Hark! Are those the first harbingers of Chapter Three I spy on the horizon?

[DHBirr]

OK, this is maybe not the best of all possible threads for this post, but none other I saw struck me as more appropriate ... and this isn't worth creating a new thread for.  Thing is, on re-reading I've come up with a few minor quibbles, and I figured if I talk them out here, they won't bother me as much.
First:  Doug hears the name "Voldemort," and immediately assumes it's a nom-de-guerre (against the world), rather than perhaps being the heritage from a pretentious ancestor, to which the present Voldemort decided to live down.  Granted, he's right in this case, but he never seems to have even considered the other option.  One would think M'sieu "Black-Blood" might be more aware of such possibilities.  So if he saw Lord Peter Death Bredon Wimsey's signature, would he sneer at him for being emo?  (It actually rhymes with "teeth," by the way, but the spelling is still there.)
Second:  Hermione thinks that Doug ("Professor Sangnoir!") seems to be knowledgeable about electronics and computers, "if that helmet of his was any indication."  And yet I don't see any reference at this point in the story to his having used the helmet in front of her in any way that would indicate electronics and computers.  There's no mention of the helmet at all when he arrives at Number 12 ... and he's not mentioned as using it the next day, either.  So what did she see, that she already knows it's computerized?  (The bit about playing music with it only comes out from Harry, much later in Chapter 2.)
Edit:  Oops, I'd left out Lord Peter's other middle name. 
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[robkelk]

First: Doug hears the name "Voldemort," and immediately assumes it's a nom-de-guerre (against the world), rather than perhaps being the heritage from a pretentious ancestor, to which the present Voldemort decided to live down. Granted, he's right in this case, but he never seems to have even considered the other option.

Consider what "vol de morte" means in French - why would an ancestor, no matter how pretentious, have taken the name "death of flight"?

("Against the world" is "contre le monde", "face au monde", or "contre tous", depending on how figurative one is being...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[DHBirr]

("Against the world" is "contre le monde", "face au monde", or "contre tous", depending on how figurative one is being...)

I didn't make it properly clear:  when I put that "nom-de-guerre (against the world)," what I meant was that "against the world" was a continuation of the thought, not a translation of the French.  In other words, it's a "name of war -- war against the world."  Sorry.  I thought it was a cool phrasing, but I guess it turned out more confusing than anything else.

Consider what "vol de morte" means in French - why would an ancestor, no matter how pretentious, have taken the name "death of flight"?

"Flight of death" as opposed to "death of flight" is how Doug translated "Voldemort."  But people have, historically, acquired some weird names.  Why did Voldemort take that name?  I'm just saying that Doug assumed the present Voldemort was the pretentious emo type, apparently without considering that he might be the descendant of a previous pretentious emo who originated it.  We know he wasn't -- not for the name, anyway -- but Doug didn't check the possibility.
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Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[Bob Schroeck]

Mm. Valid point. Without realizing it, I'd written author knowledge into Doug's assumptions.

And I'll have to doublecheck the helmet issue, but you may well have a very valid point there, too.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Seraviel]

Also, Voldemort in french could meant quite a few things, take it from a French Speaker. Example :

'Vol' is 'Flight', true, but could also meant theft.

'Mort' is always 'Death', but the phrasing leaves things quite open.

In english, all the following meaning would be valid: Flight of Death, Flight from Death, Theft of Death, Theft from Death. I am personally more partial to Theft of Death as a definition, as it makes more sense in context.

Just my two cents.
-People may die, but ideas are forever. Je suis Charlie.

[Star Ranger4]

I'd argue that since immortality seems to be one of his goals, flight from death makes just as much sense.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, how's this rewrite of the passage in question sound?
"V..." he stammered, apprehension crossing his features.  He
looked around quickly, then leaned forward and almost whispered,
"Voldemort!"
I blinked.  *Vol de mort?* I automatically thought in French. 
"Deathflight"?  Or maybe "Flight of Death", if you had a thing
for overblown drama.  Either way, though, my immediate reaction
was, "really?"  Admittedly, it might well have been his actual
birth name.  Gods know that the English have more than their
share of strange names brought over from France as part of the
Norman Conquest, and just as many more mutated out of terms from
the original Celtic languages of the Isles.  And, hell, my
Freshman year roommate at Princeton had had one of the German
words for "terror" as his last name.  (He was overly fond of
explaining to anyone who would listen that *someone* far back in
his family tree had evidently not been A Nice Man.) 
In this case, though, with what Charlie had already said, there
was only one conclusion I could draw. 
I burst out laughing.  "What is it with so-called dark lords and
their pretentious self-inflicted titles?  I swear, they must all
come up with these things while they're whiny emo teenagers
planning how they're going to revenge themselves on the entire
world for how sucky their childhoods were.  There's no other
explanation for it."  I rolled my eyes.  "'Flight of Death',
indeed.  Give me a goddamned break."
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Ebony]

