr]

Trump Jong Il.
Edit:  Andy Borowitz breaks the latest on Trump and intelligence reports.  Warning:  SATIRE.  If you are credulous, your head may explode.

In what Donald Trump’s transition-team members are calling a further example of international coöperation, Russian President Vladimir Putin has agreed to receive daily U.S. intelligence briefings in the place of the President-elect.

So the Russians are our friends ... or at least the Donald's friends....
-----
No, it ISN'T what it is!
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[Skyfire2020]

As the old joke goes - What do you call a bear with a machine gun? Sir.

The question isn't whether we do what Russia wants, its whether we surrender quietly or take a massive beating first. I've no wish to see London under Russian occupation but if Putin decides to march across Europe he would smash NATO and EU forces and the only alternative is a scorched earth policy of launching Nukes and seeing the country destroyed rather than captured. I doubt Alaska would do any better either.

Besides, the elite will never allow trump to have his own policies as president any more than they will allow Britain to actually leave the E.U. Either Trump agrees to be a sock puppet or he will be prevented from taking office. If you aren't bought and paid for you don't get in. http://conservativedailypost.com/6-rep ... wiki-leak/

To quote Billy Connolly (A Scottish Comedian) “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.”

So where do you get politicians from? The answer is make it community service. It punishes the criminals and they can't be any worse than the current people in charge.
Mark

[robkelk]

...

To quote Billy Connolly (A Scottish Comedian) “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.”

So where do you get politicians from? The answer is make it community service. It punishes the criminals and they can't be any worse than the current people in charge.

They you have the issue of people doing things thay don't want to do, so things get done in a slipshod, half-assed manner if they get done at all. At least politicians want the job.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[DHBirr]

H.L. Mencken had an idea, which H. Beam Piper turned into the science fiction novel Lone Star Planet (alternate title A Planet for Texans):  make killing or otherwise harming a politician a crime ONLY if it can be proven in court that he hadn't done anything rotten enough to justify being killed, beaten up, what have you, by one or more angry citizens.  As the book's narrator/protagonist put it, under that system "what is at law a trial of the accused is, in substance, a trial of his victim."  
A trial was shown in which the judges not only set the killer free but praised and thanked him for his patriotic actions — except one judge said he'd killed the politician too quickly and painlessly for what he'd done (tried to set up an income tax, the fiend!)....

There are plenty of times nowadays when that strikes me as a very good system of "political justice" to adopt.
Edit:  Yes, I know such an arrangement would be abused forty ways from Sunday.  But the thought of the bloodsuckers in fear for their verminous lives ... errrr, excuse me, I mean "putting a gentle, whimsical scare into our wise and dedicated legislative and executive branches" ... really appeals to me in my angriest moments.
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[Black Aeronaut]

DHBirr wrote:

---

H.L. Mencken had an idea, which H. Beam Piper turned into the science fiction novel Lone Star Planet (alternate title A Planet for Texans):  make killing or otherwise harming a politician a crime ONLY if it can be proven in court that he hadn't done anything rotten enough to justify being killed, beaten up, what have you, by one or more angry citizens.  As the book's narrator/protagonist put it, under that system "what is at law a trial of the accused is, in substance, a trial of his victim."  
A trial was shown in which the judges not only set the killer free but praised and thanked him for his patriotic actions — except one judge said he'd killed the politician too quickly and painlessly for what he'd done (tried to set up an income tax, the fiend!)....

... Yeah, I don't think I'll be reading that book.  Cute idea, piss-poor execution.

[ordnance11]

skyfire2020 wrote:

---

As the old joke goes - What do you call a bear with a machine gun? Sir.

The question isn't whether we do what Russia wants, its whether we surrender quietly or take a massive beating first. I've no wish to see London under Russian occupation but if Putin decides to march across Europe he would smash NATO and EU forces and the only alternative is a scorched earth policy of launching Nukes and seeing the country destroyed rather than captured. I doubt Alaska would do any better either.

Besides, the elite will never allow trump to have his own policies as president any more than they will allow Britain to actually leave the E.U. Either Trump agrees to be a sock puppet or he will be prevented from taking office. If you aren't bought and paid for you don't get in. http://conservativedailypost.com/6-rep ... wiki-leak/

To quote Billy Connolly (A Scottish Comedian) “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.”

So where do you get politicians from? The answer is make it community service. It punishes the criminals and they can't be any worse than the current people in charge.
Mark

You may be right except for one fact: Russia isn't a communist state at this point in time, regardless of Putin's wish to be a another Yuri Andropov. They may want their Warsaw Pact back but the other nations won't have it. Russia is still an conscript army and you how that worked in Afghanistan.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Skyfire2020]

My knowledge of world military is only what makes it into the conspiracy sites and what I've just found on Google, but the things that have me worried are the apparent Russian advantages in air defence systems (the S400 SAM system) and the rumours of their secret electronic warfare tech that can turn shut down enemy systems. Worst possible case is Russia shutting down all NATO tech the way the Cylons shut down the colonial forces in the BSG reboot.

But even if the EW weapon is a hoax, the SAM system is a worry. From what I've read, the US still has the better aircraft (F22) and a 3 to 1 advantage in aircraft numbers but Russia has a 2 to 1 advantage in tanks which may well be at least as good as their NATO counterparts. If we can't use NATO air power to wear down the Russian ground forces before they meet our forces, then it won't be pretty for our side.

That being said the closest I've ever got to a tank is playing Valkyria Chronicles so if the people here who know better say the links below are complete hogwash then I've no reason to disagree.

http://fightersweep.com/3414/how-scary ... am-system/
http://allnewspipeline.com/Has_Russia_J ... Future.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _equipment
http://warontherocks.com/2016/04/outnum ... eats-nato/

Mark

[Valles]

Russian tech might or might not be as superior as you're afraid of - My money would say the S-400 might be, but the EMP is nonsense - but in the long run, Russia would be a medium-poor country with ~150 million people trying to face off against, 1, the EU as a whole (and your scenario would get them on the same page), with ~500 million people and, on average, more money and industry per capita, and 2, the US, with 320 million people and, um, enough cash. There's no way Russian tech is that good. Even in the best-case scenario for a conventional war with Russia, they'd be in the same position as the Japanese at the start of WW2 - running wild for six months, and then.

And you can bet Putin knows it.

And then, of course, there's the nuclear brinksmanship game, and nobody wins that one. You can bet Putin knows that, too, even if The Bigot doesn't.
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."