New Pottermore Stuff

[Jorlem]

Hey, just thought I'd let you know that the next several chapters on Pottermore just went live.  There isn't a ton of new info, but there is some.  The most substantially new information is on magical portraits (for instance, the interactivity of the portrait depends on the power of the wizard or witch painted, not the painter's skill.  Also, the Hogwarts Headmasters trained their portraits before their deaths.), and there are also some previously unknown tidbits about the Maurader's Map and the Firebolt (such as the name of the tracking spell involved in the Map, the Homonculous Charm, and that parts of a Firebolt are made by Goblins, respectively). 
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[Jorlem]

In case anyone is interested, the last few chapters of PoA are now live on Pottermore (along with a site redesign). The new sections give some info on the Fidelius Charm (most notably, that the Secret can only be revealed voluntarily, no amount of torture or mind control can force the Secret Keeper to reveal the Secret), werewolves, Time Turners (no going back more than about five hours, or you run the risk of ripping apart reality, and will almost certainly get yourself killed), the Patronus Charm (one of the most ancient spells known, and wizards are still trying to figure out how it works, among other things), and a fairly detailed bio for Lupin.
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[Bob Schroeck]

I do think I need to visit that site and get a membership if needed...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bluemage]

Jorlem wrote:

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...the Secret can only be revealed voluntarily, no amount of torture or mind control can force the Secret Keeper to reveal the Secret...

...which begs somebody to ask why the Potters switched Secret Keepers at all.  Wasn't the original explanation that they were using Sirius as a decoy, so that V wouldn't know to capture Pettigrew?
If the Secret Keeper can't be forced, why in all the layers of the Abyss wouldn't they use the most loyal friend James had?

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[robkelk]

Asks this poster, busy reading, wondering o'er all this lore,
Where does one find Pottermore?

(no apologies to E.A. Poe)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Hazard]

Because the Secret Keeper getting killed might result in the Fidelius weakening or collapsing and Sirius would be both an obvious target and actively involved in the Order's battles?

With that in mind it makes sense to pick Pettigrew, he's on noone's radar, just some pathetic little wretch trying not to get killed.

[Bob Schroeck]

robkelk wrote:

---

Asks this poster, busy reading, wondering o'er all this lore,
Where does one find Pottermore?
(no apologies to E.A. Poe)

www.pottermore.com, Rob.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Asks this poster, busy reading, wondering o'er all this lore,
Where does one find Pottermore?

(no apologies to E.A. Poe)

www.pottermore.com, Rob.

D'oh!

Thanks, Bob.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

You're welcome!
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Jorlem]

Hazard wrote:

---

Because the Secret Keeper getting killed might result in the Fidelius weakening or collapsing and Sirius would be both an obvious target and actively involved in the Order's battles?

With that in mind it makes sense to pick Pettigrew, he's on noone's radar, just some pathetic little wretch trying not to get killed.

If the Secret Keeper gets killed, then everyone who knows the Secret becomes a Secret Keeper.  If the Order knew that there was a spy, but not who it was, then, assuming the Order was told the Secret, the Keeper's death would have freed the spy to give the information to Voldemort.
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[classicdrogn]

Hm, it appears I'm back to a Potterverse loathing stage, I've been trying to phrase a sociable response to this stuff for ten minutes or so and it's just... nope.

Insert wizards are idiots rant #N+1 here.

--

Idea men are like snack bags of novelty flavored popcorn, even if you like the taste at most you note the name on the bag before moving on. In the country of idea men, the engineer is too damn busy getting things done to be a king to those idjits.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Bob Schroeck]

Heh.  On the subject of the Fidelius, a bit of unplaced, first-drafty material from the story:

In other news, my research into the mechanism of the Fidelius
finally paid off.  It was simple, elegant, and totally, completely
off the wall.  It had to have been created by either someone with
a grasp of computer programming, or else a complete lunatic.

It all comes down to the Akashic Records.  Now, some will tell
you that the Records are a metaphor for the wisdom of the ages.
Others will tell you that they are literally real, a mystic
encyclopedia logging the existence, lifespan and relationships of
every object (both living and not) in the universe.  As with many
things both magical and not, *both* views are true -- depending
on your frame of reference.

The Fidelius treated them as literally real -- and as though they
were set up like a database management system, where records are
linked to each other through a series of pointers.  The spell
creates a new pointer from the designated Secret Keeper to the
item, concept or whatnot that it is cast to hide.  It then looks
for everything else in the Records which also points to the
secret, and nulls those pointers out.  This task it accomplishes
quickly through Similarity effects which use the fundamental
shared identity of the pointers to gather them together and act
upon them as a single entity.

Once that's done, the Secret Keeper becomes the only pointer to
the secret.  He can share the secret, but what's happening is
he's actually sharing a redirected link through his record to the
secret's record.  The relay through him is unnoticeable, and
keeps the secret at one remove.

The magic maintaining this "alias" effect also employs a nasty
little hack that uses the Akashic Record for anyone he tells the
secret to as a sudo for root access to that person -- sort of
like knowing a True Name -- and directly applies an overriding
compulsion that prevents them from sharing the secret.  That was
the part I wanted to circumvent.  Like most security holes it was
obvious in retrospect, and I wanted to plug it before some other
clever asshole came up with the idea to use the Records as a
back door to anyone they wanted to hit -- like me! -- with a
Contagion-based attack.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

What's the reference for the Akashic Records, Bob? Is that your creation?

[Stephen Mann]

Nope, the idea of the Akashic Record goes back quite a way in Asian/Middle Eastern philosopy.

[Bluemage]

...you're giving me an idea for a FSN/Exalted crossover involving the Root, as managed by Yu-Shan.
Stop it.  I already have enough project.