I was going to say that Doug could throw a Frank Gorshin "Riddle me this...." at Voldemort, should he learn his birth name, but then I remembered that superheroes (and superhero shows) aren't something in the Warriors' World, so even though Doug is old enough to remember the 1968 "Batman" show (and probably meet Gorshin, given his family business), it's not something that would have existed.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Bob Schroeck]

In reviewing the Hermione line, I have to agree, there's no way I can justify her knowing about the helmet without writing in something a bit more than "she'd stolen a look at it and..." At least not and not have people complaining. I still have to figure out what to do instead, though.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Could Doug have been listening to music one evening? Hermonie should be able to recognize an MP3 player, at the least...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

It's possible, and something I had considered; basically the line is from the morning after Doug's arrival at 12 Grimmauld. But I'm not sure just playing music is enough to clue her in to the extent that the line suggests she is.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[DHBirr]

Ebony wrote:

---

I was going to say that Doug could throw a Frank Gorshin "Riddle me this...." at Voldemort, should he learn his birth name, but then I remembered that superheroes (and superhero shows) aren't something in the Warriors' World, so even though Doug is old enough to remember the 1968 "Batman" show (and probably meet Gorshin, given his family business), it's not something that would have existed.

Given that his travels now justify him possessing music that's never been written in Warrior's World, and he's actually shown wearing a t-shirt with the Superman logo, it's possible that somewhere along the way, someone showed him some episodes of the Batman show, perhaps on grounds that it's "great campy fun," or words to that effect.  So "Riddle me this..." isn't outright impossible.  It depends on whether he's still in a wisecracking mood, or thinks it'd make good psychological warfare, when he encounters Voldemort.

Could Doug have been listening to music one evening? Hermonie should be able to recognize an MP3 player, at the least...

She has the thought about him knowing computers the morning after he arrived at Number 12, so there's only one evening to play with.  Perhaps, on the other hand, Mr. Weasley did, between chapters, draw Doug into the discussion of electrics that he suggested at the end of Chapter 1, and Hermione overheard part of it -- including, say, Doug politely correcting Arthur a time or three on matters more electronics-related than electric ... when none of the other adults had a clue Arthur had been mistaken.  

That last clause might be a key point:  that Sirius, Remus, and perhaps Charlie have an at least somewhat better understanding of the subject than Mr. Weasley does (hinted at by Lupin's saying that Arthur "doesn't understand [Muggle technology] at all"), but the strange new professor is clearly even more -- much more -- up to speed.
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[Cobalt Greywalker]

Hum... Is the cliche that electronics don't work around magic in use (i.e. subverted to heck)?

In any case DHBirr said what I was going to say, and better than my idea.

[robkelk]

Doug took his helmet and motorcycle to Hogwarts, so... yes, the "electronics don't work around magic" trope is completely blown out of the water here.

(The idea that electronics don't work around magic assumes technology and magic are incompatible. Doug is, amongst other things, a technomage - he is a counter-example to that theory.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Hazard]

robkelk wrote:

---

Doug took his helmet and motorcycle to Hogwarts, so... yes, the "electronics don't work around magic" trope is completely blown out of the water here.

(The idea that electronics don't work around magic assumes technology and magic are incompatible. Doug is, amongst other things, a technomage - he is a counter-example to that theory.)

To be fair, the idea that magic and technology don't exactly mix are both true and false around Doug and his motorcycle. His motorcycle because, well, Divine Artifact created by Skuld, and as such the answer to the question 'is it magic or technology' is 'yes.'
As for Doug, IIRC more complicated technology fares worse in his chaos field than simpler technology simply because it's more complicated and there are far more potential failure points for his chaos field to exploit and turn whatever is inside it into something not working, but everything outside that field is pretty much fine. Which makes me wonder, does he prefer voice input for electronics rather than a touchscreen or a remote? I mean, his chaos field has a limited range and as long as he can keep some distance between the input device and himself there is nearly no way the chaos field can interfere.

[DHBirr]

Okay, how's this rewrite of the passage in question sound?

I should've said this earlier, but the rewrite looks fine to me, at least.  You provided richer detail than my simple, "people have, historically, acquired some weird names."  This is good.  And the college roomie named "Terror" is an amusing continuity joke, Herr Schroeck.
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[LynnInDenver]

Hazard wrote:

---

As for Doug, IIRC more complicated technology fares worse in his chaos field than simpler technology simply because it's more complicated and there are far more potential failure points for his chaos field to exploit and turn whatever is inside it into something not working, but everything outside that field is pretty much fine. Which makes me wonder, does he prefer voice input for electronics rather than a touchscreen or a remote? I mean, his chaos field has a limited range and as long as he can keep some distance between the input device and himself there is nearly no way the chaos field can interfere.

