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[Valles]

Speaking of which, that's a linguistic construct that is just too different not to be cool.
Anyway, I've been rereading my sister's Potters, and had a couple of thoughts:
-Hermione's House Elf Protection Front gets faculty backing.
-Snape's home envionment resembles the Dursleys, only not so forgiving. He hated the senior Potter as much because fate seemed to hand him everything Severus had to slave for as for any other reason.
-Snape is, in fact, posessed of a great deal of personal courage.
-And I cannot, under any circumstances, see Doug -not- having fun with the anacronym D.A.D.A. Probably as a running joke.
Blessed be.
-n
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===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Bob Schroeck]

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Hermione's House Elf Protection Front gets faculty backing.

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Yeah, there ought to be somebody on the staff who would back this...

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Snape's home envionment resembles the Dursleys, only not so forgiving. He hated the senior Potter as much because fate seemed to hand him everything Severus had to slave for as for any other reason.

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Hm. Yes, this makes sense. It may just be my perception, but it seems to me that for all their power, many wizarding households don't seem as well off as the average muggle home. There's obviously something wrong about that, but I haven't quite put my finger on what.

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Snape is, in fact, posessed of a great deal of personal courage.

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Despite my dislike of the character, I cannot dispute this at all.

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And I cannot, under any circumstances, see Doug -not- having fun with the anacronym D.A.D.A. Probably as a running joke.

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Believe me, I've had the same thoughts. There are just too many possibilities inherent in the acronym...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Valles]

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Yeah, there ought to be somebody on the staff who would back this...

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And it'd have to be either Doug or Dumbledore... all the other wizarding types are too familiar with house elves to question their conditions.

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Hm. Yes, this makes sense. It may just be my perception, but it seems to me that for all their power, many wizarding households don't seem as well off as the average muggle home. There's obviously something wrong about that, but I haven't quite put my finger on what.

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I didn't quite mean -poor-, although he might well have been - I mean actually -abusive-, which, as far's we've seen, would be extremely unusual in a wizarding family.

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Despite my dislike of the character, I cannot dispute this at all.

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Nobody likes Snape, except maybe Dumbledore. He's nasty because everybody hates him, and everybody hates him because he's nasty.
Anyway, my thought RE: courage would be that Doug misunderstands something, goes off on one of his tears, and eventually gets faced down by, of all people, -Snape-. Moreover, in a way that makes it perfectly clear that Snape was completely outgunned and -knew- -it-.
Blessed be.
-n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Bob Schroeck]

---

And it'd have to be either Doug or Dumbledore...

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Oh, Doug, definitely -- it's certainly his style. And if we give the house elves little tiny guns, and drive some mad, we could have DW2 all over again in miniature!
.
.
.
No?
Oh, well, it was worth a try.
Seriously, yeah, Doug certainly would be troubled by this, maybe even go to Dumbledore (who he will rapidly grow to respect, of course) to ask the big Why.

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I didn't quite mean -poor-, although he might well have been

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Odd. I'm trying to figure out why I interpreted your comment in only that way...

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- I mean actually -abusive-, which, as far's we've seen, would be extremely unusual in a wizarding family.

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I would imagine so, when young wizards' and witches' powers are often quite... imaginative when inadequately controlled and they are under stress. I suspect that the gift of magic is a great leveller in that regard.

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Anyway, my thought RE: courage would be that Doug misunderstands something, goes off on one of his tears, and eventually gets faced down by, of all people, -Snape-. Moreover, in a way that makes it perfectly clear that Snape was completely outgunned and -knew- -it-.

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Yes, that would be quite workable. Although I think I'd better get to work on making it clear that Doug isn't all that unstable and out-of-control... Events in the BGC world have just been, well, stressful...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Valles]

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Odd. I'm trying to figure out why I interpreted your comment in only that way...

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Probably because the only two wizards we've seen who weren't particularly poor (well, aside from Hermione, who never makes much of the fact that a pair of medical professionals must make oodles) were Malfoy and Harry.

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I would imagine so, when young wizards' and witches' powers are often quite... imaginative when inadequately controlled and they are under stress. I suspect that the gift of magic is a great leveller in that regard.

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Cruciatus. Imperious. At least for the sorts as I'd imagine Snape's folks were.

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Yes, that would be quite workable. Although I think I'd better get to work on making it clear that Doug isn't all that unstable and out-of-control... Events in the BGC world have just been, well, stressful...

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Well, obviously the particular provocation would have to be something that not only -pushes- his buttons, but outright -leans- on them. Possibly involving Malfoy, and House Elves.
Blessed be.
-n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Ebony]

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Probably because the only two wizards we've seen who weren't particularly poor (well, aside from Hermione, who never makes much of the fact that a pair of medical professionals must make oodles) were Malfoy and Harry.

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Judging from what I know of the dental profession (which, granted, isn't much), most general dentists don't make that much money. They probably are pretty well off, but they are paying for their daughter to go to an extremely prestigious private school, and the shops on Diagon Alley don't take Pounds Sterling; they take gold.
Ebony the Black Dragon
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
www.lrgames.com
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Probably because the only two wizards we've seen who weren't particularly poor (well, aside from Hermione, who never makes much of the fact that a pair of medical professionals must make oodles) were Malfoy and Harry.

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And that makes me wonder -- what did Harry's parents do to get that huge fortune that's sitting there in Gringott's? Inherit? His mother came from Muggle stock, given his aunt and the things she said; not much chance of a wizarding legacy there. I don't remember if we've ever heard about his father, but if the Potters were particularly wizarding-rich to begin with, surely we'd've heard about it by now. I wonder if this is a future plot point...

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Cruciatus. Imperious. At least for the sorts as I'd imagine Snape's folks were.

---

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Well, obviously the particular provocation would have to be something that not only -pushes- his buttons, but outright -leans- on them. Possibly involving Malfoy, and House Elves.

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Oh, Lucius Malfoy will do that all by himself without the House Elves...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Judging from what I know of the dental profession (which, granted, isn't much), most general dentists don't make that much money. They probably are pretty well off, but they are paying for their daughter to go to an extremely prestigious private school, and the shops on Diagon Alley don't take Pounds Sterling; they take gold.

---

Presumably there's some kind of currency exchange between the two economies, no doubt overseen by the Ministry of Magic.
In any case, though, Hermione still looks well-equipped and clothed, unlike, say, Ron, who is visibly threadbare at times. There can't be too much of a disparity between the two systems.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Ebony]

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In any case, though, Hermione still looks well-equipped and clothed, unlike, say, Ron, who is visibly threadbare at times. There can't be too much of a disparity between the two systems.

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True. She seems pretty solidly middle-class. She also spends a lot more on books than any of the other characters, being the nigh-obsessive-compulsive perfectionist bookworm that she is (I say this in all respect, since I too can fall under that description), so her loose cash may not be as obvious or loose as Harry's (Rowling mostly shows Harry's fortune through his largess to his friends). I suspect that her parents' tax bracket hasn't been explained for the same reasont that Harry's parents' financial surplus hasn't been: it's not important to the story yet.
[edited to add:]
In Ron's case, I don't think his family is as bad off as one might expect. It's major problem is that it is such a very large family, and that's a financial drain at any income level. I'm surprised that Mr. Weasley hasn't taken advantage of the perks that a government job can bring. Certainly, working for the Bureau of Magic Affairs should give him a discount on certain educational expenditures for his children. I know that when I was working for the State of Texas, certain college costs were reduced.
Ebony the Black Dragon
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
www.lrgames.com
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Bob Schroeck]

---

so her loose cash may not be as obvious or loose as Harry's

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Except for those basic Diagon Alley shopping trips, we rarely see Harry with any money; in fact, he seems to avoid dealing with it as much as possible (per end of vol 4).

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I suspect that her parents' tax bracket hasn't been explained for the same reasont that Harry's parents' financial surplus hasn't been: it's not important to the story yet.

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Agreed. I'm trusting that Rowling's got this thought out, though.

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t's major problem is that it is such a very large family, and that's a financial drain at any income level.

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That had occurred to me as I was writing the initial response, but it still seems that they are relatively impoverished even so. If you can trust Lucius Malfoy's comments at the beginning of "Chamber of Secrets", they are noticeably poor.

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I'm surprised that Mr. Weasley hasn't taken advantage of the perks that a government job can bring. Certainly, working for the Bureau of Magic Affairs should give him a discount on certain educational expenditures for his children. I know that when I was working for the State of Texas, certain college costs were reduced.

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Well, it doesn't seem that Hogwart's actually costs anything, at least not to the families of students. Perhaps its the wizarding equivalent of public school. It may well be that the older boys in the Weasley family are getting cost breaks on college-level education, though.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Valles]

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I wonder if this is a future plot point...

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*shrug*

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Oh, Lucius Malfoy will do that all by himself without the House Elves...

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Actually, given their... history... together, I'd expect Snape to let Lucius swing in the breeze.
Draco, on the other hand, is a student, one of his charges, and -NOT- someone he knows for a fact to be an unreformed Death Eater. And he's just as poisonous as Daddy Dearest. Admittedly, it'd take more for him to push Doug that far, but I think the nasty little sumbitch is more than capable of it.
An idea for Lucius: I find myself wondering what Doug looks like when he's gritting his teeth and forcing himself to be polite to someone who he loathes, but can't touch.
Blessed be.
-n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Bob Schroeck]

---

An idea for Lucius: I find myself wondering what Doug looks like when he's gritting his teeth and forcing himself to be polite to someone who he loathes, but can't touch.

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It's certainly worth a subplot, just to show that Doug doesn't always get violent (right away ) with things and people that frustrate and annoy him...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Ebony]

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That had occurred to me as I was writing the initial response, but it still seems that they are relatively impoverished even so. If you can trust Lucius Malfoy's comments at the beginning of "Chamber of Secrets", they are noticeably poor.

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Hmm. Well, the Malfoys have shown time and again that they aren't above taking cheap shots, and Mr. Weasley and Lucius Malfoy both work for the Ministry of Magic Affairs, where they, no doubt, come into competition with each other (proving once again the old joke, "Why are bureaucratic office politics so cutthroat? Because the stakes are so small."). Mr. Weasley (who has a first name, at least by Goblet of Fire, but it escapes me. Edgar?) seems to be pretty good at his job, so I would guess that he and Malfoy have something of a stiff rivalry over funding, recognition, etc. In a limited sense, their rivalry probably parallels Draco and Harry's (and Ron's by extension, although I doubt Draco's arrogance allows him to consider Ron worth anything, despite his obvious work ethic, sense of loyalty, and keen mind (one does not get to be skilled at any type of chess without some smarts)), although Mr. Weasley's lower middle-class manner probably gives Lucius absolute fits when he succeeds.

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Well, it doesn't seem that Hogwart's actually costs anything, at least not to the families of students. Perhaps its the wizarding equivalent of public school. It may well be that the older boys in the Weasley family are getting cost breaks on college-level education, though.

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Hmm. I suppose. I got more of a private school feel from it, but I suppose that's colored by the traditional image of the hermetic mage squirrelled away teaching magic to his apprentices. That and Hogwart's notified Harry of his acceptance in the first book, something that I don't think public schools generally do (my recollection, at least in my academic career, was that I didn't apply to attend my high school, I just went).
Ebony the Black Dragon
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
www.lrgames.com
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[zojojojo]

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Mr. Weasley and Lucius Malfoy both work for the Ministry of Magic Affairs, where they, no doubt, come into competition with each other

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I don't think Lucius actually works... let alone for the Ministry of Magic... In the second book, we find that he was a director/trustee of Hogwarts, but was removed. I think he falls into that annoying category of rich person who has lots of influence over the affairs of state without actually being involved in them directly...

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Hogwart's notified Harry of his acceptance in the first book, something that I don't think public schools generally do

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We know that there are several schools of witchcraft in the world, and I suspect that the only reason you need to apply to Hogwarts (if not the rest) is because it's not for Muggles. I rather doubt that Hermoine's parents applied her, either. I think that the Ministry of Magic watches for such talented children and admits them pro forma, so that they don't cause too much trouble. As for wizarding families, it may just be the country-wide equivalent of a high school...
In the end, I rather suspect that it's a minor plot point and not terribly important to the story...-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[Star Ranger4]

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We know that there are several schools of witchcraft in the world, and I suspect that the only reason you need to apply to Hogwarts (if not the rest) is because it's not for Muggles. I rather doubt that Hermoine's parents applied her, either. I think that the Ministry of Magic watches for such talented children and admits them pro forma, so that they don't cause too much trouble. As for wizarding families, it may just be the country-wide equivalent of a high school...

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This is a very good point. Hogwarts is a school for wizardry, which of course implies that one must have a certain level of magical ability to qualify. All of the other schools we've heard of to date have been on the Euro-mainland. And we've been given hints that uncontrolled sorcery is potentially dangerous, either to the manifestor, or those around him. That would argue to me that Hogwarts would be much like what we call in the US a trade school... you have to have an aptitude for a certain skillset in order to get in, but once in its about like any other pubic school... (NOT!, but this works for where we're going with this) IE that the government (in this case, specifically, the Ministry of Magic, Schools and Licencing department) funds Hogwarts to some extent to provide the wizarding youth with the schooling they need to control and direct their talents...
Of course, the school could also be set up on an "ability to pay" scale, where folks like the Malfoys have to pay a tuition, while the Weasley's, with their very large family which eats well into Weasly Sr's income, would not."I was an Otaku before those kids came along and changed the meaning of the word."
-- HM "Howling Mad" Wilson to more than one team-mate.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Bob Schroeck]

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Well, the Malfoys have shown time and again that they aren't above taking cheap shots,

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True enough.

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got more of a private school feel from it, but I suppose that's colored by the traditional image of the hermetic mage squirrelled away teaching magic to his apprentices.

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There is that, but it's probably more because Rowling intentionally based the entire Hogwarts Experience (now wouldn't that make a great name for a band? "Ladies and Gentlemen -- Harry Potter and the Hogwarts Experience!") um, anyway, Hogwarts is based on the classic English private boarding school. You can certainly find enough examples in films and books for comparison.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Of course, the school could also be set up on an "ability to pay" scale, where folks like the Malfoys have to pay a tuition, while the Weasley's, with their very large family which eats well into Weasly Sr's income, would not.

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I'm not so sure about this. If such a system were in place, I'd pretty much expect the rich pure blood separatists like the Malfoys and their ilk to object to subsidizing (or paying outright for, from another viewpoint) the education of poorer students, many of whom would be Mudbloods. They'd more likely split off and start their own private school; it might be as or more expensive, but they would get to control its course of studies and (just as importantly) its selectivity.
No, the more I think about it, the more I think that Hogwarts and its counterparts are "free" "public" institutions.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[cpt kangarooski]

I think that the best answer is to assume that Hogwart's is the leading wizarding school in the British Isles, but not the only one. There would certainly be squibs in need of an education; it doesn't seem reasonable to expect them to be cast out at a young age to the Muggle world. Filtch certainly wasn't. And only a very small number of students appear to actually go to Hogwart's -- Harry's year has forty or fifty students, and that roughly gibes with the number of teachers, class sizes, length of the Sorting, etc. Which conflicts with the considerable size of the overall Wizarding population.
So perhaps like some other old, prestegious schools, Hogwarts has a legacy system. Certainly it's difficult to imagine Neville getting in based on skill or ability, or the entire Weasley family getting in based on tuition. But people from Muggle families like Hermione would be chosen for such criteria.
And so of course, even though the Purebloods who are into segregation could probably afford to set up their own school, they would infinitely prefer to have the top school in the land, and just kick everyone else out. There don't seem to be that many purely Muggle-born students, so it likely seems a realizable goal. Getting rid of mixed-ancestry students would be a long term project.

[Valles]

Logan said in another thread:

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If an otherwise evil creature is capable of even a little bit of self-deprecating humor, it could be taken as a sign that it is not totally irredeemable.

---

So, what does this suggest? Snape has a sense of humor, too.
I see him, having just been on the recieving end of this incredibly sadistic practical joke, standing in the middle of the great hall covered in feathers and chocolate pudding, picking up this little note out of the middle of the disaster and turning to McGonnagal and saying, "Wombleton sends his regards."
At which point she, and the two thirds of the rest of the faculty who remember what he's talking about just shatter completely - falling down teary eyed laughter.
Blessed be.
-n
(Well of -course- he's the deadpan type.)
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Aleh]

Err... Wombleton? Sorry... I don't remember that name from the books...

[Valles]

Don't bother looking - I just made it up, meaning someone who Snape and McG both knew, the connection of whom to Snape's present predicament is earthshatteringly funny.
Of course, for this to offer the proper insight into Snape's character, it'd almost have to be at Our Dear Potions Master's expense...
Blessed be.
-n
(Who knows? Maybe that kind of thing's happened to Snape before. He seems like the kind of person such merry little devils would think of as a deserving target.)
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Aleh]

Oh. Okay. :-)