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[Shepherd]

Stephen Mann wrote:

---

Nope, the idea of the Akashic Record goes back quite a way in Asian/Middle Eastern philosopy.

White Wolf's old Mage: the Ascension game had a group of mages known as the Akashic Brotherhood whose powers were accessed through meditation/martial arts/etc. One of the big perks of joining their Tradition was access to the Akashic Record.
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV

[Jorlem]

If I'm reading that right, the 'hack' is the bit that ensures people who know the Secret, aside from the Secret Keeper, cannot tell the Secret. Correct? So, wouldn't removing or 'patching' that make it so anyone who was told the Secret could freely retell it?.

(Also, the impression I had was that it wasn't something like a compulsion that stopped people from leaking the Secret, but that it somehow simply became flat-out impossible to do so.)
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[Bob Schroeck]

Jorlem wrote:

---

If I'm reading that right, the 'hack' is the bit that ensures people who know the Secret, aside from the Secret Keeper, cannot tell the Secret. Correct? So, wouldn't removing or 'patching' that make it so anyone who was told the Secret could freely retell it?.

(Also, the impression I had was that it wasn't something like a compulsion that stopped people from leaking the Secret, but that it somehow simply became flat-out impossible to do so.)

The following assumes a) Doug is right, b) the analogy to a DBMS is exact enough, and c) this gets used in the story.
The "hack" is using the Akashic Records of the people told the secret as backdoors to them. 
The Fidelius uses this backdoor to essentially "rewrite" the reality of each person so that they are incapable of revealing the secret. 
Someone else could use the same hack to apply perfect mind-control, permanent transformation, or simply flip the "alive/dead" bit on the person's Record.
If Doug blocks the backdoor, can he then tell the secret?  He'd have to undo the changes to his Record first, assuming he could even figure out what they were.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Pyeknu]

Stephen Mann wrote:

---

Nope, the idea of the Akashic Record goes back quite a way in Asian/Middle Eastern philosopy.

Ah, thanks, Stephen

[Jorlem]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Jorlem wrote:

---

If I'm reading that right, the 'hack' is the bit that ensures people who know the Secret, aside from the Secret Keeper, cannot tell the Secret. Correct? So, wouldn't removing or 'patching' that make it so anyone who was told the Secret could freely retell it?.

(Also, the impression I had was that it wasn't something like a compulsion that stopped people from leaking the Secret, but that it somehow simply became flat-out impossible to do so.)

The following assumes a) Doug is right, b) the analogy to a DBMS is exact enough, and c) this gets used in the story.
The "hack" is using the Akashic Records of the people told the secret as backdoors to them. 
The Fidelius uses this backdoor to essentially "rewrite" the reality of each person so that they are incapable of revealing the secret. 
Someone else could use the same hack to apply perfect mind-control, permanent transformation, or simply flip the "alive/dead" bit on the person's Record.
If Doug blocks the backdoor, can he then tell the secret?  He'd have to undo the changes to his Record first, assuming he could even figure out what they were.

The way the exposition is presented, though, it gives the impression that this is how the spell works in this fic.  Part of that is from this being a first draft, but I think a bigger part of it is coming from the multitude of fics that define different mechanics for how certain spells work, and use exposition like this to convey that information to the reader.  So, when I read this, I automatically filed the computer analogy under 'how this works', without giving much thought to the chance that the exposition could be wrong.  It's a bad habit, but an easy one to fall into.
Also, by whatever point in the story this might come up in, would Doug have found out about the spells that can make places Unplottable?
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[Bluemage]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Jorlem wrote:

---

If I'm reading that right, the 'hack' is the bit that ensures people who know the Secret, aside from the Secret Keeper, cannot tell the Secret. Correct? So, wouldn't removing or 'patching' that make it so anyone who was told the Secret could freely retell it?.

(Also, the impression I had was that it wasn't something like a compulsion that stopped people from leaking the Secret, but that it somehow simply became flat-out impossible to do so.)

The following assumes a) Doug is right, b) the analogy to a DBMS is exact enough, and c) this gets used in the story.
The "hack" is using the Akashic Records of the people told the secret as backdoors to them. 
The Fidelius uses this backdoor to essentially "rewrite" the reality of each person so that they are incapable of revealing the secret. 

You're also assuming d) Magic works according to logical rules of effort and/or e) Wizards are logical.
The Fidelius may very well create a list of people who aren't allowed to know the secret, add pointers to everybody in the world except the Secret Keeper to it, and let the SK take people off the list.
Can't remember if the spell being difficult is canon or not.  If so, then being engineered back-asswards would explain why.

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[Bob Schroeck]

I like that, Bluemage -- it's a classic "that's so crazy it just might work!".
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[ECSNorway]

My own issue is that it nulls the pointers of people not in on the secret. That doesn't seem right, since once the Fidelius is broken people can remember what was secret, all of a sudden. Redirecting them to Null destroys that information that clearly is not destroyed.

My thought is that it redirects -all- pointers through the Secret Keeper, whose decision "tell or no tell" creates a filter effect of whether or not that pointer gets passed on to the actual Secret.

It also makes being the Secret Keeper that much more dangerous, if you have access to an individual who used to know the Secret, whether or not they're allowed through the filter or not - they create a contagion link to the Keeper by way of it.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Bob Schroeck]

Mm. Yeah, that makes a bit more sense.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[ECSNorway]

It also might explain why D'dore didn't want to be the Secret Keeper, if you're assuming non-malicious motives on his part.

He might -know- that SK status can be used to attack someone, and might assume Moldyshorts knows as well... and doesn't want to take the risk. Peter and Sirius, on the other hand, are expendable...
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.