As I recall, his bigger problem is focusing the field when he's working at building tech, if he doesn't want it to come saddled with some sort of magical enhancement when he's finished. He built his helmet, and it comes with a few benefits because of allowing the enhancement to happen, like being tougher. His field doesn't normally seem to affect technological devices that he handles.
 
--

"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor

[Shepherd]

robkelk wrote:

---

Could Doug have been listening to music one evening? Hermonie should be able to recognize an MP3 player, at the least...

Actually, Hermione most definitely would not recognize an MP3 player. They weren't being produced until 1997/8, which coincides with Deathly Hallows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_media_player). If she heard his helmet playing music, she'd likely either decide that it included a build-in radio (at least until she realized there were no commercial breaks and he could choose songs at the touch of a button) or that it operated via magic, since the shape of a biker helmet shouldn't be able to fit a CD or cassette tape.
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV

[Jorlem]

robkelk wrote:

---

Could Doug have been listening to music one evening? Hermonie should be able to recognize an MP3 player, at the least...

Doesn't this take place before mp3 players were on the market?
Also, regarding the tech vs magic thing, I think it is just Hogwarts that canonically disrupts electronics.  If it was magic in general, what would Diagon Alley do to London?
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[Bob Schroeck]

Cobalt Greywalker wrote:

---

Hum... Is the cliche that electronics don't work around magic in use (i.e. subverted to heck)?

The setting rule is that electronics canonically don't work  (as has been emphasized already) at Hogwarts. 
Then again, Doug's helmet lives in one of the more powerful magical fields you can find anywhere.  Plus, "magic+technology=no mixy" is one of those axioms that define a magical model.  Doug's only got a vague idea of what kind of model his instinctive/unconscious magic works on, but it's pretty clear that it has no problems at all with technology.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

DHBirr wrote:

---

Given that his travels now justify him possessing music that's never been written in Warrior's World, and he's actually shown wearing a t-shirt with the Superman logo, it's possible that somewhere along the way, someone showed him some episodes of the Batman show, perhaps on grounds that it's "great campy fun," or words to that effect.  So "Riddle me this..." isn't outright impossible.  It depends on whether he's still in a wisecracking mood, or thinks it'd make good psychological warfare, when he encounters Voldemort

That's a point I hadn't considered. Hm. It all depends on how things evolve as I write the ending and what kind of mood Doug ends up in by the time he faces Voldemort. I know at one point he's going to be in "scare the baddies to death" mode, but that's not necessarily the whole fight...

DHBirr wrote:

---

She has the thought about him knowing computers the morning after he arrived at Number 12, so there's only one evening to play with. Perhaps, on the other hand, Mr. Weasley did, between chapters, draw Doug into the discussion of electrics that he suggested at the end of Chapter 1, and Hermione overheard part of it -- including, say, Doug politely correcting Arthur a time or three on matters more electronics-related than electric ... when none of the other adults had a clue Arthur had been mistaken.

That last clause might be a key point: that Sirius, Remus, and perhaps Charlie have an at least somewhat better understanding of the subject than Mr. Weasley does (hinted at by Lupin's saying that Arthur "doesn't understand [Muggle technology] at all"), but the strange new professor is clearly even more -- much more -- up to speed.

Mm.  Very good idea.  In fact, I think I'll use that, or at least a variation on it.  Thank you!
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

DHBirr wrote:

---

I should've said this earlier, but the rewrite looks fine to me, at least.  You provided richer detail than my simple, "people have, historically, acquired some weird names."  This is good.  And the college roomie named "Terror" is an amusing continuity joke, Herr Schroeck.

Thank you.  And it seemed like an obvious reference to make, joking on my own name, since the FAQ has had that little detail in it for years.
As for other interpretations of "vol de mort", I'm adding a gloss to the Concordance about them.  "Vol" for theft is more idiomatic than literal, but you never know what Rowling had in mind.  And I don't really think Riddle's megalomania would let him name himself "flight from death" -- it would be too much like admitting a weakness.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[DeputyJones]

So "Riddle me this..." isn't outright impossible.  It depends on whether he's
still in a wisecracking mood, or thinks it'd make good psychological warfare,
when he encounters Voldemort.

Doug (to Moldywart): "Riddle me this, riddle me that - who's afraid of the pale, emo prat?"

[Bob Schroeck]

Heh. Snarky doggerel will always win my heart.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Norgarth]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

As for other interpretations of "vol de mort", I'm adding a gloss to the Concordance about them.  "Vol" for theft is more idiomatic than literal, but you never know what Rowling had in mind.  And I don't really think Riddle's megalomania would let him name himself "flight from death" -- it would be too much like admitting a weakness.

Sometimes, Rowling doesn't know what she had in mind.  8P
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin